- Feb 28, 2016
- 11,489
- 8,361
I think the most impressive part of what I saw was mozers combination with te Kura. It's pretty deadly
PLAYER Billy Walters
- Thread starter McHunt
- Start date
They’ve done it a few times this year, Te Kura’s first try in round one came off a Mozer pass.
Souths first try yesterday Te Kura got a quick play the ball and Mozer went short and Souths scored.
Te Kura is a combination forward he worked really well with Karl last year on the right.
theshed
Just a Game
- Aug 28, 2010
- 15,584
- 36,310
Kev left Billy on way too long against the titans. Should be 20-25 mins max
- Oct 17, 2013
- 12,841
- 14,848
It actually is a coincidence, and when Walters comes on at the back end and we put on a bunch of points everyone is silent. I’m genuinely curious about what you guys think Paix does when he comes on that’s so different?
I swear if people followed Walters at the start point would happen.
- Oct 17, 2013
- 12,841
- 14,848
And I guarantee points would happen more after the initial wrestle if Paix and Walters swapped as starters. The forwards are getting over theirs in most games and the backs are working from that. It’s how rugby league is played. Games aren’t won in the first 20 minutes
- Jan 25, 2013
- 25,700
- 30,042
Same reason Hunt has been starting in Origin, with Grant coming on later. Hunt/Walters are the better defenders and do the ground work. Paix/Grant are more creative and elusive, and are able to better take advantage of the fatigue and shape that has been created.
One doesn't work as well without the other, it's like saying the backs and halves create and score most of the tries, so get rid of the forwards in the game because they don't score points.
One doesn't work as well without the other, it's like saying the backs and halves create and score most of the tries, so get rid of the forwards in the game because they don't score points.
Vs the dragons we blew them away late and Walters was the 9.
I don't see how PaiX is doing much different to Walters but I see Reynolds and Walsh figuring out a tired opposition and clicking into gear but that's not because of Paix
Footy Fanatic
NRL Player
- Dec 12, 2018
- 1,062
- 1,499
I feel like the difference is half the good stuff that happens around Walters seems pretty much be an accident. He always looks confused and that is never going to fill people with confidence about his ability.
Paix on the other hand looks more sure of himself and I think that has a flow on effect to the rest of the team and on our attack.
Paix on the other hand looks more sure of himself and I think that has a flow on effect to the rest of the team and on our attack.
tommy
International Rep
- Jun 5, 2015
- 13,164
- 13,943
As far as I can tell that has happened once, the dragons game. It would probably become a bigger talking point if it happened more. The team just looks a lot more coherent with paix on. As others have said, Walters can look like a bit of a headless chook out there. At least his defence is better this season though.
- Jul 28, 2016
- 24,370
- 35,773
The frustrating thing is that this is not being picked up by the 'expert pundits'.
They keep talking about bench hookers needing to aspire to become the starting 9... except in the current era there are very few 9's that can churn out 80mins week in week out without needing a break.
If you've got a hooker that can pump out a quality 55-65mins then you need to find them a break somewhere... so do you want that break to cost you 1 or 2 interchanges.
The more important stat is which 9 plays the most minutes out of a pair... because that is effectively the team's number 1 hooker.
In the current era the bench is vitally important due to how fast the game is and the reduction on interchanges.
Interchanges are like gold for modern rugby league and Todd Payten has been one of the big innovators in this respect. When he started Granville on the weekend at prop I straight away noticed that Cotter was on the bench... Cotter usually churns out 55-60mins a game, so to me I could see how he intended to start Granville for 15-20mins, sub on Cotter and then he stays on for the game (1 interchange saved).
Granville is then there as backup if Robson needs a break and can also slot in if a back goes down.. so Granville is now able to fulfil 3 roles in the 17 and also gives him flexibility on the bench in regards to carrying middle forwards. But the commentators are just like "Bwaaah what is Granville doing at prop... and for Cotter!!!"... they've also not picked up that Lolo is effectively playing prop he just doesnt want to wear the 10 jersey for some reason... so Granville was basically starting lock and fulfilling that role of mobile small forward with some ball playing.... so realistically the move wasn't some crazy scheme given Granville already does this when he wants him and Robson out there at the same time.
He also does it with his 2nd rowers. Last year he was starting Gilbert at 11 before subbing Luciano on to play out 60mins... Gilbert then moves to the middle rotation (1 interchange saved, whilst also getting some use out of his 17 jersey).
This year he's doing similar with Neame/Hess, before bringing on Luki/Dunn, etc. Panthers do similar except they rotate 3/4 second rowers across the two positions over the course of a game.
Payten is constantly looking for ways to save his interchanges up and fully utilise his 17 each week.
I dislike Payten, but his use of the bench is definitely something that should be admired... his use of Granville this weekend didnt workout entirely, but I think he left him on for a little too long to save Cotter's energy... he was still out there at the 25 minute mark.
The pundits seem to completely miss what he's trying to do though and in general put far too much importance on who is in the starting 13 each week instead of minute distribution across the 17 as a whole.
BroncosFever
State of Origin Rep
- Jun 6, 2014
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- Jul 28, 2016
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I think Kevvie has given his 9's a licence to run if they ever see a quick ptb and markers out of position.... which is a pretty stock standard approach for hookers.
However I think Billy sees the markers skittled and just starts running, but he doesnt really have a plan once he's picked up the ball... hence why he runs into dead ends, jinks around and dummies 5 times, before eventually dumping it off to someone flat footed.
For the most part we look to be pretty structured with what we do in attack... pass it to Reyno who has shape setup outside him and let Ezra and Walsh play eyes up footy. In yardage our forwards go one out, but have a support forward with them. It's one or the other.
So when Billy takes off his forward in yardage was just running through wanting the ball, but not getting it and then they dont know when they're going to get it, because he's unpredictable coming out of DH... the backline isnt really setup for a sweep when he skips out either because Reyno was expecting a yardage run... OR when Reyno wants it, he's got his decoy forwards set up so Billy runs out with no support around him and the backline's timing is off, Reece and Ezra are at 2nd receiver, etc.
If he just came out of dummy half knowing he's the only one going and running straight at the line for a break or quick ptb, it would look more fluid... but at the moment we arent really setup to recognise and react to a quick ptb scenario and everyone being on the same page.... rorters and storm are setup to play almost exclusively out of those scenarios, including runners specifically looking to manufacture quick ptb's.
However I think Billy sees the markers skittled and just starts running, but he doesnt really have a plan once he's picked up the ball... hence why he runs into dead ends, jinks around and dummies 5 times, before eventually dumping it off to someone flat footed.
For the most part we look to be pretty structured with what we do in attack... pass it to Reyno who has shape setup outside him and let Ezra and Walsh play eyes up footy. In yardage our forwards go one out, but have a support forward with them. It's one or the other.
So when Billy takes off his forward in yardage was just running through wanting the ball, but not getting it and then they dont know when they're going to get it, because he's unpredictable coming out of DH... the backline isnt really setup for a sweep when he skips out either because Reyno was expecting a yardage run... OR when Reyno wants it, he's got his decoy forwards set up so Billy runs out with no support around him and the backline's timing is off, Reece and Ezra are at 2nd receiver, etc.
If he just came out of dummy half knowing he's the only one going and running straight at the line for a break or quick ptb, it would look more fluid... but at the moment we arent really setup to recognise and react to a quick ptb scenario and everyone being on the same page.... rorters and storm are setup to play almost exclusively out of those scenarios, including runners specifically looking to manufacture quick ptb's.
- Jun 13, 2019
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The difference I notice between the two is getting more pronounced, Billy is looking for runs constantly, I wouldn't doubt for a second he does more dummy runs then any other hooker in the competition, when Paix comes on he is more pass orientated and his passing is improving, he can get some fast silky long passes out lately which get's us some good edge ball with our halves.
If Kev is giving billy license for the dummy runs I think the fault lies on Walsh to be there in support, if they can work this combination I think it could be a lethal one two punch because Billy's runs lately do seem to have a bit more punch he is getting plenty of half line break chances just with no one available for support in the same postcode.
It does look like he is just doing them and it wasn't to script though, which I think is something the coaches have to look at if this is the case, not because he shouldn't be doing them but because there needs to be organised support for when it happens, many tries can come from those plays.
If Kev is giving billy license for the dummy runs I think the fault lies on Walsh to be there in support, if they can work this combination I think it could be a lethal one two punch because Billy's runs lately do seem to have a bit more punch he is getting plenty of half line break chances just with no one available for support in the same postcode.
It does look like he is just doing them and it wasn't to script though, which I think is something the coaches have to look at if this is the case, not because he shouldn't be doing them but because there needs to be organised support for when it happens, many tries can come from those plays.
- Apr 26, 2008
- 34,578
- 35,550
Walters is the only 9 in the game to get his team top of the ladder. Next Cameron Smith IMO.
DH Runs/games/touches
Grant 49/7/831
Cook 46/7/871
Robson 46/7/702
Mahoney 38/7/686
Koroisau 35/6/602
Marshall-King 34/5/495
Walters 32/7/409
Paix 16/7/335
- Jun 13, 2019
- 10,276
- 14,791
Seems strange, that said it's only Api and Walters that don't average over 75 mins(basically the whole game), Api did miss a game though, but averages 68 mins to Billys 42.
Your stats are alot different to the ones Fox has though where is that from?
NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab
Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership
www.foxsports.com.au
From a mins played to runs taken ratio, Billy would easily be first in that metric that said, Paix certainly doesn't come close and it looks that way on the eye test atleast.
