Ye Olde Coach Argument

[Coxy]

changing rules to stop tactics IS changing rules to stop melbourne being successful when the reason melbourne are successful is their tactics lol.

its like saying that bringing in a new law to make pubs use plastic instead of glass isnt to try and stop people from glassing other people lol. the reason people get glassed is because of the glass, so saying you cant use glass is a direct result of trying to stop people being glassed because if you take away the glass, glassings cant happen. if you take away melbournes winning tactics, they cant win - thats the theory.

But just like the Storm find some other wrestling technique to control the ruck, patrons will find some other weapon to injure people with at a pub :P

 

[Anonymous person]

But just like the Storm find some other wrestling technique to control the ruck, patrons will find some other weapon to injure people with at a pub :P

completely agree.

what i dont agree with is the fact that they are forced to come up with new ways just because noone else could match their old ways, so the old ways get made illegal.

 

[Coxy]

Are you talking about wrestling or glassing? :P

 

[Anonymous person]

both. who doesnt love a good glassing? lol. Birds missus didnt seem to mind.

 

[Coxy]

Well another example is the "non-negotiable" penalty for hand on the ball. Storm perfected that in mid-00s and that's why it's now deemed unacceptable.

Two referees was brought in to stop the wrestling in the ruck.

All things done to great effect by the Storm under the direction of Bellamy, and none of those are safety issues.

 

[Chumbason]

Rock & Flutterby,

I have watched the Broncos since day one, so yes I did see the 90's come and go. And YES the results were good, great even, hell there were some good times in the 80's and also since 2000, I fully agree and have said so a number of times... thats not the point or at least it's not my point.

Also I don't think you are being fair to suggest that perhaps I am saying WB is crap and Bellamy is great, thats not what I'm saying at all.

In all the years I have watched WB coached sides and for the most part the Broncos I have never really and honestly felt that I was watching a well prepared side. There is not enough time to list the amount of times they have been beaten by far worse sides, given up huge leads to only just win at the death, win one week against a good side and then get rolled the following week by a far poorer team and the story goes on. The amount of times we have had to come from no where to win on the back of one or two players when we really shouldve had it wrapped up.

It's not that the broncos get beaten, but how they get beaten and who beats them that is a huge issue. And I feel that for all bar a few patches here and there the broncos are almost unbackable at the TAB because while you know they should go ok, you just never can tell because of the endless times they have been rolled by sides they should have smashed.

My comparrison with the storm, and I am no fan of the storm, is that they look the part, they get the job done and there are few surprises, they almost always beat who they should beat and for almost five years, no matter who is on the roster, they win, they win well and they rarely look like they don't deserve to even be on the park... something Broncos sides are starting to be at risk of.

WB sides take the field and you just never know whats gonna happen... and i think i know why, WB finds great players and players that he thinks have greatness in them and also player combinations that he thinks will work together... he manages to collect them all into a squad and then appears to do nothing with them other than let them sort it out for themselves on the field.

I don't think he's a bad coach, if anything I'm suggesting that he's a coacher of people and not so much footballers. He tended to always be able to get the best out of older players and fill younger players with huge amounts of conferdence. But we've almost never had a game plan, never had a plan B or C, never been able to off-load, never able to have bodies in motion in attack so the defence isnt sure if we'll pass or not... nothing.

What we have had and bucket loads of it, is great players and great intentions but no real plan of how to use them. It's almost always been a freakish bit of magic from Lewis, Langer, Walters, Renouf, Salour, Loti, Lockyer, or Lazo or tallis breaking the line and giving it to a speedster to run away. Its all adlib and abhock off the hip type stuff, and when it works its great, hell we've seen heaps of it. But if the magic isnt there, or if the pass dosn't stick... or if the other team has a better defence line than last time we played them... we've got nothing. We swing it one way then back the other, back n forth till one of our magic men gets through, and that just doesnt work anymore, because we don't have enough of them anymore and the other teams know that we are basiclly just oppurtinists.

Why are WB coached teams famous for winning in the last minute with a magic 20 pass combo length of the field move??? is it from the coach and a game plan, or is it because of the fact that they are a team of individuals that has the potential to do just that, and have managed to stay in the game for 79 minutes and when required... they can work some magic, when they really should have been ahead by miles and not needed the last ditch effort to get home.

Why are WB coached teams being smashed so badly in resent times? because they have no defence ability... of course not, it's because the big list of stars are gone, there's no game plan and once the couple of stars we have got, fail to have the team winning, the lesser names get lost in mess, defence falls to bits and the team with the planned moves and a sense of organisation just rolls on thru.

It's very sad and I hate it, I love the broncos, but I truly feel that WB created a fantesy world and while ever he was able to keep adding magic men to the mix as the old ones went out, then the side would be ok. But once that stopped and the big names started to want to be apart of real football operations and not so much the NRL answer to the harlom globe trotters, the rot set in. As those players started to depart and were not able to be replaced the load on our remaining stars grew and grew... and thats why you see Locky almost in tears when he carries the side thru games and then has victory snatched from his graspe at the last moment due to a number of his team mates not being fully willing and prepared to do what was needed of them in those situations.

You may not agree, and it may not be as simple as I've suggested and I grant you that, but I have a valid point and 20 odd years of crazy broncos history supports it.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

I'm suggesting that he's a coacher of people and not so much footballers

Bingo! hes great with inspiring young blokes, or finding great talent and getting it to the club, but as far as actually coaching using league tactics and gameplans, hes not up to scratch

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Its all about winning, correct. Problem is, over the last few years we havent been doing so great in that respect, and thats due to the lack of updated tactics. Now that hes gone, we are left with the aftermath, a team of rag tag superstars, with lots of rookies who have no idea about successful game plans

 

[Bucking Beads]

Its all about winning, correct. Problem is, over the last few years we havent been doing so great in that respect, and thats due to the lack of updated tactics. Now that hes gone, we are left with the aftermath, a team of rag tag superstars, with lots of rookies who have no idea about successful game plans

The succesful game plan is Henjaks job and from my view he is doing the same as Bennet.! Still Bennett has a better record than than most coaches although he did have plenty of superstars. As good as Bellamy is as coach he still has had the best 1,7,9 combo in the comp together injury free for the best part of 5 years which makes his job easier.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Its all about winning, correct. Problem is, over the last few years we havent been doing so great in that respect, and thats due to the lack of updated tactics. Now that hes gone, we are left with the aftermath, a team of rag tag superstars, with lots of rookies who have no idea about successful game plans

The succesful game plan is Henjaks job and from my view he is doing the same as Bennet.! Still Bennett has a better record than than most coaches although he did have plenty of superstars. As good as Bellamy is as coach he still has had the best 1,7,9 combo in the comp together injury free for the best part of 5 years which makes his job easier.

If you want to use that argument, go back and look at the years that the broncos were successful and u will note that we had the best 1, 6, 7, 9 combo going for the most part (then we started relying on star studded pack, but still superstars). Having superstars in a team really take the pressure off the coach, but once they are gone, if the coach has no tactical skills, he gets found out, much like Bennet did

 

[ethos]

Does any one remember the style of enterprising, attacking footy we played in the first five rounds of last year?

Granted it was only a small period of time but I think Henjak's got it in him to be a top notch coach. Not to mention he helped pull us out of the traditional mid-season slump and to within one game of the grand final. I'm prepared to keep my faith in him for a while longer.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Does any one remember the style of enterprising, attacking footy we played in the first five rounds of last year?

Granted it was only a small period of time but I think Henjak's got it in him to be a top notch coach. Not to mention he helped pull us out of the traditional mid-season slump and to within one game of the grand final. I'm prepared to keep my faith in him for a while longer.

I am sick of the mid season slump if Henjak can get rid of that then he might be onto a winner.

 

[Big Pete]

Having superstars in a team really take the pressure off the coach, but once they are gone, if the coach has no tactical skills, he gets found out, much like Bennet did

When was Bennett found out?

 

[GCBRONCO]

Personally I tend to agree with Queenslander in that Bennett is more the type of coach who is capable of getting more out of individuals then someone like Smith or Bellamy who are better from a tactical perspective, on the comment Queenslander made about him being found out as having no tactical skills I do not agree, he has them I just don't think its his strong point. His strong points are building a strong winning culture at a club, getting the best out of individuals and youth development, something I think Bellamy was lucky to be able to learn from Bennett and I believe a large reason to why Melbourne are so successful. I also tend to think people are being hard on Bennett and evaluating him solely on his career at the backend at the Broncos where in all honesty yes it wasn't the best years in his career but his career not only involve his time at the Broncos the Broncos, he also proved himself at the Raiders and Brisbane Souths before the entry of the Broncos where at both of those clubs and has shown his still upto the task at the Dragons.

This is a man who for all the mistakes he made and people highlight(and I think those being critical have a tendency to exaggerate the negatives as well), was also willing to put his career on the line by going up against a figure in Queensland sport unrivalled for the clubs longterm best interests and put faith in a group of youngsters that would go onto build the foundation of success the club would gain.

 

[Flutterby]

Bennett may not be up to the same standard tactically as a Smith or a Bellamy or a Henry (who IMO is actually the best tactical coach in the game today); but to suggest he NEVER had ANY tactics or ANY gameplans is just wrong. Spend some time chatting to a Langer, a Renouf, a Sailor, a Tallis, a Lockyer (or anyone who has ever played under him) and they will tell you of the game plans and tactics he put in place for them over the years. Yeah sure a lot of the time he didn't really have much of a gameplan, but that was usually also a consequence of the players he had not actually needing much of a gameplan or that to give them a game plan would have actually worked against bringing the best out of the players/team. As Rock said, ever coach has a different style (and their style is often dependant on the players at their disposal) but using that style, whatever it may be, to it's best advantage to get the best results and highest number of wins from their team is the mark of a great coach.

 

[Professor47]

Interesting.

At the end of the day - coaches live and die by results. WB is an excellent coach because he was the victories to show. 100% GF record and he's had to pull off 6 - and 06 was nothing but genius. Sure - it was the men on the field who did the job but what he did in 06 is the most "tactical" I've ever seen of WB and I think he admitted himself he had to change things up a bit that year - I believe the reason he did not do this at the dragons last year is because it was his first year --> He didn't know the boys well enough yet to do anything radical in the last weeks of the comp.

 

[Coxy]

Bennett's philosophy is very old fashioned, there's no doubt. He's always said "I don't care what the opposition do, all I'm concerned about is what my team does". So he's always coached for his team to play to its strengths.

Unfortunately it means tactical coaches like Bellamy, Warren Ryan, Brian Smith etc have had the edge on him at times.

 

[Raw Boned Youngster]

Spend some time chatting to a Langer, a Renouf, a Sailor, a Tallis, a Lockyer (or anyone who has ever played under him) and they will tell you of the game plans and tactics he put in place for them over the years.

I don't think Gordie has been all that complimentary about Wayne's game plans.

Wayne had a water shed moment after the great era of the adhoc players. We all remember the grinding years when Wayne thought the team didn't need a creative halfback. Tactically, it showed that there wasn't a lot to Wayne's plans other than commitment, work ethic anda 'never say die' attitude from the players.

I blame Jack Gibson.

Sorry about the repeating sentiment for all you SBL fans. You are out there aren't you?