2024 pre-season discussion: Pre-season Premiers

[Broncorob]

I can agree with this, sometimes the talent needs luck to be put in their rightful position, I do think given his playing style we will not see his best unless he starts.

its about who os around them. small things. Cyril effect

 

[1910]

its not the best option....he neefs a Mam noment. Mam stank it up in Qcup. Got a chance in the bigs. smashed it . C9 got a chance smashed it. Mozer needs to get thrown in. I suspect KW knows that

cream rises

Mam's first 11 games in Cup were good, it was in 22 when he came back and played seven games, he looked disinterested- in a terrible side if he played now for Souths, I doubt you'd see that. He'd love playing under Hunt.

 

[McHunt]

I can agree with this, sometimes the talent needs luck to be put in their rightful position, I do think given his playing style we will not see his best unless he starts.

This will be a tough challenge for Kevvie I think, hurt your sons career who has been clearly on the up against a player who could be a future great.

It's a conundrum for Kevvie.

Unlike the start of last season, hooker is not broken. But that's involved needing two players to cover one position, with neither bringing anything unique.

I agree: Mozer must start, and get himself entrenched in that pure 9 role. You can't expect him to hit the ground running there, so the logical progression would be to bring him on with 20 to go for a few games.

Without labouring on the selection process, that means Smoothy is back to Cup, and Paix is left stinking up the salary cap. Billy isn't going to get dumped for either of those two. Let's not even enter that discussion.

Trouble is while Billy has been solid (good enough for a grand final) at 9, he hasn't looked that flash the few times he's returned in the second half. And he wasn't anything special the previous season when he played 14 with Turpin starting.

So the way I see it, not only will Mozer have to substantially lift his game to secure the 9, Billy needs to bring more to justify his inevitable selection at 14.

Or Kevvie continues with the status quo, which isn't broken, with a future superstar, hidden from sight, left holding his dick.

 

[BroncsFan]

It's a conundrum for Kevvie.

Unlike the start of last season, hooker is not broken. But that's involved needing two players to cover one position, with neither bringing anything unique.

I agree: Mozer must start, and get himself entrenched in that pure 9 role. You can't expect him to hit the ground running there, so the logical progression would be to bring him on with 20 to go for a few games.

Without labouring on the selection process, that means Smoothy is back to Cup, and Paix is left stinking up the salary cap. Billy isn't going to get dumped for either of those two. Let's not even enter that discussion.

Trouble is while Billy has been solid (good enough for a grand final) at 9, he hasn't looked that flash the few times he's returned in the second half. And he wasn't anything special the previous season when he played 14 with Turpin starting.

So the way I see it, not only will Mozer have to substantially lift his game to secure the 9, Billy needs to bring more to justify his inevitable selection at 14.

Or Kevvie continues with the status quo, which isn't broken, with a future superstar, hidden from sight, left holding his dick.

I would agree that Billy hasn't been as good when he's returned in a second stint and from 1910 I recall that Mozer was playing well at Souths, but then started losing form when Paix came in and was starting.

I think at Souths Paix and Mozer were effectively splitting the time 40/40, and potentially that wasn't long enough on the field for Mozer to adapt to the game.

Potentially the best approach moving forward is the one Melbourne had with Bsmith and Harry.

Smith would start the game, before Harry came on at 30mins and played the game out. Smith would then turn into a roving lock.

They did this because they had two gun hookers, but they also needed to because Harry wasnt effective playing 80 and they were getting more out of him by playing 50-60mins a game instead. It's basically what Qld origin do as well.

Billy obviously isnt suited to the quick ptb small forward role that Bsmith was playing, but he is probably our best defensive hooker.

Could there be an option where Billy's second stint (if needed) is relieving Patty at lock and becoming a ball playing middle... which we played a couple times except with Gamble being the ball playing lock.

That could bring a really interesting dynamic on the field if we needed to go all out attack to get points.

Haas and Patty as props, Billy as a ball playing lock, Mozer at dummy half, Reyno, Mam and Walsh making up the rest of the spine.

Not saying it's something we do from round 1, but it could be a setup that we get to eventually as Mozer develops and it becomes apparent that we need him on the field longer, but also need a dual hooker setup

 

[Fitzy]

I would agree that Billy hasn't been as good when he's returned in a second stint and from 1910 I recall that Mozer was playing well at Souths, but then started losing form when Paix came in and was starting.

I think at Souths Paix and Mozer were effectively splitting the time 40/40, and potentially that wasn't long enough on the field for Mozer to adapt to the game.

Potentially the best approach moving forward is the one Melbourne had with Bsmith and Harry.

Smith would start the game, before Harry came on at 30mins and played the game out. Smith would then turn into a roving lock.

They did this because they had two gun hookers, but they also needed to because Harry wasnt effective playing 80 and they were getting more out of him by playing 50-60mins a game instead. It's basically what Qld origin do as well.

Billy obviously isnt suited to the quick ptb small forward role that Bsmith was playing, but he is probably our best defensive hooker.

Could there be an option where Billy's second stint (if needed) is relieving Patty at lock and becoming a ball playing middle... which we played a couple times except with Gamble being the ball playing lock.

That could bring a really interesting dynamic on the field if we needed to go all out attack to get points.

Haas and Patty as props, Billy as a ball playing lock, Mozer at dummy half, Reyno, Mam and Walsh making up the rest of the spine.

Not saying it's something we do from round 1, but it could be a setup that we get to eventually as Mozer develops and it becomes apparent that we need him on the field longer, but also need a dual hooker setup

I just don’t get why the **** we would change even more of an already substantially changed grand final side to fit an unproven rookie in.

 

[McHunt]

I just don’t get why the **** we would change even more of an already substantially changed grand final side to fit an unproven rookie in.

Yes, Blake and Deine are obviously the future, but you would think Tyson and Jesse should have earned their spots for at least a few more games. Oates is a bit trickier.

 

[BroncsFan]

I just don’t get why the **** we would change even more of an already substantially changed grand final side to fit an unproven rookie in.

I specifically said we wouldn't do it for round 1 and it may be something that they MOVE TOWARDS IF IT BECOMES APPARENT THAT MOZER NEEDS TO BE ON THE FIELD LONGER.

Who the **** knows when that point in time will happen... it may not even happen this fucking year, but the original comment I was quoting was about Kevvie's conundrum on how to integrate Mozer into the team.

 

[1910]

I just don’t get why the **** we would change even more of an already substantially changed grand final side to fit an unproven rookie in.

That is the point of the discussion, if Mozer’s form warrants selection but not starting what is the best role. As I stated I don’t think he’s best suited to just a standard 20 minutes based on last season.

 

[1910]

I specifically said we wouldn't do it for round 1 and it may be something that they MOVE TOWARDS IF IT BECOMES APPARENT THAT MOZER NEEDS TO BE ON THE FIELD LONGER.

Who the **** knows when that point in time will happen... it may not even happen this fucking year, but the original comment I was quoting was about Kevvie's conundrum on how to integrate Mozer into the team.

I see the issue arising if Mozer’s form is good enough for NRL but not good enough for starting and getting 60 minutes. After last season I’m just not sure he’s suited to a bench hooker.

 

[Fitzy]

That is the point of the discussion, if Mozer’s form warrants selection but not starting what is the best role. As I stated I don’t think he’s best suited to just a standard 20 minutes based on last season.

I 100% get where the discussion is coming from but I personally don’t think any hooker in the game currently is worth moving Patty out of 13 and Walters into it for a stint. He either snags the 9 jumper outright or he just simply just doesn’t play if that’s the case. We went to a grand final last year and as much as Mozer is crucial to our future that’s not a great solution to fitting him in the side.

I don't necessarily think Mozer needs to be that impactful in the traditional sense of a burst of energy. I think he needs enough minutes to find some rythym, combos and tempo around the ruck and he will be sweet. Magpies rely a lot more on him than we will be at 14 for us. As much as he was a star player in that Tweed side still his role will probably correlate more towards what he was doing there than currently at Souths wouldn’t you think?

 

[Johnny92]

I would agree that Billy hasn't been as good when he's returned in a second stint and from 1910 I recall that Mozer was playing well at Souths, but then started losing form when Paix came in and was starting.

I think at Souths Paix and Mozer were effectively splitting the time 40/40, and potentially that wasn't long enough on the field for Mozer to adapt to the game.

Potentially the best approach moving forward is the one Melbourne had with Bsmith and Harry.

Smith would start the game, before Harry came on at 30mins and played the game out. Smith would then turn into a roving lock.

They did this because they had two gun hookers, but they also needed to because Harry wasnt effective playing 80 and they were getting more out of him by playing 50-60mins a game instead. It's basically what Qld origin do as well.

Billy obviously isnt suited to the quick ptb small forward role that Bsmith was playing, but he is probably our best defensive hooker.

Could there be an option where Billy's second stint (if needed) is relieving Patty at lock and becoming a ball playing middle... which we played a couple times except with Gamble being the ball playing lock.

That could bring a really interesting dynamic on the field if we needed to go all out attack to get points.

Haas and Patty as props, Billy as a ball playing lock, Mozer at dummy half, Reyno, Mam and Walsh making up the rest of the spine.

Not saying it's something we do from round 1, but it could be a setup that we get to eventually as Mozer develops and it becomes apparent that we need him on the field longer, but also need a dual hooker setup

If this was to happen in attacking positions I'd probably have Mam playing both sides following Walsh around and have Billy sitting on the left to feed early ball to Cobbo.

 

[BroncosFever]

Even Harry Grant, for as good as he is (and he’s pretty damn good).. isn’t an 80 minute player.

 

[Santa]

Even Harry Grant, for as good as he is (and he’s pretty damn good).. isn’t an 80 minute player.

I don't think there are many 80 minute hookers (who are good) anymore, especially after the 6 again rule changes.

 

[McHunt]

Even Harry Grant, for as good as he is (and he’s pretty damn good).. isn’t an 80 minute player.

I don't think there are many 80 minute hookers (who are good) anymore, especially after the 6 again rule changes.

No, but ours aren't even 40 minute hookers. Billy played two stints in the Grand Final: 29, and then 14. Tyson played 10 minutes before half time and 26 minutes after. So we used up 2 interchanges just on hookers. Billy's first half was pretty great, but he was gassed in the second. Tyson was decent in both his short stretches. It would be better if Billy or ultimately Blake could play at least ten minutes into the second half, and the utility could come in and carve it up.

But that said, the combo got us into the Grand Final so it's hard to argue with that.

 

[Santa]

No, but ours aren't even 40 minute hookers. Billy played two stints in the Grand Final: 29, and then 14. Tyson played 10 minutes before half time and 26 minutes after. So we used up 2 interchanges just on hookers. Billy's first half was pretty great, but he was gassed in the second. Tyson was decent in both his short stretches. It would be better if Billy or ultimately Blake could play at least ten minutes into the second half, and the utility could come in and carve it up.

But that said, the combo got us into the Grand Final so it's hard to argue with that.

I think during the season it was common practice for Billy to come off in the 2nd half. I've never seen the stats, but maybe all the errors (and therefore extra defense) against Penrith gassed him early. Billy is a toiler and works well as a starter, but I think he should only come back on for injury cover (but maybe Smoothy was gassed too).

 

[BroncsFan]

I think during the season it was common practice for Billy to come off in the 2nd half. I've never seen the stats, but maybe all the errors (and therefore extra defense) against Penrith gassed him early. Billy is a toiler and works well as a starter, but I think he should only come back on for injury cover (but maybe Smoothy was gassed too).

Billy often played over 40mins... below are the minutes of our hookers each week last year.

 

[McHunt]

Billy often played over 40mins... below are the minutes of our hookers each week last year.

View attachment 25754

There's more detail than that if you drill down. Round 11, for example, Billy had to cover for Adam Reynolds who went off after 17 minutes. That's why he played 80. We lost that game.

Kevvie mucked around quite a bit with the rotation. Again, it's a bit hard to knock his bench tactics when we made it to the Grand Final.

 

[Fitzy]

No, but ours aren't even 40 minute hookers. Billy played two stints in the Grand Final: 29, and then 14. Tyson played 10 minutes before half time and 26 minutes after. So we used up 2 interchanges just on hookers. Billy's first half was pretty great, but he was gassed in the second. Tyson was decent in both his short stretches. It would be better if Billy or ultimately Blake could play at least ten minutes into the second half, and the utility could come in and carve it up.

But that said, the combo got us into the Grand Final so it's hard to argue with that.

I don’t really have an issue with anything about our hooker rotation at the minute. Bill struggles a bit for impact when he comes back on at times sure but imo for how much we are spending on hookers the combination is a dream.

Not necessarily that against the 2 interchanges regardless of the current combo or Mozer in the future. I think you want your best team on the park at the start and finish. Other than that I’d go a 45-35 split of minutes and go 25 Billy, 35 Mozer, 20 Billy. I think gone are the tackle bot hooker days providing enough in attack and that means that minutes will start to trend more towards that of a middle forward. I think tactically it’s a good extra interchange to use in the current state of the game.