Australia vs New Zealand - Match Thread + Post Match Discussion

[Porthoz]

Yep. But simply making it a penalty to attack the legs as the "3rd man" in while a player is held up would stop the practice pretty quick.

Simply make it a reportable offense if you throw yourself at a player's legs while he is being held, be it as 2nd, 3rd or 8th man in... But like Browny said, just wrapiing the legs shouldn't be punishable imo.

 

[Coxy]

Simply make it a reportable offense if you throw yourself at a player's legs while he is being held, be it as 2nd, 3rd or 8th man in... But like Browny said, just wrapiing the legs shouldn't be punishable imo.

I tend to agree but disagree... I think if a player is held up top by 2+ players, and they're not strong enough to pull the tackled player down, tough titties. One of them should slide down and take the legs instead. I hate 3rd/4th/5th man into tackles. The tackled player's teammates can't come in and help, so why should the defence be able to bring in reinforcements after the initial tackle?

 

[Porthoz]

I tend to agree but disagree... I think if a player is held up top by 2+ players, and they're not strong enough to pull the tackled player down, tough titties. One of them should slide down and take the legs instead. I hate 3rd/4th/5th man into tackles. The tackled player's teammates can't come in and help, so why should the defence be able to bring in reinforcements after the initial tackle?

They do so at their own risk. The more players in a tackle, the more players are out of position and there will be an overlap somewhere! As long as they don't put the player's physical integrity in jeopardy, through things like chicken wing, grapple or in this case, the prowler...

 

[Coxy]

It would also help if referees called held earlier.

 

[Porthoz]

It would also help if referees called held earlier.

I don't know about that. Chances are it would rob the game from one of it's more spectacular aspects in the second phase plays...

 

[Coxy]

Well IMO you have 2 options:
1. Call held earlier
2. Outlaw any late tackling around the legs

If you leave it more open ended than that then you get no action done and you will have incidents like this happen.
You can't expect players to be able to judge the difference between "wrapping up" and "driving at" the legs in a split second. If they know that once a player is held by others the legs are off limits, then there's no issue.

 

[Porthoz]

Well IMO you have 2 options:
1. Call held earlier
2. Outlaw any late tackling around the legs

If you leave it more open ended than that then you get no action done and you will have incidents like this happen.
You can't expect players to be able to judge the difference between "wrapping up" and "driving at" the legs in a split second. If they know that once a player is held by others the legs are off limits, then there's no issue.

Really... Why not?

Oh wait... I see your point! We're talking about the Sandow's and Luke's of this world... :rolleyes:

 

[Coxy]

Really... Why not?

Oh wait... I see your point! We're talking about the Sandow's and Luke's of this world... :rolleyes:

And we're talking about players who are coming in from some distance to finish off a tackle. Consciously remembering not to "Drive" into the tackle and just wrap legs up is going to result in more errors of judgment - and those errors could end players' seasons.

If they know they can't hit lower than the waist, then they'll either stay right out, or try and help up top to pull the guy down instead.

 

[Je$ter]

Storm do the third man legs tackle in a way that won't get penalised. They 3rd guy doesn't go in to dive or spear at the legs the actually wrap up, whereas the tackle Isaac 'I try to act tough but I'm a cat' Luke did was supremley dangerous and isn't even that effective.

 

[Bucking Beads]

It's called good coaching when the storm invent another tackle that is illegal and grubby..

 

[Je$ter]

It is good coaching. Coming up with something nobody has thought of before and applying it so well is good coaching. Once it's outlawed it's illegal and not disagreeing that it isn't grubby. But it is good coaching.

 

[Coxy]

It is good coaching. Coming up with something nobody has thought of before and applying it so well is good coaching. Once it's outlawed it's illegal and not disagreeing that it isn't grubby. But it is good coaching.

Yeah I just don't like that attitude. There's a thing called the spirit of the game, and it seems the Storm (or bellamy at least) doesn't give a #### about that and is only about finding an advantage.

 

[mrslong]

I don't know. I remember Allan Langer used to tackle a certain effective way, then it was outlawed. Pretty sure we Broncos fans thought it was clever tackling, but the rest of the NRL thought it was grubby.

Reckon it's in the eye of the beholder.

I hate the way the Storm slow the play the ball down, but I reckon the ref's don't call held soon enough when the Storm play. It's like they wait for the 3rd man in.


----
On that Allan Langer tackle, I've seen a few players doing that lately...holding them up then trying to trip them over. It makes me so mad, cos if ALfy was playing he'd be penalised every time. :sigh:

 

[Coxy]

But Alfie wasn't coached to do it. He just chose that as a technique to help him overcome his size disadvantage.
It's different when a club systematically coaches its players to use a technique that is clearly not strictly how the game should be played simply to gain an advantage.

 

[Big Pete]

Teams were coached to slow the ruck down well before Bellamy had anything to do with Melbourne.

 

[Coxy]

Teams were coached to slow the ruck down well before Bellamy had anything to do with Melbourne.

I'm aware of that. Bellamy has "pioneered" the use of wrestling and multi-tackler techniques in a way that is particularly grubby and against the spirit of the game IMO. Much like Saddam "pioneered" the use of chemical warfare on his political rivals...he wasn't the first to wipe out his political rivals, but he was particularly gruesome about it.

Yes, I compared Bellamy to Saddam Hussein.

 

[Anonymous person]

theres nothing grubby about the way melbourne do the 'third man to the legs' tackle.

personally i dont like being able to trip players at all, i think thats bad. shouldnt matter if youve got 2 hands on them (thats the rule that was brought in to stop alfies way of tripping players), it should still be outlawed IMO.

 

[Coxy]

I still think it should be a penalty to come in to a tackle late. The trouble will be defining what's late.