Broncos Player Movement and Rumours 2020

[Unbreakable]

Bad comparison. The T800 ended up defeating the T1000.

With the help of Sarah & John Connor! If Webcke has a couple of people helping him I'm sure he could tackle Haas-1000.

 

[Wolfie]

So Haas is the 2nd best forward you've ever seen at the Broncos, but he's "Not even close to Webcke"?

Do you see the problem? I know it's hard to admit, a lot of us admired Webcke growing up, including myself. But this is a battle I don't think the war horse can win. It's like comparing the T-800 to the T-1000 after watching Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Yeah, sure, the T-800 shows a lot of heart and determination, but the T-1000 is simply a superior model.

Again, you havent read it properly ( which you still didnt have the decency to admit to the first time after you got it wrong ), I said potentially the second best forward. In terms of ability and potential, Dave Taylor hands down is by far the best forward i have seen at Brisbane ( or anywhere for that matter). He had the size and speed Haas does, but he had a skill set Payne just doesnt possess. Haas is a massive human who is an exceptional athlete and he has a fantastic work ethic. Dave is a massive human who has a skill set no other forward possesses imo, but he isnt an athlete and has no work ethic and thats why his career has ended up like it did. I dont see Payne going that way.

What you are also ignoring is i have said Payne should surpass Webcke, i'm just saying he hasnt yet. Webcke is proven, Haas is one year into hopefully a long career.

Your terminator 2 comparison is a pretty bad one. The T-800 got the better of the T-1000 in the end.

 

[Battler]

I’ve never seen a prop be able to play 80 quality minutes and still burst games open like Haas did against the Panthers. Fat Fifita (Sharks) can open games up like that, but he can’t play over 60 minutes week in week out. Didn’t he also make 50+ tackles last night? The kid is everywhere on the field. An absolute freak the likes of which we’d never seen before... until d. Fifita.

 

[Unbreakable]

Again, you havent read it properly ( which you still didnt have the decency to admit to the first time after you got it wrong ), I said potentially the second best forward. In terms of ability and potential, Dave Taylor hands down is by far the best forward i have seen at Brisbane ( or anywhere for that matter). He had the size and speed Haas does, but he had a skill set Payne just doesnt possess. Haas is a massive human who is an exceptional athlete and he has a fantastic work ethic. Dave is a massive human who has a skill set no other forward possesses imo, but he isnt an athlete and has no work ethic and thats why his career has ended up like it did. I dont see Payne going that way.

What you are also ignoring is i have said Payne should surpass Webcke, i'm just saying he hasnt yet. Webcke is proven, Haas is one year into hopefully a long career.

Your terminator 2 comparison is a pretty bad one. The T-800 got the better of the T-1000 in the end.

So he's the 2nd best Bronco forward ever, massive human, exceptional athlete, fantastic work ethic.. But isn't even close to Webcke?

Wowza, I might have to go back and watch some more early 00's film, this Webcke bloke must have been running for 300m every game and single handedly tearing the hearts out of oppositions.

 

[broncos4life]

That is simply incorrect. I don't need statistics to tell me that Haas has had more influence on results this year than Webcke ever did.

To say that Haas never "takes the tough runs" is pure crap as well.

Bow to your new king.

“Bow to your new king” lol. Man I gotta say, I’m loving your posts lately.

 

[Wolfie]

So he's the 2nd best Bronco forward ever, massive human, exceptional athlete, fantastic work ethic.. But isn't even close to Webcke?

Wowza, I might have to go back and watch some more early 00's film, this Webcke bloke must have been running for 300m every game and single handedly tearing the hearts out of oppositions.

I'm sure your not this dumb. Go and look up the word POTENTIALLY. If i was naming the best ever Broncos forwards based on what they fulfilled, i'd be naming Lazarus, Civoneciva, Tallis, Webcke, Thorn and Parker, probably more who i have forgotten as better than Haas or any other young forward we have with potential. You are making it out like i'm saying Haas is shit ( which i'm not ). Haas needs to prove himself over time to get into the kind of company i just mentioned. Players who have all done it for more than a year in first grade. Players who have done it at every single level they played at. Haas hasnt yet. He should, but he hasnt yet.

You havent got the balls to admit you got my orginal statement wrong and you lied about what i said. Not even going to bother reading your shit. I'd use the ignore button if i could.

 

[Unbreakable]

I'm sure your not this dumb. Go and look up the word POTENTIALLY. If i was naming the best ever Broncos forwards based on what they fulfilled, i'd be naming Lazarus, Civoneciva, Tallis, Webcke, Thorn and Parker, probably more who i have forgotten as better than Haas or any other young forward we have with potential. You are making it out like i'm saying Haas is shit ( which i'm not ). Haas needs to prove himself over time to get into the kind of company i just mentioned. Players who have all done it for more than a year in first grade. Players who have done it at every single level they played at. Haas hasnt yet. He should, but he hasnt yet.

You havent got the balls to admit you got my orginal statement wrong and you lied about what i said. Not even going to bother reading your shit. I'd use the ignore button if i could.

Hey now cupcake, I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch, I'm sorry for paraphrasing.

You insinuated that the reason Haas' metres are so much greater than Webcke's are because Haas doesn't take any (or.. many?) tough runs, or something along those lines. I simply disagree with that sentiment, if you want to know why it looks that way to the untrained eye, it's because regardless of the situation you put Haas in, if he hits the ball up, he is going to make 10+ metres nearly every time, it literally doesn't matter whether he's 5 metres out from his own line or not.

That's the difference in fitness, strength, leg drive, etc. Nothing to do with Webcke taking more "tough runs" or being a "toiler", it's simply that Haas is so big and monumentally strong that he makes the hard yards seem easy, which is an honest mistake to make.

Your problem is that you're trying to compare a mortal to a cybernetic organism who was engineered to run the football.

(And for reference, I totally agree with you that if you're factoring in the overall body of work all of those guys you listed are ahead of him, the thing you said that I was disagreeing with was "Haas isn't even close to Webcke in terms of being an NRL prop", that's just poor judgement on your behalf.)

 

[Wolfie]

I’ve never seen a prop be able to play 80 quality minutes and still burst games open like Haas did against the Panthers. Fat Fifita (Sharks) can open games up like that, but he can’t play over 60 minutes week in week out. Didn’t he also make 50+ tackles last night? The kid is everywhere on the field. An absolute freak the likes of which we’d never seen before... until d. Fifita.

It would be interesting to see the kind of meters props of say the late 90's early 00's were making compared to the props of the last 3 or 4 years. Aaron Woods best season for running meters would be better than Webckes best, does that make him better than Webcke? The way i see it, look at those two runs in the 2006 grand final Webcke did in the set we scored the field goal from ( and there are many more ). Thats the kind of things a champion does. You dont have to make huge meters to be in that class. Its something stats dont measure.

 

[Huge]

That is simply incorrect. I don't need statistics to tell me that Haas has had more influence on results this year than Webcke ever did.

To say that Haas never "takes the tough runs" is pure crap as well.

Bow to your new king.

When did someone say 'Haas never takes the tough runs' ?

 

[ostin86]

It would be interesting to see the kind of meters props of say the late 90's early 00's were making compared to the props of the last 3 or 4 years. Aaron Woods best season for running meters would be better than Webckes best, does that make him better than Webcke? The way i see it, look at those two runs in the 2006 grand final Webcke did in the set we scored the field goal from ( and there are many more ). Thats the kind of things a champion does. You dont have to make huge meters to be in that class. Its something stats dont measure.

I get the feeling that as the technology for measuring stats has advanced over the years so has the average meterage. I have no evidence of this, it's just something I've been wondering lately.

 

[Foordy]

I get the feeling that as the technology for measuring stats has advanced over the years so has the average meterage. I have no evidence of this, it's just something I've been wondering lately.

i'm not sure, that's why thing vary widely depending on the stats site you refer to.

 

[Wolfie]

Hey now cupcake, I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch, I'm sorry for paraphrasing.

You insinuated that the reason Haas' metres are so much greater than Webcke's are because Haas doesn't take any (or.. many?) tough runs, or something along those lines. I simply disagree with that sentiment, if you want to know why it looks that way to the untrained eye, it's because regardless of the situation you put Haas in, if he hits the ball up, he is going to make 10+ metres nearly every time, it literally doesn't matter whether he's 5 metres out from his own line or not.

That's the difference in fitness, strength, leg drive, etc. Nothing to do with Webcke taking more "tough runs" or being a "toiler", it's simply that Haas is so big and monumentally strong that he makes the hard yards seem easy, which is an honest mistake to make.

Your problem is that you're trying to compare a mortal to a cybernetic organism who was engineered to run the football.

(And for reference, I totally agree with you that if you're factoring in the overall body of work all of those guys you listed are ahead of him, the thing you said that I was disagreeing with was "Haas isn't even close to Webcke in terms of being an NRL prop", that's just poor judgement on your behalf.)

I said i wouldnt reply, but i will, so my bad. I didnt insinuate anything. I asked a question, nothing more. I dont see in certain situations that you can rely on statistics because of the variable. You cant compare like for like runs. You just cant, so its a bit irrelevant i guess. I havent made any mistake either, and i never said Haas isnt close to Webcke as an NRL prop. I have made it pretty clear Webcke is better simply because over a career he has proved he is better. I've also made it clear if Haas keeps developing he will become our best ever prop, but at the moment, he cant be put into that category after 12 months.
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I get the feeling that as the technology for measuring stats has advanced over the years so has the average meterage. I have no evidence of this, it's just something I've been wondering lately.

I wonder if they have always used the same guidelines to measure player statistics or if they were different 10 years ago. I'm not fan of stats as i feel they can be so skewed and misleading. As i mentioned before, Sua was going to get Glenn out of the team because his stats were better. Sadly for him, where it mattered, in the things you cant measure, Glenn was miles in front.

 

[Unbreakable]

I havent made any mistake either, and i never said Haas isnt close to Webcke as an NRL prop.

Haas outruns Webcke in terms of running meters, but he is nowhere near close to him as a prop yet.

Well, well, well..

 

[ostin86]

Wouldn't have a clue tbh

 

[Wolfie]

Well, well, well..

I didnt say it. I never said NRL anywhere I said he isnt close yet.

 

[Big Pete]

Here's Webcke's view on stats, from one of the great Rugby League books 'Warhorse'.

Statistics do not always tell the full story. If you looked at my record over the years and the stats for 'metres gained' - a statistic that I think is bullshit, incidentally - I would be lower than most blokes. When it has come to tackles, I've got my share on the board, but if you did a stat for my 'one-on-one tackles' there'd be bugger-all, because the fact is that most blokes don't run at bigger blokes. So the majority of my tackles would always be 'assist' tackles - effectively doing what I have to do.

As for that 'metres gained' measuring stick, well as I built some notoriety in the game I became more heavily marked, and most times I'd take the first hit-up and get absolutely smashed. Yet I could come out of a game having run only 90-100 metres and I still have people saying I'd had a 'dominant' game.

Stats are good in some ways - but they need to be viewed with a certain perspective. There have been players who have consistently averaged more metres than me and haven't had the same wraps and rewards that I've had over the years. If that is unfair, it is just the context of the game. The fact is that statistics never tell the full story of a football match. In some of the better games I have played I haven't gained a lot of ground, but I have done good things in tough situations, maybe a hit-up through heavy traffic for 4 or 5 metres and a quick play the ball - setting the next bloke up for 15 metres and building the momentum. When you learn what rugby league is all about you come to understand the important things aren't always the classic things.

124-125.

I remember reading that 13 years ago and it's stayed with me ever since.

 

[Unbreakable]

Here's Webcke's view on stats, from one of the great Rugby League books 'Warhorse'.



124-125.

I remember reading that 13 years ago and it's stayed with me ever since.

I respect that point of view, and he's absolutely right in some ways. Lodge deserves a good amount of respect and credit for the season Haas has had, he's a more comparable player to Webcke in this situation, usually taking the first run of the set and getting drilled, setting it up for Payne (Petero)

 

[Wolfie]

Here's Webcke's view on stats, from one of the great Rugby League books 'Warhorse'.



124-125.

I remember reading that 13 years ago and it's stayed with me ever since.

Totally agree with Webby. I think we have become too statistic orientated. We need to get back to just playing footy.

A recent game that sticks out in my mind was when we beat the cows at suncorp in 2018. TPJ was absolutley dominant, yet he only ran for 80 meters or so iirc.