Ye Olde Coach Argument

[Meat77]

Spend some time chatting to a Langer, a Renouf, a Sailor, a Tallis, a Lockyer (or anyone who has ever played under him) and they will tell you of the game plans and tactics he put in place for them over the years.

I don't think Gordie has been all that complimentary about Wayne's game plans.

Having spent a few hours in the pub after the 2006 Prelim Final with Gordie after he'd had a few I can definitely second that statement!

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

game set match

 

[Anonymous person]

Can anyone explain Wayne's success at St George so far in the last year and a bit? He walked straight into a team that lacked any big names and turned it into team of minor premiers. There have been players at Saints who were once complete no names and are now boarder-lining a Origin jersey.

Saints still don't have any real "stars", besides Brett Morris and Jamie Soward who weren't even guranteed a first grade spot in 2008, before Wayne arrived.

lol

Wendell Sailor - 3 premierships, test matches out the wahzoo, plenty of origins
Jeremy Smith - 2 grand finals, 1 premiership, new zealand world cup winning team
Darius Boyd - 1 premiership, state of origin, test matches
Neville Costigan - state of origin
Luke Priddis - 2 premierships, test matches, state of origin, clive churchill medal winner
Matt Cooper - state of origin, test matches

but no, St George lacked big name players, wayne bennett made them all stars [icon_wink. they had more big name players than the Broncos, and Jamie Soward and Brett Morris just exploded out of the blocks, not because of Bennetts coaching.

 

[Coxy]

I actually think Jamie Soward has flourished under Bennett because he does coach a simple game plan. Not totally structured like Bellamy, but clear as to the roles on each tackle and what he expects from Soward.

Soward floundered under coaches like Stuart and Brown who didn't have firm plans for individual players, and so he was expected to lead the team and be playmaker off the cuff. That ain't Soward's go at all.

So yes, I think Bennett's coaching has assisted Soward's development greatly.

 

[Anonymous person]

he was always going to be a good player though. its like giving Graham Murray the credit for Thurston being awesome. some players are going to be good regardless of who the coach is.

i mean, do you think that Bennett made a magical speech that suddenly turned Morris into a try scoring machine, giving him speed and agility? or do you think that maybe hes just a talented young kid?

 

[Coxy]

Never said anything about Morris. He was always the better of the twins and was always going to be one of the great modern wingers.

And Thurston compared to Soward? LOLZ. As critical as I may be of Thurston as a halfback, he's a natural talent who would thrive in any position in the backline. He didn't need coaching, he was always going to be a freak.

Soward though has a lot of natural talent, but not the confidence, drive and x-factor that makes players like Locky and Thurston into out and out champions. He needs to be groomed for that. When he was just thrown into first grade by Stuart at the Roosters, and then Brown at the Dragons, he had a crisis of confidence, and just couldn't put it together.

With Bennett he has the confidence to know in his head exactly what he's meant to do, it takes the pressure off a LOT.

 

[tkday]

I am going to have to agree with AP on this one. I have no doubt WB probably helped Soward, but he would've done that under just about any coach I'd say.

 

[Charmamba]

i mean, do you think that Bennett made a magical speech that suddenly turned Morris into a try scoring machine, giving him speed and agility? or do you think that maybe hes just a talented young kid?

i would more say WB taught the players around Morris how to get the ball to him in the right spots.

 

[Flutterby]

Spend some time chatting to a Langer, a Renouf, a Sailor, a Tallis, a Lockyer (or anyone who has ever played under him) and they will tell you of the game plans and tactics he put in place for them over the years.

I don't think Gordie has been all that complimentary about Wayne's game plans.

Exactly - because he couldn't really understand them, but the point here is that contrary to earlier statements on here, WB DID have game plans at times. However also a lot of the time, he recognised that a lot of his players, like Gordie, didn't need and were actually constrained by a game plan and that the best way to 'coach' players like Gordie is a minimal game plan; so it's a bit harsh to say he wasn't a great coach because he rarely had game plans. If he weren't a great coach he would have come up with game plans and tried to force players into using them, when clearly his players were better served by not having one - this is the way he more often coached in his later years here, which we can all admit were some of the least successful years he had with the Broncos.

 

[Raw Boned Youngster]

I think Wayne is / was a great coach.
I think the parameters of his greatness needs to be defined though. I also believe that he is the envy of many modern day coaches because they can see Wayne for what he is but can't match or duplicate it.

Wayne doesn't talk much, and I believe that is in his best interests.
Too much explanation might say too much and the bubble of intrigue could be pricked.

Obviously, Wayne's reluctance to talk to the media is also very calculated.

For me, Waynes world changed forever after the Roosters' incident - there was no way back for the man of respect and honesty.
The Civo situation, rightly or wrongly, also reflected poorly on his cred - premiership or not.
It was time for Wayne to move on - for him and the Broncos.

To answer the question a few days back... I think Tim Sheens is a brilliant coach.
He is innovative and comes up with great plays.
Bellamy still has him covered though.
Jack Gibson's legacy is WB.

 

[ethos]

Ok, so lets say Bennett inherited a 'star studded' Dragons team.. out of the players you mentioned Anonymous, Sailor, Costigan and Boyd all debuted for the Broncos and Priddis rose to success here as well.

So, it's probably fair to say that Bennett had a pretty big influence in their careers and he helped make them the stars they are before he even arrived at the Dragons.

 

[Bucking Beads]

WHy do you bother arguing with the great AP?? He is never wrong and will always have a greater knowledge of Rugby League than all people on this forum!!

 

[Kimlo]

WHy do you bother arguing with the great AP?? He is never wrong and will always have a greater knowledge of Rugby League than all people on this forum!!

He is Roger Federer.

 

[ningnangnong]

Lol, AP has been proven wrong yet again.

 

[Jeba]

Lol, AP has been proved wrong yet again.

Yes, and with common sense, yet again icon_thumbs_u

 

[Big Pete]

Is it just a coincidence that the following players had their best season ever in 2009 under Wayne?

1. Soward
2. Morris
3. Prior
4. Weyman
5. Poore (Now with the Eels...going great guns for the Eels right now too huh? LOLZ)
6. Scott
7. Creagh

And that's being quite modest too.

Dan Hunt, Jarrod Saffy, Jon Green and Mickey Paea also played exceptionally well under Bennett.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

as i said earlier, bennet gets the best out of the players... he doesnt get the best out of the team.. there is a MASSIVE difference.

in 1 scenario u have good players with potential, and with bennets coaching they realise that and become stars

on the other hand you can have a team of good solid players but not stars, but good teamwork and tactics.

the latter means no matter who u have, u can still be competitive, the former relies on having players with the skills in the first place. i know which id prefer

 

[Jeba]

as i said earlier, bennet gets the best out of the players... he doesnt get the best out of the team.. there is a MASSIVE difference.

in 1 scenario u have good players with potential, and with bennets coaching they realise that and become stars

on the other hand you can have a team of good solid players but not stars, but good teamwork and tactics.

the latter means no matter who u have, u can still be competitive, the former relies on having players with the skills in the first place. i know which id prefer

Hang on, you can't just change your point of view to suit your argument. You have said in the past that the coach's role is purely to pick the best team and the rest will sort itself out. Now you've come out and said that it's about good teamwork and tactics as well. That is very much correct, but which is it???? Does he just pick the team or does he do more????