Broncos Roster, Signings and Rumours Discussion 2023

[Wolfie]

I don’t think I agree that no one saw this in him. I always knew he had a lot of potential but he was pretty down on form the last few seasons and missed almost an entire season last year. He has now met or exceeded expectations for half a season and that entitles him to a pay rise? I would’ve liked to have seen him actually do it for a whole season first.
Then I’d be happy to give him 700k and an extension. I have no issue with giving him the raise and I agree it is the smart thing to do but I don’t particularly like the principal of it all. So maybe he’s 100k undervalued next year but he was overpaid by about 400k last season - not his fault of course but where is the concept of paying back the club?

Pay the man, it is the smart decision but as I said it just doesn’t sit right in principle.




It isn’t like the Haas situation in the sense that Patty’s camp had the decency to wait until the off season and are yet to demand a release but Haas’ “huge” pay bump was about $150k per year. So $50k more than Patty’s “reasonable increase” of 100k. Patty is actually asking for an almost 25% pay rise to Haas’ 15% request.

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!

Mehhh........

I'd prefer if Carrigan left. I can't see any upside whatsoever to keep persisting with him. One way or another......in seasons to come, it will end in tears.

Put it this way, you lose of a heck of a lot more of you replace a Staggs with an Arthars / Kennar than you do if you replace a Carrigan with a Jensen / James.

Carrigan has shown on the field he's a bog-average first grader at best.

Flegler is on another level as a player to Carrigan . So is his contract . Makes sense ?

He’s a good player, but in the Tolman mould. One dimensional stat bot.

At the start of 2022 not one person on here would have said he would be the best forward Queensland have, he would get player of the series and he would be playing for Australia. I was arguing with people last year when he signed his contract that he was worth the $450k a year, most thought it was too much. I think $450k was top of what he was worth then, and i think $550k is what i'd be paying him now.

Haas was on $750k a year when he had his hissy fit and wanted a million and then the extension to go up to $1.2 million in 2025. Thats a massive increase. I can pretty much guarantee Carrigan wont carry on like Haas either. I dont get why people have an issue with any player who improves their game so much getting a pretty modest pay bump after the kind of improvement Carrigan has shown and its still pretty common practice to try to tie down a player after such an improvement.

This paying the club back because you are injured is just nonsense. I get the sentiment, but Like i said, if you go that way, then you cant say he isnt worth more money when he playing like a forward on double the money and shouldnt get an increase.

The club are probably in a no win position. They dont give him an upgrade, he gets alienated. If he gets the upgrade but no extension, the fans will get the shits, but if he gets a year or 2 upgrade on what he is on now and he breaks down with injury, you get the Boyd situation again where the club gets crucified for dishing out a long, expensive contract. I still think the best option is give him the $100k and review it again at the end of 2023.

 

[Kaz]

If it isn't in their contract that they get an upgrade for playing for your state or country, tough luck.

Maybe we should start putting in contracts if you get suspended for a certain number of weeks, your contract is less. Same with injuries.

 

[Wolfie]

I have no problem with Patty asking for a payrise for 1 reason - it is the common thing these days, so I don't blame him.
But, I am against it totally as a concept and would like to see it banned by the NRL.
Here's a concept I can support.....you signed a contract, you honour that contract.
If you improve during that contract and believe you are worth, you negotiate a higher salary at your NEXT contract.
And if you really think you deserve it now, you negotiate that next contract early, voiding the current contract and signing a new one which gives you the extra $$$ you want but gives the club some extra years. No problem with that as it's a win-win.
But in no way should you be able to keep your existing contract and just increase your salary.

In an ideal world i think this is spot on. At the same time the clubs do have to have a bit of give and take with contracts. When we have given out big contracts to players who have literally not even had 1 good year in first grade its hard to argue that a player who has shown a huge improvement doesnt deserve a pay hike.

Its more the managers i get the shits with doing it in public. I get why they do it, but its better to have the negotiations taking place behind closed doors. As a club though, with how we have dealt with the departures of the likes of TPJ and Lodge i dont think they can claim the high ground either.

 

[theshed]

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!







At the start of 2022 not one person on here would have said he would be the best forward Queensland have, he would get player of the series and he would be playing for Australia. I was arguing with people last year when he signed his contract that he was worth the $450k a year, most thought it was too much. I think $450k was top of what he was worth then, and i think $550k is what i'd be paying him now.

Haas was on $750k a year when he had his hissy fit and wanted a million and then the extension to go up to $1.2 million in 2025. Thats a massive increase. I can pretty much guarantee Carrigan wont carry on like Haas either. I dont get why people have an issue with any player who improves their game so much getting a pretty modest pay bump after the kind of improvement Carrigan has shown and its still pretty common practice to try to tie down a player after such an improvement.

This paying the club back because you are injured is just nonsense. I get the sentiment, but Like i said, if you go that way, then you cant say he isnt worth more money when he playing like a forward on double the money and shouldnt get an increase.

The club are probably in a no win position. They dont give him an upgrade, he gets alienated. If he gets the upgrade but no extension, the fans will get the shits, but if he gets a year or 2 upgrade on what he is on now and he breaks down with injury, you get the Boyd situation again where the club gets crucified for dishing out a long, expensive contract. I still think the best option is give him the $100k and review it again at the end of 2023.

Yeah but I meant actual people who know about players - the majority of BHQ have proven to have no compass regarding player talent and potential.

Your argument against the injury point confused me because you say you can’t have it one way without the other but that’s exactly my point. He didn’t lose money when he was out of form or injured so he shouldn’t get money because he had 14 good games. It goes both ways.

He definitely is on track to deserving a big pay day but it just annoys me that there is 0 patience anymore. It’s all entitlement. Good for the players I guess but imagine anyone doing what Patty or Haas has just done back in the broncos golden era. They would’ve been held back after training for a private session with Webke and Tallis.

 

[McHunt]

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!

You deserve major kudos for earmarking Patty well before the bandwagon. I was definitely one of the skeptics. I appreciated his early maturity and obvious leadership potential but I was dubious about his ball handling, and certainly didn't forsee what materialized this year.

Good for you. An amazing call.

As for the pay rise, that's a tough one. No question he's worth more than he's on. He's not only our best forward, and has been all season, but also our best player. But rewind a year or two and that was Payne. Not that I think they're remotely cut from the same cloth.

This is why I've never celebrated snaring a player for less than his market value. It comes back to bite you on the arse sooner or later. Patty was signed for less than his market value, and that's gone up massively.

The problem is - unlike the real world - this artificial salary cap restricted workplace confounds the usual process of a pay review, or performance bonuses. If it were the real world, they all should on less money as a base, and be subject to performance bonuses at the end of the season. So the likes of Oates, Mam, Carrigan, and Martin might expect an extra packet under the Christmas tree. The likes of Staggs, Riki, Reynolds, Flegler, Capewell, Farnworth and Haas probably not. All for different reasons, but also for all kinds of reasons that wouldn't work.

The club is in a sticky situation. If they have room in the cap they should give Patty a pay rise. He's worth more than Flegler and Haas. But on the other hand, they have no obligation to, and I would say it sets a bad precedent. But we already know it's not a precedent: this is the slope Payne has been on for years and we all know how it worked out.

 

[Wolfie]

Yeah but I meant actual people who know about players - the majority of BHQ have proven to have no compass regarding player talent and potential.

Your argument against the injury point confused me because you say you can’t have it one way without the other but that’s exactly my point. He didn’t lose money when he was out of form or injured so he shouldn’t get money because he had 14 good games. It goes both ways.

He definitely is on track to deserving a big pay day but it just annoys me that there is 0 patience anymore. It’s all entitlement. Good for the players I guess but imagine anyone doing what Patty or Haas has just done back in the broncos golden era. They would’ve been held back after training for a private session with Webke and Tallis.

Pay increases happened in our golden era as well tbf. In fact, especially in our golden era, the club looked after our players much better than they get looked after now. It was that long ago now though nobody remembers.

I was more making the point about saying players should lose or gain money because i dont think its a good argument. I dont get why people bring it up.

I still dont have any issue with any player asking for a pay rise, people do it all the time in other industries. What i dont expect though is for them to throw a wobbly like Payne did if the club says no to it. You just suck it up and get on with it. I'd have the same opinion about Carrigan if he asked for a release as well.

 

[Scorchie]

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!







At the start of 2022 not one person on here would have said he would be the best forward Queensland have, he would get player of the series and he would be playing for Australia. I was arguing with people last year when he signed his contract that he was worth the $450k a year, most thought it was too much. I think $450k was top of what he was worth then, and i think $550k is what i'd be paying him now.

Haas was on $750k a year when he had his hissy fit and wanted a million and then the extension to go up to $1.2 million in 2025. Thats a massive increase. I can pretty much guarantee Carrigan wont carry on like Haas either. I dont get why people have an issue with any player who improves their game so much getting a pretty modest pay bump after the kind of improvement Carrigan has shown and its still pretty common practice to try to tie down a player after such an improvement.

This paying the club back because you are injured is just nonsense. I get the sentiment, but Like i said, if you go that way, then you cant say he isnt worth more money when he playing like a forward on double the money and shouldnt get an increase.

The club are probably in a no win position. They dont give him an upgrade, he gets alienated. If he gets the upgrade but no extension, the fans will get the shits, but if he gets a year or 2 upgrade on what he is on now and he breaks down with injury, you get the Boyd situation again where the club gets crucified for dishing out a long, expensive contract. I still think the best option is give him the $100k and review it again at the end of 2023.

Wolfie never forgets!

 

[Wolfie]

Wolfie never forgets!

I've got a list of people who have wronged him!

 

[Mr Fourex]

Yeah but I meant actual people who know about players - the majority of BHQ have proven to have no compass regarding player talent and potential.

except you...of course.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!







At the start of 2022 not one person on here would have said he would be the best forward Queensland have, he would get player of the series and he would be playing for Australia. I was arguing with people last year when he signed his contract that he was worth the $450k a year, most thought it was too much. I think $450k was top of what he was worth then, and i think $550k is what i'd be paying him now.

Haas was on $750k a year when he had his hissy fit and wanted a million and then the extension to go up to $1.2 million in 2025. Thats a massive increase. I can pretty much guarantee Carrigan wont carry on like Haas either. I dont get why people have an issue with any player who improves their game so much getting a pretty modest pay bump after the kind of improvement Carrigan has shown and its still pretty common practice to try to tie down a player after such an improvement.

This paying the club back because you are injured is just nonsense. I get the sentiment, but Like i said, if you go that way, then you cant say he isnt worth more money when he playing like a forward on double the money and shouldnt get an increase.

The club are probably in a no win position. They dont give him an upgrade, he gets alienated. If he gets the upgrade but no extension, the fans will get the shits, but if he gets a year or 2 upgrade on what he is on now and he breaks down with injury, you get the Boyd situation again where the club gets crucified for dishing out a long, expensive contract. I still think the best option is give him the $100k and review it again at the end of 2023.

**** that Fourex guy....**** hasn;t got a clue.

 

[BroncsFan]

In an ideal world i think this is spot on. At the same time the clubs do have to have a bit of give and take with contracts. When we have given out big contracts to players who have literally not even had 1 good year in first grade its hard to argue that a player who has shown a huge improvement doesnt deserve a pay hike.

Its more the managers i get the shits with doing it in public. I get why they do it, but its better to have the negotiations taking place behind closed doors. As a club though, with how we have dealt with the departures of the likes of TPJ and Lodge i dont think they can claim the high ground either.

I think in this instance it's the manager going public that has caused drama here.

These things usually pop up in the media when contract negotiations are happening, because the manager is trying to generate hype for their player.

I daresay Ikin would've been looking to discuss an extension with Patty after the year he had anyway, so it's likely they were already discussing things and I'd say an upgrade on his existing deal would've been part of the discussions to get the extension over the line (same as Cobbo).... but now his manager has decided to come out and start talking.

Broncos want Pat, they have him earmarked as a future captain, he's now a Qld and Aus rep (good chance it stays that way for the next 5-10yrs as well... in Qld at least)... and by all reports Pat wants to stay at the broncos.

There was no real need for his manager to come out and antagonise the situation, because I'd imagine shit is getting done. I doubt this is something Pat wants out in the public as well... he wants to stay so he probably just wants his manager to get the shit done without needing to put things out in the media to help him.

 

[Wolfie]

I think in this instance it's the manager going public that has caused drama here.

These things usually pop up in the media when contract negotiations are happening, because the manager is trying to generate hype for their player.

I daresay Ikin would've been looking to discuss an extension with Patty after the year he had anyway, so it's likely they were already discussing things and I'd say an upgrade on his existing deal would've been part of the discussions to get the extension over the line (same as Cobbo).... but now his manager has decided to come out and start talking.

Broncos want Pat, they have him earmarked as a future captain, he's now a Qld and Aus rep (good chance it stays that way for the next 5-10yrs as well... in Qld at least)... and by all reports Pat wants to stay at the broncos.

There was no real need for his manager to come out and antagonise the situation, because I'd imagine shit is getting done. I doubt this is something Pat wants out in the public as well... he wants to stay so he probably just wants his manager to get the shit done without needing to put things out in the media to help him.

I'm not sure you can excuse the player, he should be talking with his manager about whats going on. Managers are going to do this because its good negotiating tactics. I dont think its that big a deal really, they arent threatening the club for a release, its a pretty tame statement from him, just planting the seed really.

 

[BroncsFan]

I'm not sure you can excuse the player, he should be talking with his manager about whats going on. Managers are going to do this because its good negotiating tactics. I dont think its that big a deal really, they arent threatening the club for a release, its a pretty tame statement from him, just planting the seed really.

There's no doubt that Patty is being kept up to date about how the negotiations are going, but I'd imagine the manager has a lot of influence on what direction it goes.

Going to the media is the default approach by managers in NRL. Either managers are so shit at their job that they only have one tactic or club's recruitment is so weak that they always fold to the same tactic... but it works so whichever one it is means that it's here to stay until something changes.

 

[Jedhead]

Seriously, go back and have a look at a lot of the posts about him then tell me people on here saw this improvement in him. I'll give you some examples and i could easily put up a ton more, but this already too long post will be pages long!







At the start of 2022 not one person on here would have said he would be the best forward Queensland have, he would get player of the series and he would be playing for Australia. I was arguing with people last year when he signed his contract that he was worth the $450k a year, most thought it was too much. I think $450k was top of what he was worth then, and i think $550k is what i'd be paying him now.

Haas was on $750k a year when he had his hissy fit and wanted a million and then the extension to go up to $1.2 million in 2025. Thats a massive increase. I can pretty much guarantee Carrigan wont carry on like Haas either. I dont get why people have an issue with any player who improves their game so much getting a pretty modest pay bump after the kind of improvement Carrigan has shown and its still pretty common practice to try to tie down a player after such an improvement.

This paying the club back because you are injured is just nonsense. I get the sentiment, but Like i said, if you go that way, then you cant say he isnt worth more money when he playing like a forward on double the money and shouldnt get an increase.

The club are probably in a no win position. They dont give him an upgrade, he gets alienated. If he gets the upgrade but no extension, the fans will get the shits, but if he gets a year or 2 upgrade on what he is on now and he breaks down with injury, you get the Boyd situation again where the club gets crucified for dishing out a long, expensive contract. I still think the best option is give him the $100k and review it again at the end of 2023.

Emm...I have to disagree with your first statement.

 

[broncoscope]

I've got no problem with Patty getting a pay rise as long as he extends for 2 years.
Probably worth $600 k now that he's a QLD and Australian rep and that's about Max money any forward is worth in my eyes.
They aren't spine players, after all..

 

[Wolfie]

Emm...I have to disagree with your first statement.

There werent many though that thought he would have achieved what he has.

 

[Gaz]

There werent many though that thought he would have achieved what he has.

But he did.

 

[Wolfie]

But he did.

He's had a tough week. Tbf though, it was Scotland.