Corey - Yes, man! Or Norman?

[Morkel]

I agree with your argument Morkel, however one thing is still required of the FB and that is to know when to time his run which Norman does well, and Hoffman as FB doesn't, or well, hasn't yet done consistently, so that 2nd man plays broke down too often when he played at the back.

I totally agree with your comparison of Prince and Carney

One thing I did enjoy in the Sharks game was a moment when McGuire got the ball and ... passed it. YES. That is what we need so much: McGuire and Hannant passing the ball instead of the dreary one-outs

It sure was nice to see, wasn't it. And Because McGuire has the determination of 10 Norman's, he always takes 3 defenders to stop, which means that there are 3 defenders committed to him, with the pass then giving the players outside him room. On that though, when these plays do unfold, it seems to me that they've finally learned to stand deeper, however they're still not running on to the bull at full speed.

Sorry to keep dragging team-specific stuff in to this thread...

This is how I see it...

You can't give '90%' of the credit to the inside player, especially when it's been Wallace for the most part who's been doing the combination with Norman and not Prince. Credit must be given to the fullback for both positioning, pass selection and pass quality...how he's been labeled as creating nothing is just plain wrong. This does not mean I believe Norman is a better playmaker...it's the Karmichael Hunt situation all over again in my view and like K, Norman deserves credit on his end.

Also, if we're going to blame our defence we need to consider which fringe is causing us the most problems...I believe you'll find it's Mr. '90%' who's letting us down.

Wallace may be the one who passes it to Norman, but it's Prince, either on the play before or at the start of the current play, that drags the defenders out to the right. Hunt got a lot of the credit because he chose the right option 8 times out of 10. He actually had the ability to get around the defence (getting through himself, or forcing a defender in that leaves his outside numbers open), as opposed to Norman's belief that he can (and subsequently dying with the ball when he gets caught).

And I do agree with you regarding Prince's defence. It has improved from his later Titan's years, but is definitely a target for the opposition. Unfortunately the team as a whole has not been able to cover him like, say, the Roosters are doing with Maloney. Putting Gillett there as a minder has not worked as Gil seems to not trust Prince's ability (sometime rightly so) and is often being drawn, exposing gaps. I wonder if putting Stagg there would make a difference. He seemed to go very well there against the Sharks and the defence was pretty tight. We'd lose Gillett's impact both sides of the ball, but the safety of Stagg, even if doesn't hit as hard, may well be worth it. He's an excellent decision maker in defence.

 

[Renegade]

corey nowayman.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

He's "created" nothing. Go back and watch the replays.

You might want to go back and have another look at some of those replays yourself.

Norman has delivered a great pass to create tries for Reed or either Hoffman and Maranta on several occasions throughout the year.

To say he's created nothing is BS......

 

[Renegade]

yeah but he can butcher an overlap like no other, that you cannot deny.

 

[Mr Fourex]

yeah but he can butcher an overlap like no other, that you cannot deny.

Correct .......as someone who is still learning his craft, he like most players his age, is still prone to mistakes.

 

[Porthoz]

Correct .......as someone who is still learning his craft, he like most players his age, is still prone to mistakes.

He has no fucking heart. That has nothing to do with age!

I don't care if he was the most talented player in the world, he is not worthy of a Broncos jersey!

 

[Financeguy]

I agree with Porthoz, the guy just doesnt seem to have the heart or desire to be anything more than an average player. I see him as that kind of guy that if the team is up by 20 and well on top he enjoys getting involved but doing the hard grafting stuff doesnt seem to be his go.

IMO Norman can be thrown into the same basket as McCullough, Hunt, Copely, Wallace, Dodds, and Lui who to varying degrees, and varying reasons, none have kicked on to be the player myself or the club had hoped they would be. I'm a big believer in market forces and i think that if and when these players come onto the market it would only be the most desperate of clubs that would have a passing interest in signing them yet we have persisted for years.

 

[Big Pete]

I'll preface this by saying that I believe Norman deserves to be dropped.

However, to say Norman doesn't 'create' is really unfair and to give Prince the credit is bewildering. There are times where his spreads have contributed, but not every single time. Also, when does the buck stop? Why not give McGuire credit for his hit up? Or Hannant for a pass? To a certain degreee you could credit anybody for the try but in the end it's usually the last pass from Norman that creates the space for Hoffman (who is a fantastic finisher in his own right) and Maranta (who is one of the worst I've ever seen...) to score.

He's blown the odd opportunity sure - but so have a bunch of players in our team. Wallace, Prince, McCullough heck even Parker has killed opportunities by being ball hogs or not being able to organise their outside men properly.

In saying, I don't think that's the reason why he should be dropped. With that said, he isn't good enough in that department to make up for his habit of making costly mistakes, his generally poor kick returns and his lack of support play.

But that's where I just stand on the issue.

 

[Morkel]

I'll preface this by saying that I believe Norman deserves to be dropped.

However, to say Norman doesn't 'create' is really unfair and to give Prince the credit is bewildering. There are times where his spreads have contributed, but not every single time. Also, when does the buck stop? Why not give McGuire credit for his hit up? Or Hannant for a pass? To a certain degreee you could credit anybody for the try but in the end it's usually the last pass from Norman that creates the space for Hoffman (who is a fantastic finisher in his own right) and Maranta (who is one of the worst I've ever seen...) to score.

He's blown the odd opportunity sure - but so have a bunch of players in our team. Wallace, Prince, McCullough heck even Parker has killed opportunities by being ball hogs or not being able to organise their outside men properly.

In saying, I don't think that's the reason why he should be dropped. With that said, he isn't good enough in that department to make up for his habit of making costly mistakes, his generally poor kick returns and his lack of support play.

But that's where I just stand on the issue.

I don't like your opinion so will graciously ignore it ;)

 

[subsbligh]

Hook has to drop Norman, or the club has to drop Hook.

Honestly, the decision is a simple and as glaring as the nose on your face.

 

[Mr Fourex]

He has no fucking heart. That has nothing to do with age!

What is this assertion based on, exactly?

Is it purely his running style / kick returns ....or is there something else to it?

 

[subsbligh]

I'll preface this by saying that I believe Norman deserves to be dropped.

However, to say Norman doesn't 'create' is really unfair and to give Prince the credit is bewildering. There are times where his spreads have contributed, but not every single time. Also, when does the buck stop? Why not give McGuire credit for his hit up? Or Hannant for a pass? To a certain degreee you could credit anybody for the try but in the end it's usually the last pass from Norman that creates the space for Hoffman (who is a fantastic finisher in his own right) and Maranta (who is one of the worst I've ever seen...) to score.

He's blown the odd opportunity sure - but so have a bunch of players in our team. Wallace, Prince, McCullough heck even Parker has killed opportunities by being ball hogs or not being able to organise their outside men properly.

In saying, I don't think that's the reason why he should be dropped. With that said, he isn't good enough in that department to make up for his habit of making costly mistakes, his generally poor kick returns and his lack of support play.

But that's where I just stand on the issue.

The Broncos are lottery chance of the finals.

A good show (5/6 wins) will save Hook's bacon.

Short term, Norman is his best chance of that outcome.

Taking that view is really at the sacrifice of the medium term, the first half of 2014, by having to test partnerships and players in position THAT WE COULD BE DOING NOW!!

So, is it Hook, his head and Corey Norman, or back to the drawing board for 2014.

Surely the club would support the 2014 approach.

 

[subsbligh]

The fact that NO ONE back slapped or encouraged/consoled Norman after the dropped bomb and Sharks nail in the coffin try, pretty clearly indicates that his team mates don't have any faith in him.

He is the Julia Gillard of the Broncos.

May as well get Rudd (Bond? Hoffman? Kemp? - Kemp is probably apt given he was cut in 2010) in to put in a good show before the slaughter in September.

 

[Mr Fourex]

The fact that NO ONE back slapped or encouraged/consoled Norman after the dropped bomb and Sharks nail in the coffin try, pretty clearly indicates that his team mates don't have any faith in him.

That's just plain bullshit!

He looked gutted.......and Maranta helped pick him up off the ground.....and Prince came over as well. :001_rolleyes:

 

[broncos4life]

That's just plain bull****!

He looked gutted.......and Maranta helped pick him up off the ground.....and Prince came over as well. :001_rolleyes:

Kindred spirits

 

[Mr Fourex]

Oates slapped him on the back as well.......

 

[Porthoz]

He's blown the odd opportunity sure - but so have a bunch of players in our team. Wallace, Prince, McCullough heck even Parker has killed opportunities by being ball hogs or not being able to organise their outside men properly.

Sorry Pete, but to use a term currently in vogue, that is one asinine comment to make.
Sure, all those players take wrong options (way too many to be honest), but I haven't seen any of them botch the clear cut chances Norman has, and it's not the odd one, it's pretty much as regular as Maranta not finishing a try!

What is this assertion based on, exactly?

Is it purely his running style / kick returns ....or is there something else to it?

Kick returns and running style contribute, but more importantly, his lack of urgency in almost everything he does, especially in defense.
I have seen balls going to the ground and Norman being beat by other players (adversary or not) which were twice as far as him.
He is generally nowhere to be found in the kick chase, and I have not once see him put the body on the line to stop a try, not a single desperate effort in anything at all, nothing!

 

[Big Pete]

Sorry Pete, but to use a term currently in vogue, that is one asinine comment to make.
Sure, all those players take wrong options (way too many to be honest), but I haven't seen any of them botch the clear cut chances Norman has, and it's not the odd one, it's pretty much as regular as Maranta not finishing a try!

If you're going to label a point asinine you better come up with something better than 'nah uh' and vague examples. So I challenge you to name them.

Because if we're playing by your rules, the amount of times I've seen Wallace taken with the ball, unable to provide the quick tap on is incredible.

Prince also has the nasty habit of completely miss timing his passes and his runs which completely botches opportunities. Combined with his tendency to make bad errors close to the line (including...y'know...you know...) and to feign injury I'd say he's right up there on the botching mark.

Either way, it's not like Wallace or Prince are these amazing halves who know how to sum up a situation.