Trial 1: Broncos vs Cowboys

[Renegade]

yes, it makes me right, and who doesn't love being right?

 

[Porthoz]

I've seen all of Kahu's 13 NRL games on the wing or in the centres. They've been solid. With some highlights here and there.

Certainly not proof he's going to be a great NRL fullback, or even the best fullback option in our squad.

In other words, you have barely seen him play, and you have never seen him play fullback.

 

[Foordy]

yes, it makes me right, and who doesn't love being right?

depends on the statement ...

 

[Renegade]

I was hoping for a bigger fish but I'm slack to keep the rods out long enough for them to come.

As you have alluded to many times b4l, a forum is a place where one can put forward their opinion.

Subsbligh and I obviously share a similar opinion about the ability of Kahu, in the limited amount we have seen him.

I would prefer to be wrong about my opinion as I am a supporter of the club first and foremost, but I don't like to buy into blind hype and Kahu has done nothing in his limited time that makes me go wow, he's some player that's unfortunately been held back by injury. he appears to be an average player that if anything, has enhanced his rep amongst some people as a result of his multiple injury stints.

if you can point out where he's done anything remarkable, without mentioning his 1) injuries or 2) his supposed unstoppable form in high school, i'm all ears.

 

[subsbligh]

What Porthoz is referring to is the fact that nearly all of Kahu's career prior to his NRL has been played at fullback.

I was a handy footballer at high school as well.

EDIT: Actually, 3rd grade isn't really anyhting to write home about. But you understand my point.

 

[subsbligh]

In other words, you have barely seen him play, and you have never seen him play fullback.

Exactly.

And I watch a lot of NRL games.

 

[subsbligh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsxKkjyYkx0

In trying to find some "why I think kahu is bad" videos, I found this video, (at 2:20) which captures all the badness and lolz of Maranta

 

[subsbligh]

and again at 3:40

 

[Porthoz]

I was hoping for a bigger fish but I'm slack to keep the rods out long enough for them to come.

As you have alluded to many times b4l, a forum is a place where one can put forward their opinion.

Subsbligh and I obviously share a similar opinion about the ability of Kahu, in the limited amount we have seen him.

I would prefer to be wrong about my opinion as I am a supporter of the club first and foremost, but I don't like to buy into blind hype and Kahu has done nothing in his limited time that makes me go wow, he's some player that's unfortunately been held back by injury. he appears to be an average player that if anything, has enhanced his rep amongst some people as a result of his multiple injury stints.

if you can point out where he's done anything remarkable, without mentioning his 1) injuries or 2) his supposed unstoppable form in high school, i'm all ears.

How does one determine whether a player coming through is good?

Of course they have to prove themselves in the highest grade, and Kahu hasn't (had time) yet, but like Milford or Jayden Nikorima coming through the ranks have high praises, Kahu is more than just a handy player, based on the many games I've seen him play, be it at Keebra Park or the NYC. Even in FG, he has already shown glimpses of what he's capable of.

Now, it's fine for you and sub to have doubts, and no one is selling you anything, so you don't have to buy into anything either.

But you also certainly don't need to start bagging him because of what you haven't seen, much less take a dig at those who have, think highly of him, and have hope he will fulfil his potential.

 

[Porthoz]

and again at 3:40

What about Oates being awesome in the 3/4 line?

 

[subsbligh]

What about Oates being awesome in the 3/4 line?

Yeah he is friggin awesome.

 

[Splinter]

I was a handy footballer at high school as well.

EDIT: Actually, 3rd grade isn't really anyhting to write home about. But you understand my point.

Depends how many years you spent in 3rd grade:takdir:

 

[Renegade]

How does one determine whether a player coming through is good?

By standing out in the limited opportunities they have, especially as a back. Most young backs will do something special in their first 20 games that makes you go hmm, he's worth persevering with. Sailor did, Tuquiri did, Yow Yeh did, Boyd did. I'm sure if you look at most good-to-premier backs in the comp, they've all had at least one moment in their first dozen or so games that makes you go hmm.

Kahu hasn't. I challenge you to list one thing he's done at FG level in the limited time he's had underlines this supposed potential he has.

My point is, I don't think he's a bad player, just that he's nothing more than average. That's why I'm asking for proof from others, because others are the ones rating him as this supposed next big thing for us when i don't see it.

Of course they have to prove themselves in the highest grade, and Kahu hasn't (had time) yet, but like Milford or Jayden Nikorima coming through the ranks have high praises, Kahu is more than just a handy player, based on the many games I've seen him play, be it at Keebra Park or the NYC. Even in FG, he has already shown glimpses of what he's capable of.

Milford has shown much, much more than Kahu has, there's no point comparing the two. While the Nikiorima boys look good in u20, most have kept a grounded perspective on them and stated let's see how they go in Q Cup etc before waxing lyrically about them.

But you also certainly don't need to start bagging him because of what you haven't seen, much less take a dig at those who have, think highly of him, and have hope he will fulfil his potential.

What a ridiculous statement. I'm not bagging him on the basis of what I haven't seen - I'm simply putting forward an opinion on what I have seen, and what I have seen of him, at the only level that actually matters (first grade), he's done nothing imo to justify anything more than being a solid player.

As for bagging out others? Please cite where I've bagged out others, unless of course claiming others rate him more highly than I do and asking for examples that can correlate with their elevated opinion of him is bagging others, in which case harden the **** up.

 

[Porthoz]

By standing out in the limited opportunities they have, especially as a back. Most young backs will do something special in their first 20 games that makes you go hmm, he's worth persevering with. Sailor did, Tuquiri did, Yow Yeh did, Boyd did. I'm sure if you look at most good-to-premier backs in the comp, they've all had at least one moment in their first dozen or so games that makes you go hmm.

Kahu hasn't. I challenge you to list one thing he's done at FG level in the limited time he's had underlines this supposed potential he has.

My point is, I don't think he's a bad player, just that he's nothing more than average. That's why I'm asking for proof from others, because others are the ones rating him as this supposed next big thing for us when i don't see it.

Hmm... my question was about how one determines if someone is good enough to get to first grade in the first place.

He never had a chance to have any sort of continuity in FG, which makes it harder to show something and stay in the retina, especially when returning from devastating injuries such as ACL.
Even then, in the 13 games he played, he certainly showed more than most guys we currently have in our backline. Just have a look at the highlights from the final games of last season. If you don't see it, we just view the game differently.

Milford has shown much, much more than Kahu has, there's no point comparing the two. While the Nikiorima boys look good in u20, most have kept a grounded perspective on them and stated let's see how they go in Q Cup etc before waxing lyrically about them.

Yeah, you really haven't been paying attention, have you? I'm not talking about first grade, I'm talking about coming through the ranks, where Milford for example, was highly regarded before EVER playing a FG game or even ISC/NSW cup.

With that, let's get this straight: I'm not saying Kahu is at Milford's level, but in terms of skill and talent, he's one of the best FB's I've seen coming through.
Will that translate into FG? I'm not sure, and I'm not guaranteeing it will, but I hope so! Is that ok with you?

What a ridiculous statement. I'm not bagging him on the basis of what I haven't seen - I'm simply putting forward an opinion on what I have seen, and what I have seen of him, at the only level that actually matters (first grade), he's done nothing imo to justify anything more than being a solid player.

As for bagging out others? Please cite where I've bagged out others, unless of course claiming others rate him more highly than I do and asking for examples that can correlate with their elevated opinion of him is bagging others, in which case harden the **** up.

By the way you answered, I'd say you're the one who needs the cement spoon. Either that, or it's just a matter of comprehension.

I've explained the reason why I (and others) see potential in him, in what in my case would be at least 50 or 60 games I've seen him play. I don't have or need to convince you of anything, and it's my prerogative to think that injuries and his career coming through is relevant in my assessment.

You saw a whole 13 games between injuries in a rudderless team, and because you apparently didn't see him do anything, it's enough to climb on that high horse.
Careful you don't break anything when you inevitably fall off...

 

[Renegade]

Hmm... my question was about how one determines if someone is good enough to get to first grade in the first place.

What's your point? Plenty of players excel at a lower grade and fail to make the step up or simply go on to become average players. Excelling at a lower grade is no benchmark for success.

He never had a chance to have any sort of continuity in FG, which makes it harder to show something and stay in the retina, especially when returning from devastating injuries such as ACL.
Even then, in the 13 games he played, he certainly showed more than most guys we currently have in our backline. Just have a look at the highlights from the final games of last season. If you don't see it, we just view the game differently.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether a meteorite falls on him. It would be unfortunate for him to be cruelled by injuries and be a shadow of whatever alleged potential he had/has, but that's professional sport. Make the most of the opportunities provided. He hasn't done that. I remember one game where he played well towards the end of last year, think it was against the Cowboys. By all reports he wasn't exactly lighting up Qld cup either, despite playing there for most of the season.

Yeah, you really haven't been paying attention, have you? I'm not talking about first grade, I'm talking about coming through the ranks, where Milford for example, was highly regarded before EVER playing a FG game or even ISC/NSW cup.

With that, let's get this straight: I'm not saying Kahu is at Milford's level, but in terms of skill and talent, he's one of the best FB's I've seen coming through.
Will that translate into FG? I'm not sure, and I'm not guaranteeing it will, but I hope so! Is that ok with you?

Sounds reasonable, but if Kahu is one of the best FB's you've seen coming through, well, maybe you and I view the game differently lol

By the way you answered, I'd say you're the one who needs the cement spoon. Either that, or it's just a matter of comprehension.

I've explained the reason why I (and others) see potential in him, in what in my case would be at least 50 or 60 games I've seen him play. I don't have or need to convince you of anything, and it's my prerogative to think that injuries and his career coming through is relevant in my assessment.

You saw a whole 13 games between injuries in a rudderless team, and because you apparently didn't see him do anything, it's enough to climb on that high horse.
Careful you don't break anything when you inevitably fall off...

but of course, by saying **** in a post, it means I've lost all composure? lol. Do try harder son.

You're right - you're completely entitled to your view, as I am completely entitled to continue to question you on and ask for specifics. Afterall, you're the one making the assessment that he's something more than what he's shown, for whichever caveat you want to use as support (injuries, rudderless ship, spell by a witchdoctor).

 

[Porthoz]

Oh shit, I didn't realise you knew about the witchdoctor. Well, there goes my secret... :rolleyes:

 

[Renegade]

That's because I am the witchdoctor, if he plays well my mystique will perish.

 

[Ari Gold]

By standing out in the limited opportunities they have, especially as a back. Most young backs will do something special in their first 20 games that makes you go hmm, he's worth persevering with. Sailor did, Tuquiri did, Yow Yeh did, Boyd did. I'm sure if you look at most good-to-premier backs in the comp, they've all had at least one moment in their first dozen or so games that makes you go hmm.

Kahu hasn't. I challenge you to list one thing he's done at FG level in the limited time he's had underlines this supposed potential he has.

My point is, I don't think he's a bad player, just that he's nothing more than average. That's why I'm asking for proof from others, because others are the ones rating him as this supposed next big thing for us when i don't see it.



Milford has shown much, much more than Kahu has, there's no point comparing the two. While the Nikiorima boys look good in u20, most have kept a grounded perspective on them and stated let's see how they go in Q Cup etc before waxing lyrically about them.



What a ridiculous statement. I'm not bagging him on the basis of what I haven't seen - I'm simply putting forward an opinion on what I have seen, and what I have seen of him, at the only level that actually matters (first grade), he's done nothing imo to justify anything more than being a solid player.

As for bagging out others? Please cite where I've bagged out others, unless of course claiming others rate him more highly than I do and asking for examples that can correlate with their elevated opinion of him is bagging others, in which case harden the **** up.

I don't ever recall Dale Copley or Boyd being good in their first 12 games or so. Boyd looked solid but never really hinted at the form he'd show at the Dragons and all Copley ever showed was poor hands.