Corey - Yes, man! Or Norman?

[Big Pete]

Pretty much.

Look, the second man play is something that each team needs to keep around in their kit-bag but it can't be the chief play - there needs to be variation and ingenuity.

The problem is the gameplan is bare bones and our players lack the ability to play what's in-front of them. It seems like only Hodges studies the opposition defensive line and even then he tends to put himself in no mans land when we need him on tackle 5 or 6.

 

[LittleDavey]

Hunt has pushed himself to the short side a number of times this year to create an overlap, he did it on Friday night (forget if we scored off it or not) - while a few times in the year is certainly not enough to get excited about, it's about the only vision and variation any of our so-called 'playmakers' have really shown this year. Although maybe I'm being too critical.

Back to topic - Norman's a fucking skirt and I can't wait to see him gone. I think he'll be better under a better coach, but he's not what we need.

 

[Porthoz]

As much as Norman has talent, and as much as the halves don't, fact is they put him many times in a position to make those assists, and he still managed to botch 2/3's of them. More importantly, too many times has he shown that he isn't willing/capable of doing an extra effort for his team and mates, especially in defense.

He may be our best option at fullback, but I want him as far away from a Broncos jersey as possible!

 

[rnabokov]

As much as Norman has talent, and as much as the halves don't, fact is they put him many times in a position to make those assists, and he still managed to botch 2/3's of them. More importantly, too many times has he shown that he isn't willing/capable of doing an extra effort for his team and mates, especially in defense.

He may be our best option at fullback, but I want him as far away from a Broncos jersey as possible!

After watching the Shark's replay for the 3rd time, I disagree our halves don't have talent. They do. Wallace in particular. The problem isn't talent, it's pace. It's speed off the mark. That is what Wallace lacks. If he had pace, he would be terrific.

Prince on the other hand tries to be the Todd Carney we wish we had, but, for all his energy, he is also too slow, but just. For his vintage, he is quick.

Norman is quite simply, too smart by half thinking he has the speed, which he doesn't, to step through the defence, when in any case, the pass is the better option, . I reckon he should be a ball playing back rower tbh.

For mine, Kahu's time has arrived to go to FB, assuming he is 100% fit. I agree that Norman shouldn't wear the Broncos jersey again, no matter how many try assists he decides, for whatever reason, to create by passing the ball instead of thinking he's Billy Slater.

 

[Porthoz]

Faster and more accurate service out of dummy half would give the halves the extra time they need...

 

[Coxy]

Faster and more accurate service out of dummy half would give the halves the extra time they need...

which is why Wallace to hooker makes so much sense.

 

[Old Mate]

Just don't expect any scoots.

 

[rnabokov]

which is why Wallace to hooker makes so much sense.

Again, after watching the Sharks game 3 times, there were a few patches early in the game I think when Macca, for reasons known only to some pagan deity, decided to actually sprint out of dummy half, somewhat like Granville did earlier in the season, but then he stopped and reverted to the usual Macca. He is an enigma.

For mine, Wallace to hooker makes good sense with Hunt at 6 or 7 and Prince the other, but somehow I doubt Hook will make that change. Hunt putting Hoffman through the gap to score, very much like Carney did later was sweet. Good vision and a great pass - for mine, an excellent half back or 5/8 play.

Norman does great things and terrible things in equal proportions, sort of like our answer to Chris Sandow. I don't think he is a total liability, but needs rockets up his anus which Hook either won't do, or Norman enjoys the punishment but his ego won't let him be unselfish.

I can see Norman timing his runs well into the line, but his repeated refusal to pass when the pass is the only real option is infuriating. And I still reckon he is way to slow for FB or in the halves, unless he became totally unselfish in which case he could become a sort of John Sutton 5/8 but he is no FB until he spends an off season doubling his speed and determination.

No doubt that is exactly what Stuart will try to achieve, but then I can see Norman and Sandow doing well in Q Cup for Wentworthville. Untl then, I can't see Hook making any changes

I would still love to see Kahu get a run at the back.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Just don't expect any scoots.

Don't worry ....I don't think anyone would be. Wallace is probably the only player McCullough could actually beat in a foot race.

 

[rnabokov]

Don't worry ....I don't think anyone would be. Wallace is probably the only player McCullough could actually beat in a foot race.

No way. Macca can fall over much faster than Wally

 

[subsbligh]

Just hurry up and put our best attacking player (Hoffman) into the most important attacking role in the modern rugby league team (fullback).

Norman offers nothing.

My loyalty to him ended around the same time his career did (the moment he signed with Parramatta).

This "veil" that he was some special kind of talent came crashing down too.

 

[Morkel]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

Never his doing? Please, the guy has created opportunities with his passing game that were otherwise never on - that's basically what kept us in that first Storm game and has been a feature of our season.

Can you point those opportunities out? He doesn't have a 100% strike record, that's for sure, but I'd imagine he's completing and creating more opportunities than either half.

I just like how in one play Ben Hunt was able to do something neither of our halves were able to in 40+ minutes. Go to the line, put the defence in two minds and put his receiver on the outside.

He's "created" nothing. Go back and watch the replays. You'll see that 90% of the time Prince has taken the line on, or taken a few runners on the right-hand-side and caused the defence to bunch up. That's what a good half does, take the line on or get a good short ball away, especially if they don't have the speed that they used to. The only difference between Prince & Carney is that Carney has an extra yard or two of pace. Norman is just an extra man, and while he isn't the 'creator', his is very often the undoing of some (a lot) of those plays.

That's why when people say "if you do the same thing over & over again you get the same result" it shits me. Because it shows a complete disregard for the pressure and the unpredictable nature inherent in humans. And how that pressure & fatigue influences it. To bag our halves and then give Norman the credit, or Hunt the credit, is unfair. They were all working towards the same game plan, it just so happens that for that particular play, that particular player was either able to cause doubt in the defence, or the defence just purely ballsed up and allowed us to score.

To me, the Broncos & the Sharks had exactly the same game plan. Low percentage forward-oriented football, and wait for the opposition to make a mistake. Broncos forwards were way on top for 90% of the game. Unfortunately it only took one bad drop of the ball and two poor reads in defence and the Sharks took full advantage of those opportunities. But it happened because they did the same thing, over and over and over again, until we cracked. In fact that's the game plan that the Broncos have used all year. And last year. See how the same strategy, the high swirling bomb on the last, worked for the Sharks?

FTR, The only difference between the first half of last year and the other season-and-a-half is that in that earlier period our defence kept us in the games. The simple football kept the opposition under pressure and we ground them down, even with unflashy attack. This year, we've been leaking too many points and instead the pressure has been on us and our attack isn't good enough to claw back.

 

[rnabokov]

I agree with your argument Morkel, however one thing is still required of the FB and that is to know when to time his run which Norman does well, and Hoffman as FB doesn't, or well, hasn't yet done consistently, so that 2nd man plays broke down too often when he played at the back.

I totally agree with your comparison of Prince and Carney

One thing I did enjoy in the Sharks game was a moment when McGuire got the ball and ... passed it. YES. That is what we need so much: McGuire and Hannant passing the ball instead of the dreary one-outs

 

[Huge]

Norman has talent with regard to football at least. Where he lacks is in judgement . He creates space for himself and has the special ingredient others before him have had, namely time to do things. He reminds me strongly of Jason Smith, only the young version and not the accomplished first grade veteran. He's got what it takes but sadly not the third element required and it is unclear if the wisdom will ever be there. If he plays for a long while he may be a player similar to Sutton of previous years. The Sutton we see now is more like Jason Smith but for years previously has had the talent and time but not the wisdom.

hope he goes away for a few years and comes back the complete footballer.

 

[subsbligh]

I agree with your argument Morkel, however one thing is still required of the FB and that is to know when to time his run which Norman does well, and Hoffman as FB doesn't, or well, hasn't yet done consistently, so that 2nd man plays broke down too often when he played at the back.

I totally agree with your comparison of Prince and Carney

One thing I did enjoy in the Sharks game was a moment when McGuire got the ball and ... passed it. YES. That is what we need so much: McGuire and Hannant passing the ball instead of the dreary one-outs

By well, you mean EVERY FUCKING TIME?

 

[Big Pete]

This is how I see it...

You can't give '90%' of the credit to the inside player, especially when it's been Wallace for the most part who's been doing the combination with Norman and not Prince. Credit must be given to the fullback for both positioning, pass selection and pass quality...how he's been labeled as creating nothing is just plain wrong. This does not mean I believe Norman is a better playmaker...it's the Karmichael Hunt situation all over again in my view and like K, Norman deserves credit on his end.

Also, if we're going to blame our defence we need to consider which fringe is causing us the most problems...I believe you'll find it's Mr. '90%' who's letting us down.

 

[subsbligh]

Norman has talent with regard to football at least. Where he lacks is in judgement . He creates space for himself and has the special ingredient others before him have had, namely time to do things. He reminds me strongly of Jason Smith, only the young version and not the accomplished first grade veteran. He's got what it takes but sadly not the third element required and it is unclear if the wisdom will ever be there. If he plays for a long while he may be a player similar to Sutton of previous years. The Sutton we see now is more like Jason Smith but for years previously has had the talent and time but not the wisdom.

hope he goes away for a few years and comes back the complete footballer.

I disagree mate. Norman has gone from high school star, to U20s star (two arenas where trick shot ponies and big fast boys succeed) to NRL failure, with glimpses of brilliance.

From what one can glean from simply watching him play for 80 minutes a week, seems he lacks desire and is over-confident in his ability to beat his opposite man, which he rarely succeeds in doing. He plays footy to be the star of the show. But he's not side stepping school boys at Keebra Park or part time footballers in Toyota Cup anymore.

In all seriousness I hope the change in scenery and the cutting of the apron strings away from his seriously over-sheltered life at the Broncos benefits him to a successful footy career - who knows maybe to Qld Origin's benefit?.

If he went and played for the Storm under Craig Bellamy, he would be an absolute superstar at 6. The selfish attitude would be bitch slapped out of him by Cronk, Slater and Smith and he be given the part time role Widdop has/had and shone in.

Under Ricky Stuart, at the Eels (with their fucking hopeless, prying board of directors) with other deadshits like Sandow and Hayne, he's got no chance.

 

[Huge]

Seems like we actually agree.i know you said we don't but in different words we do seem to be agreeing. Unless Im reading your words wrongly but Im guessing you think Norman can play the game at NRL standard but has a poor attitude. I put that attitude problem down to a lack of maturity ( wisdom,commitment ) . I agree a change of scenery is needed and also similarly I am pessimistic that he will find better fortune at Parra.