Barba vs Boyd

Unbreakable said:
The whole idea that Bennett is angling towards is having a guy who you know what you're going to get from each week playing at Fullback, we know that Hunt and Milford have some games where they go completely invisible, it's bound to happen, Bennett doesn't want to risk having 3 guys in the spine who at any given stage could turn up a complete shocker.
Click to expand...

Unless he's turfing McCullough that's exactly what he is going to get.
 
2011 wasn't shabby either, and 2013/2014 were affected by a lot of external factors.

Boyd's form hasn't even come close to his 2010, and outside of this season, he doesn't really have any excuses, does he?
 
We don't really know how long Boyd has been depressed for do we? I mean, he's never at any point in his career appeared to be very happy.

If I recall correctly, Boyd was actually the Dally M favourite in 2010 and only just got beaten. And he won a premiership with Soward and Hornby as halves, who IMO are way worse than Hunt and Milford, so it's not really like he'd be that dependent on his halves.

And he is also much safer than Barba at the back. However, none of this changes the fact he'd cost at least 50% more than Barba and his arrival would make Barba relatively useless to us. In a salary cap world, I just don't see how you could justify buying Boyd.
 
Porthoz said:
Pretty sure Hoffman will be very happy to stay if he gets the fullback spot.
Boyd can't take a back ended deal, his contract has to be at least equal to the one at Newcastle.

Boyd does have an edge over Hoffman, but he's not even close to be as good defensively. Regardless, neither holds a candle to Barba.
Click to expand...



Just for for the sake of comparison and because I find it hard to believe you'd say this but.....for the 2014 season.

Hoffman played 20 Games for 54 missed tackles @ 19.35% of attempted tackles
Barba played 24 Games for 38 missed tackles @ 17.19% of attempted tackles
Boyd played 14 Games for.......drum roll please .....11 missed tackles !!!!! @ 14 % of attempted tackles

So Hoffman was missing 2 1/2 tackles a game
Barba was slightly better at just under 2 tackles a game
and Boyd missed even less than 1 per game

You're a big guy Porthoz...big enough to admit that amazing statement about Boyd
not being as good as Hoffman defensively is way off ?
 
Do you have a bombs dropped stat there at all? I remember Hoffman dropping a couple but he never really looks shaky or nervy when going for them.

There were a couple of times where I think Boyd literally thought they were bombs because he'd almost be afraid to touch them.
 
Isn't Barba's deal back-ended? It may not seem like the best short term decision but Bennett is always about long term success.

Barba had his strong points and knew how to score a try scoring 15 (2010), 23 (2011) and 13 (2013) respectively but his reliability at the back and in the halves was poor (even Roberts was a better option in 2010) and none of that form touched the completeness that was 2012.

The way I see it...

Some of you want to gamble in the hopes of watching a Milford and Barba partnership tearing it up.

The others are happy to trust in the most successful coach and his more balanced vision of Rugby League.

Both are fine I just hope when a decision is made, one way or another, we give it time and don't inundate every thread with Barba or Boyd-watch posts.
 
Ari Gold said:
Do you have a bombs dropped stat there at all? I remember Hoffman dropping a couple but he never really looks shaky or nervy when going for them.

There were a couple of times where I think Boyd literally thought they were bombs because he'd almost be afraid to touch them.
Click to expand...

Exactly. :laugh:

The game needs more specific stats. Imagine Hoffman and Norman's over-lap blown spot? Or Wallace's 'sacked' stat?
 
Big Pete said:
Some of you want to gamble in the hopes of watching a Milford and Barba partnership tearing it up.

The others are happy to trust in the most successful coach and his more balanced vision of Rugby League.
Click to expand...

And some of us would be perfectly happy to get rid of Barba but want Milford at fullback and Taylor in the halves :)
 
Foordy said:
True but Boyd wasn't any better
Click to expand...

Boyd, even with a bad season in 2014 still outshone both Barba and Hoffman and the stats tell the story.
Boyd also scored 3 tries whereas Hoffman scored 1 ( ironically against the Knights )
Barba (7) out scored Boyd but one must bear in mind he played 10 more games. Had Boyd continued he would in all likelihood have scored close to the same as Barba.
 
Again, I am not saying Boyd tore it up or even had a great season just that in the interests of balance and fairness we cannot say he was terrible without saying Barba and Hoffman were considerably worse.
 
Huge said:
Again, I am not saying Boyd tore it up or even had a great season just that in the interests of balance and fairness we cannot say he was terrible without saying Barba and Hoffman were considerably worse.
Click to expand...

I don't think Barba and Hoffman were considerably worse than Boyd... I think they were all shit.

But if our saviour could get all three to play their best footy, then Barba's best is far better than either Boyds or Hoffmans.

But either Boyd or Hoffman would be great to have on the WING for us
 
Big Pete said:
Exactly. :laugh:

The game needs more specific stats. Imagine Hoffman and Norman's over-lap blown spot? Or Wallace's 'sacked' stat?
Click to expand...


The only stat I could find was the generic errors which I suppose would include dropped bombs.... Boyd had 11 for his 14 games , Hoffman was better in an average sense with 14 over his 20 games but Barba was terrible with 38 errors in his 24 games. Stats can be manipulated but these stats tell a pretty good story. Of course some things don't make it into the stats but nevertheless, Boyd went better than both Hoffman and Barba in 2014. It is even more meritorious if you consider his state of mind and personal battles. Naturally, he played reasonably well in State of Origin too.
 
I actually think Barba's "Best" will still be considerably worse than what he did in 2012, that was a sort of all planets aligning season, and 90% of the plays they ran were designed to get him in open space.. there's no chance in hell he ever plays as good he did in 2012, probably won't even come close to be honest.
 
I doubt we will ever see Barba of 2012 again unless we get high quality coaching, a consistently strong forward pack that doesn't get beaten and a good structure that includes him. It was the Bulldogs coaching and structure that made his good in 2012.
 
Huge said:
[/B]

Just for for the sake of comparison and because I find it hard to believe you'd say this but.....for the 2014 season.

Hoffman played 20 Games for 54 missed tackles @ 19.35% of attempted tackles
Barba played 24 Games for 38 missed tackles @ 17.19% of attempted tackles
Boyd played 14 Games for.......drum roll please .....11 missed tackles !!!!! @ 14 % of attempted tackles

So Hoffman was missing 2 1/2 tackles a game
Barba was slightly better at just under 2 tackles a game
and Boyd missed even less than 1 per game

You're a big guy Porthoz...big enough to admit that amazing statement about Boyd
not being as good as Hoffman defensively is way off ?
Click to expand...
I rarely use stats to base my statements on. I watch games and performances and look at stats for more detailed information.
What I observed was a Barba growing throughout 2014, especially once he moved to 5/8, while Boyd stagnated throughout the season.

The 2014 stats are fatally flawed, because while Boyd played all his games at fullback, Hoffman and Barba played a significant amount at 5/8, meaning they made many more tackles than Boyd in the defensive line, as opposed to last ditch attempts, which are often most tackles done by a fullback.

Here are the stats for all three players for their games exclusively as Fullback:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Attack
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tries[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Try Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Line Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]LB Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Runs[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]Meters[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackle Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Offloads[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg/Run[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]155[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1254[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Darius Boyd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]155[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1588[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]59[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Josh Hoffman showing his lack of attacking prowess, with Barba and Boyd very close, Boyd breaking more tackles, Barba more offloads.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Defense
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackles[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1 on 1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Inef/Missed[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg Missed
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Errors
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Penalties[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg/G[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]73[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6+14=20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.25[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Darius Boyd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]67[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11+8=19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.36[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1+6=7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.40[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The funny part is that except for the Errors, Barba has the wood over the others defensively.

The 5/8 stats for Hoffman and Barba, tell their own story, with Barba beating Hoffman pretty much everywhere...

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Attack
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tries[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Try Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Line Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]LB Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Runs[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]Meters[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackle Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Offloads[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg/Run[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]145[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1268[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]416[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Defense
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackles[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1 on 1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Inef/Missed
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg Missed
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Errors[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Penalties[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]210[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13+43=56[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.73[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]106[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10+12=24[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
Porthoz said:
The 5/8 stats for Hoffman and Barba, tell their own story, with Barba beating Hoffman pretty much everywhere...

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Attack
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tries[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Try Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Line Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]LB Assists[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Runs[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]Meters[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackle Brk[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Offloads[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg/Run[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]145[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1268[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]416[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Defense
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Games[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tackles[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1 on 1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Inef/Missed
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Avg Missed
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Errors
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Penalties[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Josh Hoffman
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]210[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13+43=56[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.73[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ben Barba[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]106[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10+12=24[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

It's telling they are both shit in the halves. Barba being able to release the ball from his hands more than Hoffman got people much more excited though.
 
How was Barba shit in the halves? Take off the blinkers.
 
I have no clue what the difference is between missing a tackle or an ineffective tackle is. You either tackle them and stop the forward momentum or you don't. What is apparent though is that Boyd is every bit as good defensively as Barba and that's at the heart of your claim Porthoz. Claiming that Barba is a better defender and by some margin is totally incorrect as you well know. Of the tackles that both attempt, Boyd missed 14 % and Barba missed 17 %...so at worst you could argue Boyd and Barba were similar.

However, comparing apples with apples....according to the NRL ,in the fullback role alone Boyd was clearly better with 11 missed tackles and 11 errors as contrasted with Barbas 16 missed tackles and 27 errors. That was with only 14 of Barbas games considered at fullback so as to truly compare games played.

Barba has strengths and weaknesses and I like him as a player, same as I like Boyd. Belittling Boyd to justify your dislike of WBs stated desire to bring him back to the Broncos is unworthy. He is obviously a good top quality player.


Result ? The statement that Barba is better defensively is absolutely false.
 
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