NEWS Brisbane to Bennett: it's not you, it's us

McHunt

 

[Kooly87]

Gee, I really don't know about that. So, if I've read this correctly WB should answer questions about a club he's coached twice with 'no comment'. Wonder what people would say then. I'm sure it would be just a constant stream of praise for him doing the silent thing

You know, it's possible that many other people might not think he's done anything wrong. I'd say there's probably quite a few that aren't ageist pricks too. What exactly does his age have to do with his opinion?

If there is any Coach in the history of the game who is absolutely comfortable with giving a firm 'no comment' or giving the media the silent treatment, it is absolutely, wihtout a doubt, Wayne Bennett. There are literally dozens of very well known examples of him doing exactly that.

 

[Sproj]

It's all good. We are all passionate on here and I realise I hold unpopular views at times and yes, I could be better in the respect department. I kind of write as I speak, it's almost the same. The difference is the written word seldom reflects the nuance, the tone of the spoken word. Like the way I told Nashy 'hey ****' when he dissed Logan and my beloved Ipswich. He knew exactly how I would have sounded and reacted perfectly. Another person likely would have seen it very differently. So, if what I said to Organix had happened in the real world he'd very likely not been too offended.

I appreciate the honesty. The reality is, you post a LOT of good stuff, it is just these kinds of posts don't translate well. It happens to all of us at times, me very much too.

 

[Huge]

If there is any Coach in the history of the game who is absolutely comfortable with giving a firm 'no comment' or giving the media the silent treatment, it is absolutely, wihtout a doubt, Wayne Bennett. There are literally dozens of very well known examples of him doing exactly that.

Oh, I never said he wasn't comfortable doing so. How did you get that out of what I wrote?

 

[tommy]

Gee, I really don't know about that. So, if I've read this correctly WB should answer questions about a club he's coached twice with 'no comment'. Wonder what people would say then. I'm sure it would be just a constant stream of praise for him doing the silent thing

You know, it's possible that many other people might not think he's done anything wrong. I'd say there's probably quite a few that aren't ageist pricks too. What exactly does his age have to do with his opinion?

His age has something to do with it because he’s being extremely childish.

 

[Huge]

His age has something to do with it because he’s being extremely childish.

Soooo, there's an age limit for childishness? Interested to know as I can be childish and I'm nearly as old as WB. HATE to think I exceeded the age limit.

Sorry tommy but you're not being truthful here, especially with yourself. The real truth here is that you believe a persons dilapidated exterior means their opinion is similarly dilapidated and thus, should be treated with disdain. Only a young person is allowed to be silly or childish.

 

[Organix]

In the time after, however, St. George has suffered in a similar way to the Broncos following Wayne's departure. Tailing off and now look at the state of the club today


WOW

How can anyone respect your opinion when you somehow can blame St George's current situation on WB when he left 10 FUCKING YEARS AGO??????

Seriously. That's fucking bonkers. Too irrational for me. Well, at least on this topic. Ok. WBs toxic, a **** and wrecks everything he touches, what about that scout group he was in when he has 11, they're gone, if you look back far enough no place he's been near survived !!! Couple more years and there won't even be St George and Newcastle in the NRL, WB will have killed another two organisations.

St. George Illawarra:
2010 - Premiership and Bennett leaves, 2011 - 5th, 2012 - 9th, 2013 - 14th, 2014 - 11th, 2015 - 8th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 9th, 2018 - 7th, 2019 - 15th, 2020 - 12th.

Not exactly an incredible rise or maintaining of their glory after Bennett left. But I am more concerned with the few years following his departure. Definitely a relatively sharp decline.

While I don't agree with his tone I 100% agree with his argument. It's conspiracy theory madness that a coach leaves a place worse off intentionally as some sort of evil master plan.

Let's all thank Seibold for the place being better off than last year, he obviously setup the foundations for a claim up the ladder.

Oftan the simplest explanation is the correct one. Searching for all these crazy theories like him being a master manipulator who sets up clubs to fail the second he leaves is just crazy theories not based in reality.

The reality is, he is often replaced by worse coaches so the joints go down.

I know a business that made 20k a week, they leased it out for 8k a week, within 12 months the people leasing it had profits shrink to below 5k a week. Within 2 years they had to break lease or face bankruptcy. The original owners took the place back and within 12 months profits were over 20k a week again, after 2 years, they would regularly make 30k a week net profit.

Coaching is a tough gig, very few coaches make it past 5-10 years, statistically anyone who replaces Bennett (or Bellamy/Robinson when the time comes) will almost certainly fail. That's just probability.

Now I did not say that Bennett brought clubs low intentionally. I said that how he coaches CAN inevitably bring clubs low after he leaves because they do not have the sole leader, the single presence.

My comment about him being a manipulator was in relation to his ability to find excuses and pass the blame effectively.

I respect him as a coach. I think he is great. BUT I also think he should be regarded as a mortal man and not some infallible demigod that has nothing to do with how the Broncos ended up after he left.

My issue is actually with @Huge and others making out that WB is always right and wanting him back. That is not the answer for the Broncos. The answer is installing a stable and well-organised leadership structure at the club, because Bennett returning means a repetition of the past when he inevitably leaves.

When Wayne is asked a question about the broncos his response should be along the lines of- “none of my business, I don’t know what’s going on up there, my focus is on Souths” unless he wants to continue to look like a 70+ sook.

He can answer how he likes, but I don't think people should accept everything he says as gospel. He has his own agenda and that has shone through in the last little while. He seems very reluctant to take any blame at any time.

 

[tommy]

Soooo, there's an age limit for childishness? Interested to know as I can be childish and I'm nearly as old as WB. HATE to think I exceeded the age limit.

Sorry tommy but you're not being truthful here, especially with yourself. The real truth here is that you believe a persons dilapidated exterior means their opinion is similarly dilapidated and thus, should be treated with disdain. Only a young person is allowed to be silly or childish.

There is childishness in the sense you are talking about and I’m fine with that, I love laughing at silly things. Wayne’s childishness amounts to hanging his bottom lip and sulking because the doctor didn’t have any lollipops left for him.

I’m surprised you can speak with such confidence about what I must be thinking, considering I have never said anything of the sort. It might interest you to know I regularly converse with people over twice my age and value their opinions. Btw I’m a big fan of Tom green and Sasha baron Cohen, I hope they stay childish well into old age.

 

[broncsgoat]

Why do people give Bennett shit for the way teams perform after he leaves?

It's not like part of his job description has been to set the team up for the future... it's to try and win premierships (which hasn't been successful in a decade) and to win matches - which he has done an excellent job of for 40 years.

They don't say Wayne can you come and set us up, then **** off and let someone else run the team... it's nonsense.

 

[Kimlo]

Why do people give Bennett shit for the way teams perform after he leaves?

It's not like part of his job description has been to set the team up for the future... it's to try and win premierships (which hasn't been successful in a decade) and to win matches - which he has done an excellent job of for 40 years.

They don't say Wayne can you come and set us up, then **** off and let someone else run the team... it's nonsense.

Exactly this. It's up to clubs to build the foundations for long term success. A coach's job is to coach the team, not to oversee the entire football department's operations from head to toe. Sure they can help, but if you're relying on them to do it, you're setting yourself up for failure when they leave.

DD is playing the long game now, he's setting up structures around the coach that will allow any coach to come in and have a better chance of success. Good management. I would bet Melbourne don't fall too steeply when Bellamy leaves because they have excellent structures and systems. Good on them, that's what good management does.

 

[Kimlo]

St. George Illawarra:
2010 - Premiership and Bennett leaves, 2011 - 5th, 2012 - 9th, 2013 - 14th, 2014 - 11th, 2015 - 8th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 9th, 2018 - 7th, 2019 - 15th, 2020 - 12th.

Not exactly an incredible rise or maintaining of their glory after Bennett left. But I am more concerned with the few years following his departure. Definitely a relatively sharp decline.



Now I did not say that Bennett brought clubs low intentionally. I said that how he coaches CAN inevitably bring clubs low after he leaves because they do not have the sole leader, the single presence.

My comment about him being a manipulator was in relation to his ability to find excuses and pass the blame effectively.

I respect him as a coach. I think he is great. BUT I also think he should be regarded as a mortal man and not some infallible demigod that has nothing to do with how the Broncos ended up after he left.

My issue is actually with @Huge and others making out that WB is always right and wanting him back. That is not the answer for the Broncos. The answer is installing a stable and well-organised leadership structure at the club, because Bennett returning means a repetition of the past when he inevitably leaves.



He can answer how he likes, but I don't think people should accept everything he says as gospel. He has his own agenda and that has shone through in the last little while. He seems very reluctant to take any blame at any time.

Of course they declined, they went from a legendary coach to a shit coach. That's just common sense, not some devious planning.

I agree, but who isn't in the high paying job game? Name me one coach who got sacked and said oh yeah I was shit, it was my fault. They all blame 1000 things before themselves, until they get another job then they'll say they learned from their previous experience and are a better coach now.

Seibold blamed everyone right up to cyber trolls.
Jason Taylor blamed the players.
John Morris blames the board.
Griffin blamed Gould.

That's just a few I can remember.

FYI, I don't want Bennett at the club. I like DD and I trust his judgement to hire Ikin. The Bennett ship has sailed, I wish him well and will always like the guy for being a huge part in building up the club I love to be the powerhouse that it is today. He will always have my respect as a Broncos fan.

 

[Big Pete]

Why do people give Bennett shit for the way teams perform after he leaves?

It's not like part of his job description has been to set the team up for the future... it's to try and win premierships (which hasn't been successful in a decade) and to win matches - which he has done an excellent job of for 40 years.

They don't say Wayne can you come and set us up, then **** off and let someone else run the team... it's nonsense.

From their perspective Bennett runs these teams into the ground by signing these ridiculous contracts and then gets out of dodge before he has to handle the fallout.

It started in 2006 when he agreed to join the Sydney Roosters right as the Broncos were dealing with their slump. However just as the Broncos started playing well the media 'leaked' the story and left the Roosters in a lurch. Bennett got to enjoy premiership success and all the accolades but the Broncos were still in a vulnerable position. So when he quit in 2008 after all the dramas surrounding Petero and some of the 2006 premiership winning side it made sections of the media sceptical.

Then at the Dragons he wins them the premiership but he didn't make a lot of decisions that were in their best interests long term and he ends up poaching a lot of their players to go to Newcastle. Price inherited what was meant to be one of the best squads in the competition, but it was mostly made up of players on inflated contracts which had grown stale.

He arrives at Newcastle and after a slow start he puts the team in the too hard category and starts recruiting a bunch of former Dragons players and legends who are easy to coach. His idea of future proofing the club is signing discards like Dane Gagai and Joseph Leilua who have bad characteristics but it doesn't matter in the short term because he can do something with them. Everything goes wrong and for once Bennett has to accept responsibility for his actions but instead of honoring the final year of his contract, he sacks himself and gets another coach released so he can come into the Broncos right as they're coming good.

Then it's a similar deal at the Broncos where he enjoys some success and brings in some shady characters in the name of short term success. It's clear something is rotten at the club in 2018 but he makes it work just enough to qualify for the finals (only to get annihilated by the Dragons of all teams) and then the club completely bottoms out when he leaves.

That's just one perspective and it ignores a few factors. However there's always two sides to a story and that's the cons against Bennett.

 

[broncsgoat]

From their perspective Bennett runs these teams into the ground by signing these ridiculous contracts and then gets out of dodge before he has to handle the fallout.

It started in 2006 when he agreed to join the Sydney Roosters right as the Broncos were dealing with their slump. However just as the Broncos started playing well the media 'leaked' the story and left the Roosters in a lurch. Bennett got to enjoy premiership success and all the accolades but the Broncos were still in a vulnerable position. So when he quit in 2008 after all the dramas surrounding Petero and some of the 2006 premiership winning side it made sections of the media sceptical.

Then at the Dragons he wins them the premiership but he didn't make a lot of decisions that were in their best interests long term and he ends up poaching a lot of their players to go to Newcastle. Price inherited what was meant to be one of the best squads in the competition, but it was mostly made up of players on inflated contracts which had grown stale.

He arrives at Newcastle and after a slow start he puts the team in the too hard category and starts recruiting a bunch of former Dragons players and legends who are easy to coach. His idea of future proofing the club is signing discards like Dane Gagai and Joseph Leilua who have bad characteristics but it doesn't matter in the short term because he can do something with them. Everything goes wrong and for once Bennett has to accept responsibility for his actions but instead of honoring the final year of his contract, he sacks himself and gets another coach released so he can come into the Broncos right as they're coming good.

Then it's a similar deal at the Broncos where he enjoys some success and brings in some shady characters in the name of short term success. It's clear something is rotten at the club in 2018 but he makes it work just enough to qualify for the finals (only to get annihilated by the Dragons of all teams) and then the club completely bottoms out when he leaves.

That's just one perspective and it ignores a few factors. However there's always two sides to a story and that's the cons against Bennett.

I don't really like replying to your messages because I just feel like your recall is so amazing anything I say will get shat on lol.

But a lot of that is sort of backing up what I was trying to say, he's employed for short term success and winning ships, not to set the teams up for the future.

He got the job done at saints and got offered the money to go to Newcastle, Tinkler wanted to win at any cost so Bennett tried to do that in the most efficient way possible and got them to a prelim with if I remember correctly probably the worst team to ever play a prelim. He came back here and nearly got us there and despite us consistently being there or thereabouts got knifed while he wanted to stay here. He had a succession plan which was declined and we've since gone to kaka.

If souths go to shit, I think he'd be deserving of some ridicule because they have been planning for his departure. I expect they will decline due to a rookie coach and losing their captain and halfback, but I wouldn't think they'll miss the 8 or anything as drastic as we've seen previously when somebody else has taken over Waynes teams.

 

[Huge]

St. George Illawarra:
2010 - Premiership and Bennett leaves, 2011 - 5th, 2012 - 9th, 2013 - 14th, 2014 - 11th, 2015 - 8th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 9th, 2018 - 7th, 2019 - 15th, 2020 - 12th.

Not exactly an incredible rise or maintaining of their glory after Bennett left. But I am more concerned with the few years following his departure. Definitely a relatively sharp decline.



Now I did not say that Bennett brought clubs low intentionally. I said that how he coaches CAN inevitably bring clubs low after he leaves because they do not have the sole leader, the single presence.

My comment about him being a manipulator was in relation to his ability to find excuses and pass the blame effectively.

I respect him as a coach. I think he is great. BUT I also think he should be regarded as a mortal man and not some infallible demigod that has nothing to do with how the Broncos ended up after he left.

My issue is actually with @Huge and others making out that WB is always right and wanting him back. That is not the answer for the Broncos. The answer is installing a stable and well-organised leadership structure at the club, because Bennett returning means a repetition of the past when he inevitably leaves.



He can answer how he likes, but I don't think people should accept everything he says as gospel. He has his own agenda and that has shone through in the last little while. He seems very reluctant to take any blame at any time.

Really?
Your issue with us is we all worship WB, want him back, that we believe he's infallible, that we think he's a god of sorts?

How about considering this before firing off a response?
What if the real issue is YOUR PERCEPTION of what we write is compromised?
What if it's you who resents/strongly disagrees the posters who don't hear evil in every WB utterance?
What if it's you who is reading our responses and misunderstanding our intentions?
What if you just aren't listening and are the one deciding what we are really saying?

It's possible that everytime you read anything that doesn't directly align with your view of WB that you construe the response to mean slaverish love for and servitude to the great god Bennett. Literally no one on this forum has ever said WB is perfect but just because we don't immediately accept someone's spite filled smear doesn't mean we adore him.

 

[lynx000]

St. George Illawarra:
2010 - Premiership and Bennett leaves, 2011 - 5th, 2012 - 9th, 2013 - 14th, 2014 - 11th, 2015 - 8th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 9th, 2018 - 7th, 2019 - 15th, 2020 - 12th.

Not exactly an incredible rise or maintaining of their glory after Bennett left. But I am more concerned with the few years following his departure. Definitely a relatively sharp decline.



Now I did not say that Bennett brought clubs low intentionally. I said that how he coaches CAN inevitably bring clubs low after he leaves because they do not have the sole leader, the single presence.

My comment about him being a manipulator was in relation to his ability to find excuses and pass the blame effectively.

I respect him as a coach. I think he is great. BUT I also think he should be regarded as a mortal man and not some infallible demigod that has nothing to do with how the Broncos ended up after he left.

My issue is actually with @Huge and others making out that WB is always right and wanting him back. That is not the answer for the Broncos. The answer is installing a stable and well-organised leadership structure at the club, because Bennett returning means a repetition of the past when he inevitably leaves.



He can answer how he likes, but I don't think people should accept everything he says as gospel. He has his own agenda and that has shone through in the last little while. He seems very reluctant to take any blame at any time.

As is not unusual in life, the failure of clubs after WB leaves is multi-factorial.

In my view WB can only bear the blame to the following extent:

1. If he takes players with him - as happened at St George (or in the case of Brisbane 2008, recommending that players look elsewhere); and
2. Not having developed a replacement that could step into his shoes. The history of his replacements aren't great - Henjak, Rick Price, Rick Stone. But even here the blame primarily falls on the clubs.

Good clubs have succession plans in place to replace champion players with either a purchased player or someone coming through the system ready to step up. They should also have something similar in place for the coaching staff. At least one member of the assistant coaches should be viewed as being capable (if not intended) of stepping up to the top job. So in my view the primary responsible party for where those clubs have wound up is the club management.

On the last occasion he was here, WB actually went to the Board with a properly thought out succession plan involving ultimately handing over to JD. Souths have effectively bought that by appointing WB. It will be interesting to see if it works out for them. Hindsight tells us that we probably should have run with his plan.

 

[Huge]

From their perspective Bennett runs these teams into the ground by signing these ridiculous contracts and then gets out of dodge before he has to handle the fallout.

It started in 2006 when he agreed to join the Sydney Roosters right as the Broncos were dealing with their slump. However just as the Broncos started playing well the media 'leaked' the story and left the Roosters in a lurch. Bennett got to enjoy premiership success and all the accolades but the Broncos were still in a vulnerable position. So when he quit in 2008 after all the dramas surrounding Petero and some of the 2006 premiership winning side it made sections of the media sceptical.

Then at the Dragons he wins them the premiership but he didn't make a lot of decisions that were in their best interests long term and he ends up poaching a lot of their players to go to Newcastle. Price inherited what was meant to be one of the best squads in the competition, but it was mostly made up of players on inflated contracts which had grown stale.

He arrives at Newcastle and after a slow start he puts the team in the too hard category and starts recruiting a bunch of former Dragons players and legends who are easy to coach. His idea of future proofing the club is signing discards like Dane Gagai and Joseph Leilua who have bad characteristics but it doesn't matter in the short term because he can do something with them. Everything goes wrong and for once Bennett has to accept responsibility for his actions but instead of honoring the final year of his contract, he sacks himself and gets another coach released so he can come into the Broncos right as they're coming good.

Then it's a similar deal at the Broncos where he enjoys some success and brings in some shady characters in the name of short term success. It's clear something is rotten at the club in 2018 but he makes it work just enough to qualify for the finals (only to get annihilated by the Dragons of all teams) and then the club completely bottoms out when he leaves.

That's just one perspective and it ignores a few factors. However there's always two sides to a story and that's the cons against Bennett.

I have no such fears concerning your recall. After all, you're the expert who tells qll and sundry that Kennedy earns 100k a year.

You're simply a spin doctor when describing WB at various clubs. You start off your skewed revisionist history with 2006. Apparently there was a slump and you poison the well with 'right as the Broncos were dealing with their slump' WB left. Inference? WB was abandoning us right when we needed him the most.

Ffs. Talk about bullshit! Nothing of the sort happened. There was no slump. We actually finished the season third and then went on to win the grand final! What slump?

Apparently WB had agreed in principle to coach the Roosters in 2007 but decided to stay where he was after Politis couldn't keep his mouth shut.

 

[1910]

I have no such fears concerning your recall. After all, you're the expert who tells qll and sundry that Kennedy earns 100k a year.

You're simply a spin doctor when describing WB at various clubs. You start off your skewed revisionist history with 2006. Apparently there was a slump and you poison the well with 'right as the Broncos were dealing with their slump' WB left. Inference? WB was abandoning us right when we needed him the most.

Ffs. Talk about bullshit! Nothing of the sort happened. There was no slump. We actually finished the season third and then went on to win the grand final! What slump?

Apparently WB had agreed in principle to coach the Roosters in 2007 but decided to stay where he was after Politis couldn't keep his mouth shut.

Two wins from nine games felt like a slump.

 

[Organix]

Really?
Your issue with us is we all worship WB, want him back, that we believe he's infallible, that we think he's a god of sorts?

How about considering this before firing off a response?
What if the real issue is YOUR PERCEPTION of what we write is compromised?
What if it's you who resents/strongly disagrees the posters who don't hear evil in every WB utterance?
What if it's you who is reading our responses and misunderstanding our intentions?
What if you just aren't listening and are the one deciding what we are really saying?

It's possible that everytime you read anything that doesn't directly align with your view of WB that you construe the response to mean slaverish love for and servitude to the great god Bennett. Literally no one on this forum has ever said WB is perfect but just because we don't immediately accept someone's spite filled smear doesn't mean we adore him.

Hey man, I'm just writing what I observe. Providing my opinion. Maybe you're right, but I am not going to get into a typical old quote battle. Let's just leave it at this: Wayne to me is Napoleon. Historically still favoured and respected, but at the time unwanted by the club that is the Allies of his time.

I'm just here trying to provide an alternative narrative.

With regards to Wayne's succession plan: It is just that - WAYNE'S succession plan.

My point stands that Wayne seems to want to get his way and when he doesn't he makes certain public statements that drive the narrative in a certain direction. Which is where we started this whole discussion.

I am personally not going to simply accept that.

 

[broncsgoat]

Hey man, I'm just writing what I observe. Providing my opinion. Maybe you're right, but I am not going to get into a typical old quote battle. Let's just leave it at this: Wayne to me is Napoleon. Historically still favoured and respected, but at the time unwanted by the club that is the Allies of his time.

I'm just here trying to provide an alternative narrative.

With regards to Wayne's succession plan: It is just that - WAYNE'S succession plan.

My point stands that Wayne seems to want to get his way and when he doesn't he makes certain public statements that drive the narrative in a certain direction. Which is where we started this whole discussion.

I am personally not going to simply accept that.

Way to tall to be Napoleon. Would never be able to pull that off