Charmamba
Life is a Fantasy League
- Jan 9, 2011
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Chumbason said:
Once upon a time we had the greatest coach in the comp and an allstar side.
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Once upon a time we had the greatest coach in the comp and an allstar side.
Kaz
State of Origin Captain
- Mar 5, 2008
- 10,017
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Until he was found out to tell lies & contact other clubs about signing our off contracted players.
draggx said:
Until he was found out to tell lies & contact other clubs about signing our off contracted players.
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
to be fair, he didnt do that until many years after he'd stopped being the greatest coach in the comp.
to be fair, he didnt do that until many years after he'd stopped being the greatest coach in the comp.
T
tkday
Banned User
- Mar 10, 2010
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
hahaha, there's so much speculation about WB and the club but no hard proof, still very funny AP!
hahaha, there's so much speculation about WB and the club but no hard proof, still very funny AP!
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
the hard proof that he isnt/wasnt the best coach is the results and the number of years where we were just plain ordinary at best. every other coach changed their methods, bennett didnt. you could see this in the way the broncos played - hit up, hit up, hit up, hit up, go wide, kick. no offloads, no plays, just the same as if we had unlimited interchange. we didnt though, so it didnt work.
the hard proof that he isnt/wasnt the best coach is the results and the number of years where we were just plain ordinary at best. every other coach changed their methods, bennett didnt. you could see this in the way the broncos played - hit up, hit up, hit up, hit up, go wide, kick. no offloads, no plays, just the same as if we had unlimited interchange. we didnt though, so it didnt work.
Dexter
State of Origin Rep
Contributor
- Mar 26, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Sounds like a Storm game plan, oh wait, that's right Bellamy learned everything he knows from Bennett he just happens to have a great 9, 7 1 and 4 who have avoided serious injuries during their run.
Sounds like a Storm game plan, oh wait, that's right Bellamy learned everything he knows from Bennett he just happens to have a great 9, 7 1 and 4 who have avoided serious injuries during their run.
C
Coxy
International Captain
- Mar 4, 2008
- 31,212
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Hmmm really? You think the Broncos' boring grinding style of play coincided with Locky's move to five-eighth and Karmichael Hunt's rise to first grade?
I'm not so sure.
I actually think the Broncos' grinding style of play started in 1999 after Alf retired and the Broncos were stone motherless last after 10 rounds and the only way to claw their way out of that hole was to play really really basic football.
In 2000 they kept playing really basic football, relentlessly rotating big forwards to get that go forward happening until the opposition was tired enough that Tuqiri, Sailor and Lockyer could just run rampant on kick returns.
The problem started in 2001 with the removal of unlimited interchange. The power game doesn't work if your forwards doing the power gain are tiring.
The Broncos suffered through much of the '00s with a lack of decent halves and consistent hooker. That pretty much dictated that the Broncos couldn't play flamboyant football. Yes, you've got one of the best in Lockyer, but with the likes of Shane Perry, Shaun Berrigan, injury plagued Phil Lee, declining Richard Swain, injury plagued Michael Ryan, Casey McGuire, injury plagued Ben Ikin, injury plagued Scott Prince, versatile but grossly under qualified Tonie Carroll filling 6, 7 and 9 at various stages there was never an option to play anything but conservative attacking football.
At the risk of opening up an old debate that is very tired...things could've been a whole lot different, especially in 2002 and then 2004-05 if the Broncos had managed to retain Luke Priddis. If he'd been our consistent number 9 even up until now given he's still playing good footy for the Dragons, along with the consistency we had post-2004 with 6. Lockyer and 1. Hunt, who knows how different things could've been?
Hmmm really? You think the Broncos' boring grinding style of play coincided with Locky's move to five-eighth and Karmichael Hunt's rise to first grade?
I'm not so sure.
I actually think the Broncos' grinding style of play started in 1999 after Alf retired and the Broncos were stone motherless last after 10 rounds and the only way to claw their way out of that hole was to play really really basic football.
In 2000 they kept playing really basic football, relentlessly rotating big forwards to get that go forward happening until the opposition was tired enough that Tuqiri, Sailor and Lockyer could just run rampant on kick returns.
The problem started in 2001 with the removal of unlimited interchange. The power game doesn't work if your forwards doing the power gain are tiring.
The Broncos suffered through much of the '00s with a lack of decent halves and consistent hooker. That pretty much dictated that the Broncos couldn't play flamboyant football. Yes, you've got one of the best in Lockyer, but with the likes of Shane Perry, Shaun Berrigan, injury plagued Phil Lee, declining Richard Swain, injury plagued Michael Ryan, Casey McGuire, injury plagued Ben Ikin, injury plagued Scott Prince, versatile but grossly under qualified Tonie Carroll filling 6, 7 and 9 at various stages there was never an option to play anything but conservative attacking football.
At the risk of opening up an old debate that is very tired...things could've been a whole lot different, especially in 2002 and then 2004-05 if the Broncos had managed to retain Luke Priddis. If he'd been our consistent number 9 even up until now given he's still playing good footy for the Dragons, along with the consistency we had post-2004 with 6. Lockyer and 1. Hunt, who knows how different things could've been?
M
m1c
NRL Player
- Mar 16, 2008
- 1,655
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
I don't think you can say it wasn't successful. For consistently successful results over a lengthy period of time it couldn't have been more successful. No other team would have been as consistent as us through that period. The Roosters faded whilst the Storm were building.
To be honest, that grinding style of football was playing to our strength. Petero, Webcke, Thaiday, Thorn, Carroll, Parker, Hannant, Meyers, Webb... We had nuffie halfbacks, nuffie hookers, nuffie wingers and for a large period of that era, no real 5/8 either. When positions 6, 7 and 9 were a revolving door why should Bennett have implemented a game plan where the execution, involvement and coherency of these positions would have been vital?
It would have been misguided of him as a coach not to play a forward orientated game plan.
I don't think you can say it wasn't successful. For consistently successful results over a lengthy period of time it couldn't have been more successful. No other team would have been as consistent as us through that period. The Roosters faded whilst the Storm were building.
To be honest, that grinding style of football was playing to our strength. Petero, Webcke, Thaiday, Thorn, Carroll, Parker, Hannant, Meyers, Webb... We had nuffie halfbacks, nuffie hookers, nuffie wingers and for a large period of that era, no real 5/8 either. When positions 6, 7 and 9 were a revolving door why should Bennett have implemented a game plan where the execution, involvement and coherency of these positions would have been vital?
It would have been misguided of him as a coach not to play a forward orientated game plan.
C
Coxy
International Captain
- Mar 4, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Yep, basically what I was saying.
m1c said:
Yep, basically what I was saying.
C
Coxy
International Captain
- Mar 4, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
By the way, I don't think the Broncos' problems have all been about flamboyance either. There's been some bigger concerns which I think can be attributed to the coaching staff, (and thus Bennett), because they were obvious to everyone and teams exploited it for years.
1. Inability to prevent second phase play (offloads) - still a problem now
2. Inability to create or use second phase play - we now have a ball playing back rower in Gillett who offloads almost at will...what do the players do? Just run back at the defence. No clue.
3. Lack of creativity at the ruck in attack - too much hooker to forward, hit up, get dominated. Not enough variation from our hookers to get out of dummyhalf and put the one off defender in two minds. Not enough ruck plays involving hooker and halfback etc. The only variation was "turn it inside to Tunza", which worked sometimes.
One of the most creative bits of forward play I remember was in 2002 where Webcke would get the ball and then spin it out to Civoniceva who would then link with Lockyer from fullback. The defence had NFI what was going on and it produced tries on a few occasions. That kind of creative play amongst the forwards, that variation, was too rare.
NRL defences aren't going to be troubled by one off rucks.
No, we didn't have the personnel to do sweeping set plays involving the halves and everyone else on every play, but there was no reason a few different ruck moves could be developed between hooker, half and forwards.
By the way, I don't think the Broncos' problems have all been about flamboyance either. There's been some bigger concerns which I think can be attributed to the coaching staff, (and thus Bennett), because they were obvious to everyone and teams exploited it for years.
1. Inability to prevent second phase play (offloads) - still a problem now
2. Inability to create or use second phase play - we now have a ball playing back rower in Gillett who offloads almost at will...what do the players do? Just run back at the defence. No clue.
3. Lack of creativity at the ruck in attack - too much hooker to forward, hit up, get dominated. Not enough variation from our hookers to get out of dummyhalf and put the one off defender in two minds. Not enough ruck plays involving hooker and halfback etc. The only variation was "turn it inside to Tunza", which worked sometimes.
One of the most creative bits of forward play I remember was in 2002 where Webcke would get the ball and then spin it out to Civoniceva who would then link with Lockyer from fullback. The defence had NFI what was going on and it produced tries on a few occasions. That kind of creative play amongst the forwards, that variation, was too rare.
NRL defences aren't going to be troubled by one off rucks.
No, we didn't have the personnel to do sweeping set plays involving the halves and everyone else on every play, but there was no reason a few different ruck moves could be developed between hooker, half and forwards.
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
we won 2000 on the back of our no-frills gameplan of big forwards making 5 hit ups per set, being interchanged after 5-10 minutes by equally big forwards who are fresh, and doing the exact same thing. we had the best pack in the comp, and then we had backs that could just pick their moments to tear the opposition apart after they became tired from trying to contain our relentless barrage of big forwards.
then 2001 came along and unlimited interchange was gone, but Bennett kept the same game plan. we never won 3 matches in a row that season, and lost 6 in a row at the end of the season. ever since then, we'e struggled because we havent changed our style of play.
it very much did start then, not in 2004.Coxy said:
we won 2000 on the back of our no-frills gameplan of big forwards making 5 hit ups per set, being interchanged after 5-10 minutes by equally big forwards who are fresh, and doing the exact same thing. we had the best pack in the comp, and then we had backs that could just pick their moments to tear the opposition apart after they became tired from trying to contain our relentless barrage of big forwards.
then 2001 came along and unlimited interchange was gone, but Bennett kept the same game plan. we never won 3 matches in a row that season, and lost 6 in a row at the end of the season. ever since then, we'e struggled because we havent changed our style of play.
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
everything fell into our laps at the end of 2006, we got lucky. it wasnt brilliant coaching.
wests got a premiership too. penrith got a premiership. the cowboys got within a whisker of a premiership.The Rock said:
everything fell into our laps at the end of 2006, we got lucky. it wasnt brilliant coaching.
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
yeah but it was no more effective than those other teams i listed that won premierships. finishing 3rd 3 years in a row means nothing when you only got 1 premiership from finishing 3rd 3 years in a row.
thats why i dont think anyone saying hes the best coach around has a leg to stand on - other teams have made multiple grand finals/grand final qualifiers or won multiple premierships in the same space of time that we've only made and won one. i mean, Grahame Murray took 2 different teams to the grand final, winning one of them, in 5 years. his record over the same time, going by the 'bennett lovers' mentality of 'we won a premiership', is better as he won one and made another, compared to bennetts solitary win. the storm, under bellamy, made 4 straight finals (with the possibility of more) - something which bennett was never even able to come close to. the most he made was 2.
yeah but it was no more effective than those other teams i listed that won premierships. finishing 3rd 3 years in a row means nothing when you only got 1 premiership from finishing 3rd 3 years in a row.
thats why i dont think anyone saying hes the best coach around has a leg to stand on - other teams have made multiple grand finals/grand final qualifiers or won multiple premierships in the same space of time that we've only made and won one. i mean, Grahame Murray took 2 different teams to the grand final, winning one of them, in 5 years. his record over the same time, going by the 'bennett lovers' mentality of 'we won a premiership', is better as he won one and made another, compared to bennetts solitary win. the storm, under bellamy, made 4 straight finals (with the possibility of more) - something which bennett was never even able to come close to. the most he made was 2.
C
Coxy
International Captain
- Mar 4, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
What do you think of Tim Sheens as a coach?
What do you think of Tim Sheens as a coach?
Kaz
State of Origin Captain
- Mar 5, 2008
- 10,017
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
We better not sign Sheens.
Coxy said:
We better not sign Sheens.
Dexter
State of Origin Rep
Contributor
- Mar 26, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Which one did he win? Chooks lost to a WB coached Broncos and Cows lost to the Tigers, also lost a super league final with Leeds.
Anonymous person said:
Which one did he win? Chooks lost to a WB coached Broncos and Cows lost to the Tigers, also lost a super league final with Leeds.
Anonymous person
Banned User
- Dec 16, 2008
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
oops youre right, my mistake.
oops youre right, my mistake.
D
ddd
NRL Player
- May 14, 2009
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Re: Israel Folau wants out... I'll show him the door.
Fault 1 Federer [icon_razz1
Anonymous person said:
Fault 1 Federer [icon_razz1
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