Ashes Discussion

[Fitzy]

Pakistan and next 12 month Test squad candidates:

Yeah I’d probably have these blokes written down as the upcoming candidates for Pakistan tour:
Key:
Lock -
Fighting -
Unlikely -

Openers:
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Street
4. Hunt
5. Harris (once he’s dropped he’s done otherwise he is 3)
6. Pucovski (unlikely not worth rushing)

I’d say Warner, Khawaja and one of Street, Hunt or Harris will go. ill be very dependent on shield form

Middle order:
1. Labuschagne
2. Smith
3. Head
4. Green
5. Marsh ()
6. Maddison
7. McDermott
8. Phillippe ()
9. Renshaw ()

I’m pretty certain 4 starters and Marsh will go. Up to 2 more will go can see McDermott than likely Maddison but Phillipe has been in good Nick in red ball since his technique refinements.

Wicketkeeper
1. Carey
2. Inglis ()
3. Peirson

Carey is a lock pending no injuries. Inglis will likely go but if he can’t find form and McDermott or Phillippe do they might be take as backups

Fast Bowlers
1. Cummins
2. Hazlewood
3. Starc
4. Richardson ()
5. Boland ()
6. Neser
7. Steketee

I can see all 6 going obviously the main 3 are in and although Richardson and Boland have bowled better I think Neser with his batting ability will help with spin options. Also is great off-field. If they deem 6 isn’t necessary cause of Green and Marsh Boland and Richardson are fighting it out for me.


Spin Bowlers
1. Lyon
2. Swepson

Both are locks

A big squad will be heading to Pakistan with covid a Big one. Expect possibly 20+. Usually tour with 18 and we have about 18 for a home series at the moment.

Current side +Hoff, NES, Richo, Swepson, Head, Marsh, Inglis

squad:
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Street/Hunt
4. Labuschagne
5. Smith (VC)
6. Head
7. Green
9. Marsh
10. McDermott
11. Phillippe (/Maddinson)
12. Carey
13. Inglis (might be deemed unnecessary)
14. Cummins (C)
15. Hazlewood
16. Starc
17. Boland
18. Neser
19. Richardson
20. Lyon
21. Swepson

 

[The True King]

You just can't let it go can you?

I am allowed to mention his name in here yeah?

I have acknowledged when he's bowled well and I have also called him out when he's bowled crap. Are you capable of the latter?

 

[BroncosFever]

I am allowed to mention his name in here yeah?

I have acknowledged when he's bowled well and I have also called him out when he's bowled crap. Are you capable of the latter?

I think they batted well, actually. They've definitely been far more aggressive today and they've probably looked as dangerous as they have all series, just a shame it's taken them this long.

You and Nathan Lyon though, it's like you have a personal thing against him. My opinion is that Green has been very ordinary with bat in hand so far but I don't look at Green and analyse him and bring him down wherever I possibly can. I feel the same way about Marcus Harris as well but it's just my opinion as a fan of the Aussie cricket team and wanting them to succeed, with you I feel like you want Nathan Lyon to fail.

 

[The True King]

I think they batted well, actually. They've definitely been far more aggressive today and they've probably looked as dangerous as they have all series, just a shame it's taken them this long.

You and Nathan Lyon though, it's like you have a personal thing against him. My opinion is that Green has been very ordinary with bat in hand so far but I don't look at Green and analyse him and bring him down wherever I possibly can. I feel the same way about Marcus Harris as well but it's just my opinion as a fan of the Aussie cricket team and wanting them to succeed, with you I feel like you want Nathan Lyon to fail.

You did a very good job of avoiding the question. I agree they have batted well (compared to previous tests) but they have still lost 7 wickets for just over 250 runs.

I'll re-phrase it, do you think Lyon has bowled well today?

This isn't about how I feel personally about him or whether I want him to succeed or not.

 

[BroncosFever]

You did a very good job of avoiding the question. I agree they have batted well (compared to previous tests) but they have still lost 7 wickets for just over 250 runs.

I'll re-phrase it, do you think Lyon has bowled well today?

You avoided one yourself there with my insinuation that you have a genuine personal hatred towards Nathan Lyon, he must've smashed your missus or your something. I need you to confirm/deny and then state the reason you have it in for him so bad.

Nathan Lyon is consistent in how he bowls, be it "good or bad", you tend to let results determine that, I tend to watch the game and see if he is bowling good or bad deliveries and just on today, no I don't think he bowled bad deliveries. I think they batted well and were made to earn their runs and credit to them for doing that. You can still bowl well and get tonked.

 

[holdzy]

England have batted a lot more bravely but some of the bowling today was pretty pedestrian. Settled into the grind instead of being creative with so many runs to play with. England shouldn't have passed 150.

 

[holdzy]

Fantastic knock.

 

[BroncosFever]

This isn't about how I feel personally about him or whether I want him to succeed or not.

Yes it is, everything you say is based around how you personally feel about him because I am telling you straight up, he has 400+ wickets and will go down as one of the greats, you can't see it and you look like a fool as a result of it.

 

[Fitzy]

Well done Johnny. Worked so hard and persisted. One issue I have with that is nobody in that England dressing room looked genuinely happy for him. Must be a bitter dressing room at the moment.

but more importantly hats off to Johnny he has resurrected any chance England have at a non losing result.

 

[BroncosFever]

Well done Johnny. Worked so hard and persisted. One issue I have with that is nobody in that England dressing room looked genuinely happy for him. Must be a bitter dressing room at the moment.

but more importantly hats off to Johnny he has resurrected any chance England have at a non losing result.

They know deep down they aren't going to win, nice for Johnny and all that but ultimately, England are going to be batting last on a pitch that is already showing some inconsistent bounce, I reckon we will have about 100 runs lead heading into our 2nd innings too.

 

[The True King]

You avoided one yourself there with my insinuation that you have a genuine personal hatred towards Nathan Lyon, he must've smashed your missus or your something. I need you to confirm/deny and then state the reason you have it in for him so bad.

Nathan Lyon is consistent in how he bowls, be it "good or bad", you tend to let results determine that, I tend to watch the game and see if he is bowling good or bad deliveries and just on today, no I don't think he bowled bad deliveries. I think they batted well and were made to earn their runs and credit to them for doing that. You can still bowl well and get tonked.

I don't have any issue admitting I don't like him. He's consisently choked in big tests.

It started against RSA in 2016/17 when they toured Aus. In the 1st test, they had a 2 run deficit leading into the 2nd innings in Perth. He didn't take a single wicket with figures of 0/146. RSA scored 540 and won the test. RSA went on to win that series and Lyon had an average of 57.66.

I forgave him for that. Then came the Ashes in England, 2019. We were up 1-0 in the series heading into the 2nd test. After both teams scored similar 1st innings totals on a pitch that was turning a mile (Leach took 3/37), in the England 2nd innings he took 0/102 and didn't look like taking a wicket. England put themselves in a dominant position and we were lucky to get away with a draw.

Then there was the infamous 3rd test, day 5. England needed 360 to win and were 3/150 after day 4. Day 5 pitch and in the moment you expect your spinner to step up, he took 2/114 and barely threatened. The figures don't show it but Stokes was basically taking a single off his bowling on the 5th/6th ball of every over. On top of that, he then missed a simple run out that your nan could have taken.. There were a bunch of other moments that hurt us that test but that moment for me was unforgivable.

Then India came to Australia in 2020/21. With the series at 1-1 heading into the 3rd test, Australia won the toss and batted. We were in an unlosable position and set India a 4th innings target of 407. Again, when you'd expect your spinner to show up late on day 4 and into day 5, he was rubbish. He took 2/114, bowling an incredible 46 overs. India got a draw. In the 4th test in Brisbane we would set them a target of 300+ to win the series, batting 4th they chased it down on the final day - again, when you'd expect your spinner to get you home, he couldn't. He averaged 55.11 for the series and was completely out bowled by their spinners. The first time I ever remember us losing to India at home.

Those are the defining moments that have led to my dislike of him, he hasn't met my missus or anything like that. I'm happy for his 400 test wickets and recognise that we may not have anyone better to replace him. However, he has choked when we needed him and after personally watching those tests, I won't be changing my opinion on him.

He went for near on 6 runs an over, was constantly criticised by the commentary team for not putting flight on the ball... and you maintain he didn't bowl any bad deliveries today. Dont worry, I am the only bias one here apparently.

 

[Blindside Bronco]

I'm a dog person too.

 

[BooKhaki]

Pakistan and next 12 month Test squad candidates:

Yeah I’d probably have these blokes written down as the upcoming candidates for Pakistan tour:
Key:
Lock -
Fighting -
Unlikely -

Openers:
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Street
4. Hunt
5. Harris (once he’s dropped he’s done otherwise he is 3)
6. Pucovski (unlikely not worth rushing)

I’d say Warner, Khawaja and one of Street, Hunt or Harris will go. ill be very dependent on shield form

Middle order:
1. Labuschagne
2. Smith
3. Head
4. Green
5. Marsh ()
6. Maddison
7. McDermott
8. Phillippe ()
9. Renshaw ()

I’m pretty certain 4 starters and Marsh will go. Up to 2 more will go can see McDermott than likely Maddison but Phillipe has been in good Nick in red ball since his technique refinements.

Wicketkeeper
1. Carey
2. Inglis ()
3. Peirson

Carey is a lock pending no injuries. Inglis will likely go but if he can’t find form and McDermott or Phillippe do they might be take as backups

Fast Bowlers
1. Cummins
2. Hazlewood
3. Starc
4. Richardson ()
5. Boland ()
6. Neser
7. Steketee

I can see all 6 going obviously the main 3 are in and although Richardson and Boland have bowled better I think Neser with his batting ability will help with spin options. Also is great off-field. If they deem 6 isn’t necessary cause of Green and Marsh Boland and Richardson are fighting it out for me.


Spin Bowlers
1. Lyon
2. Swepson

Both are locks

A big squad will be heading to Pakistan with covid a Big one. Expect possibly 20+. Usually tour with 18 and we have about 18 for a home series at the moment.

Current side +Hoff, NES, Richo, Swepson, Head, Marsh, Inglis

squad:
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Street/Hunt
4. Labuschagne
5. Smith (VC)
6. Head
7. Green
9. Marsh
10. McDermott
11. Phillippe (/Maddinson)
12. Carey
13. Inglis (might be deemed unnecessary)
14. Cummins (C)
15. Hazlewood
16. Starc
17. Boland
18. Neser
19. Richardson
20. Lyon
21. Swepson

I think we will see guys like Maxwell and Agar tour to cover as a 2nd spinner/spinning all rounder, although less needed now with Marnus.

 

[Fitzy]

I think we will see guys like Maxwell and Agar tour to cover as a 2nd spinner/spinning all rounder, although less needed now with Marnus.

I didn’t think of either them actually. Yeah I reckon Maxi probably could go but I might be a bit skeptical about Agar for red ball these days especially if Maxi is in the side. Also got Marny as you said

 

[BroncosFever]

I don't have any issue admitting I don't like him. He's consisently choked in big tests.

It started against RSA in 2016/17 when they toured Aus. In the 1st test, they had a 2 run deficit leading into the 2nd innings in Perth. He didn't take a single wicket with figures of 0/146. RSA scored 540 and won the test. RSA went on to win that series and Lyon had an average of 57.66.

I forgave him for that. Then came the Ashes in England, 2019. We were up 1-0 in the series heading into the 2nd test. After both teams scored similar 1st innings totals on a pitch that was turning a mile (Leach took 3/37), in the England 2nd innings he took 0/102 and didn't look like taking a wicket. England put themselves in a dominant position and we were lucky to get away with a draw.

Then there was the infamous 3rd test, day 5. England needed 360 to win and were 3/150 after day 4. Day 5 pitch and in the moment you expect your spinner to step up, he took 2/114 and barely threatened. The figures don't show it but Stokes was basically taking a single off his bowling on the 5th/6th ball of every over. On top of that, he then missed a simple run out that your nan could have taken.. There were a bunch of other moments that hurt us that test but that moment for me was unforgivable.

Then India came to Australia in 2020/21. With the series at 1-1 heading into the 3rd test, Australia won the toss and batted. We were in an unlosable position and set India a 4th innings target of 407. Again, when you'd expect your spinner to show up late on day 4 and into day 5, he was rubbish. He took 2/114, bowling an incredible 46 overs. India got a draw. In the 4th test in Brisbane we would set them a target of 300+ to win the series, batting 4th they chased it down on the final day - again, when you'd expect your spinner to get you home, he couldn't. He averaged 55.11 for the series and was completely out bowled by their spinners. The first time I ever remember us losing to India at home.

Those are the defining moments that have led to my dislike of him, he hasn't met my missus or anything like that. I'm happy for his 400 test wickets and recognise that we may not have anyone better to replace him. However, he has choked when we needed him and after personally watching those tests, I won't be changing my opinion on him.

He went for near on 6 runs an over, was constantly criticised by the commentary team for not putting flight on the ball... and you maintain he didn't bowl any bad deliveries today. Dont worry, I am the only bias one here apparently.

You make some good points but also you can't lay it all on Nathan Lyon as being the primary reason we didn't win some of those games.

That Ben Stokes innings for example, Marcus Harris drops one in the outfield, Nathan Lyon also had one of them dead in front but Tim Paine elected to waste a review on one that pitched outside leg (not sure exactly which batsmen was on strike, would've won us the game whoever it was). Sure he made a meal of the run out attempt but anyone can make those mistakes under pressure.

As for India, they grow up on spinning low bouncing pitches, if there was ever a team in world cricket you'd back to take down a spinner, it would be India and it absolutely would have been in their team talks, as it would be for any team. Take down the spinner and expose the quicks, that's how you break down any attack.

It would be nice for him to completely destroy a batting line up but the reality of it is that very few spinners are capable of that, not since Warne/Murali have we seen someone who can consistently do that. Ashwin on his day against the right line up on a pitch that suits can do it. I don't know what you expect him to do, he does a more than serviceable job and has extracted every ounce of ability that he has to be one of the most consistent bowlers going around and I think that's the keyword for Nathan Lyon, consistency. There is nobody else we have in our stocks that could do a better job, I know you grew up watching "the spin king" and that's probably what you expect of any bloke who steps into the team to bowl spin but it's not reality. He is probably the greatest we will ever see, Shane Warne that is.

I will give you the spoiler, the next bloke who steps in won't be as good as Nathan Lyon has been, let alone Shane Warne. So I look forward to you plastering that bloke, too.

 

[Big Del]

knowing the conditions in the sub-continent,

That`s interesting !
Pakistan haven`t played a home test in 10 years but you know how their pitches play ?
Insight !!!

 

[Big Del]

I don’t agree with Sangha anywhere in the next 5-6 years unless he does something really special. Swepson is levels above him and still isn’t able to get a baggy green. Leg spinners need to mature before playing red ball cricket internationally. Actually you could argue playing any international cricket format. Evidenced in Zampa who is one of the best if not best and most consistent white ball spinners in the world and Swepson some of the things he has achieved in shield since maturing is exceptional. He is definitely a give him some time and a lot of it in shield player.

Zampa has tailored his game for economy in white ball cricket .
To spin the ball sideways needs a lower arm . Which leads to inaccuracy . Zampa has settled on a high arm action and top spinners and wrong uns as his staple .

 

[Big Del]

It’s because the new broadcasters took the worst bits of channel 9 and thought that’s what people want.

Warne rambling
Token horrible sounding Brit commentator
Awful intro and outro music
Mark Howard / James Brayshaw stereotype
Mark Waugh’s cluelessness

All the ass kissing of their fellow commentators gets old quick .
Back when ...

And Fcking Sco Mo ! Don`t talk when the bowler is running in . Didn`t they teach you that at the fancy private school across the street from the SCG ?