Broncos vs Sea Eagles Post Game Discussion

[OXY-351]

Why? If you field a kick off and let it hit your leg or stomach it's not a knock on. Same thing.

I'm surprised at the outrage over this. The grounding with your torso rule has been in place since 1908 (well, a long time anyway)!

It's not the same thing. Fielding a kick off is not the same as scoring a try. Rules aren't always the same for attacking and defending plays. Have a look a the rules for mid air tackles in defence compared to attack.

Doesn't a player need to have "control of the ball" when grounding it for a try? You could hardly say that Lyon had control when scoring it with his torso.

I'm happy with his other tries though. imo his try wasn't technically the same as Haynes. Hayne knocked the ball over an opposition player before he got to the opposition player. At least Lyon was competing for the ball at the same time with Winterstein, and it could be argued he was trying to catch the ball, albeit one handed. It's a bit of a grey area I suppose as to whether a player is "juggling" a ball or intentionally "tapping" it forward. It's not like there has been any consistency in regards to this rule anyway. Breet Stewart's try that was awarded a season or 2 ago was much similar to Haynes than Lyons was.

 

[Coxy]

Doesn't a player need to have "control of the ball" when grounding it for a try? You could hardly say that Lyon had control when scoring it with his torso.

No! You don't need control over it. I've clarified this with a mate of mine who's a Q Cup ref/touch judge. Under the rules Lyon's second try was fine.

There was no knock on, as it didn't touch the hand or arm, and then he forced it with his stomach. Fair try.

It's a shit rule, but it's the rule.

 

[Coxy]

From the Q Cup:

Giant young Broncos star Taylor scored one and set-up two other tries, busting a tackle for five-eighth Jade Williams to touch down before throwing a 20-metre cut-out pass for winger Junior Auru to crash over in the corner for the match-winner with two minutes to go.

Time to bring him back in for Palmer Wapau IMO. Palmer's had a taste, now needs some time back in Q Cup to think about it.

 

[mrslong]

I was more annoyed at the Ref calling back the ball for the scrum when we would have scored, there was no double knock on, it was play on. And also the Matai being off side. It was almost as though the ref's were told to give Manly the benefit of the doubt.

Does anyone know why Marsh didn't come back on? Surely even if he was injured he would've done better than Gorrell, it's no surprise that we scored all our points when he was on the field. He looked sharp!

How often has Michaels hung Winterstein out to dry this season? He is utterly useless, makes Winterstein look 2nd rate under the high ball when really it's Michaels's fault. Yesterday's game was sooo depressing.

We're going to get smacked on Friday night if changes aren't made. I'm a wapau fan but did he make ANY tackles? Bring back Taylor.

Teo looked good though.

 

[lynx000]

My views for what they are worth. I think there were at least a couple of questionable decisions, but largely they are irrelevant because a team that is going to challenge for the premiership should not lost a game which they have led 16-0. Particularly when the opposition is 2 from 8 for the year and has 5 players backing up from rep games. Poor form by us, complete lack of intensity in the second half. They are not playing like a broncos team.

Beale - very solid debut for a young kid. Looked calm under pressure and had lots of time, would like to see more of him.

Michaels - I have watched with interest the comments by posters about him. I think his Phi Beta Kappa name should be Turnstile after yesterday's performance. He made Lyons look like a world beater and basically did not have a clue whenever Lyons got the ball. Q-Cup for you son to learn how to tackle and position yourself in defence and how to pass the ball and set up your winger.

PJ Marsh - what a breath of fresh air he was in the first half. Ivan, why did you not bring him back in the second half when it became obvious (a) that Gorrell had an injury and was struggling; and (b) that the attack was grinding to a halt with Gorrell at dummy half??????

Wapau - very little impact and appeared to be overawed. Has had a taste and needs to go back to Q-Cup. We need Taylor back we get some impact from him when he is on.

Attack - I agree we seemed to play like headless chooks in the second half. The turning the ball back on the inside is okay to try, but if it is not working, leave it and try something else. We were just getting chewed up by the defence.

Second half - These continual fade outs in the second half are really becoming worrisome. I think they need to change whatever they are giving them at half time. Perhaps it should be Red Bulls all round.

 

[broncosil]

My opinion - how a team loses after leading 16-0 early on is interesting and questions need to be raised. How Henjak can continue week to week without making tough decisions on Michaels, Taylor and Marsh. No other team would persist with Michaels this long. Not only that but has his form ever been truly consistent over the years, or because he was one of Bennett's favourite sons that he was allowed to continue playing when he clealy should've been dropped.

We have Yow Yeh, Hoffman, Beale, Hewitt and I am sure others that I can't remember right now for outside back options, it is not like Michaels is our only choice.

Gorrell is too old and too slow, and McCullogh is too inexperienced. That isn't his fault but time in Qld cup will help this. Right now the forwards need some serious guidance from an experienced hooker. The forwards look lost because no one is there to guide them around.

We need Taylor back now. The only way he will get match fit and be able to play more game time is if they make him do that in the NRL.

The broncos need to address why they slack off so much in the second half. This has been happening for years. FFS fix it up, it is pathetic. Not to mention the amount of offloads we concede, poor marker defense (why are we always the last to get up, maybe our forwards are too lazy) and the lack of true dominant tackles.

The above problems have been going on for years now and maybe because they are so used to it that they haven't fixed it. Will it take for them to miss the eight they need to rectify this crap?

 

[bronco_babe77]

Hmm... not happy Jan.

Was impressed with some of our attack in the first half. I'm really getting sick of the Broncos being such 2nd half losers. It's happening so much its becoming a mental edge to the opposition.

Credit to PJ - thought he was great. Locky was awesome - as was Winterstien. He is the perfect replacement for us losing Kemp. His last try was such a great effort - looking forward to seeing more of that.

Michaels has to go. I still don't understand why he is still there instead of Yow Yeh. It's definately time now for the change - I think he has had enough chances. You put a youngin in there now (or rotate a few over the weeks) and they will go great guns trying to prove themselves and have mega determination.

 

[Kimlo]

Is it just me, or is winterstien terrible under the high ball in defense? I know his attack is awesome, but his defense under the high ball is very very poor, jarrad hayne could of got 3 tries against him, was poor again yesterday in that area, and it seems he really struggles under the high ball defensively.

I'm not sure if it's a confidence thing, because in attack he's very good at it, but in defense he's poor, maybe Michaels is not giving him any cover? I don't know but he seriously needs to work on that part of his game, I guess it's another reason to have folau at left centre.

 

[Coxy]

Is it just me, or is winterstien terrible under the high ball in defense? I know his attack is awesome, but his defense under the high ball is very very poor, jarrad hayne could of got 3 tries against him, was poor again yesterday in that area, and it seems he really struggles under the high ball defensively.

I'm not sure if it's a confidence thing, because in attack he's very good at it, but in defense he's poor, maybe Michaels is not giving him any cover? I don't know but he seriously needs to work on that part of his game, I guess it's another reason to have folau at left centre.

That's part of it. Summerpot definitely has improvement in him, particularly turning and chasing. But it'd really help if he had a decent centre partner who helped him out.

Compare Hodges and the way he helps out Folau. He's almost always directly in line with Folau with his back turned so chasers have to go around him.

Michaels just dawdles back or stands right beside Summerpot being absolutely useless, like he is.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Also, its much harder for a defender to diffuse a bomb because they have no momentum, most of the time they are standing still. Maybe he needs to learn to position himself better so he can get a bit of a run up.

 

[Coxy]

True that. How bad was Wolfman? LOL.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Hopefully good enough for NSW lol

 

[Jargernaut]

technically, lyons try was fine. you cant knock on with ur torso, but u can ground the ball with it. Its a horrible rule, and needs to be changed so if u can ground the ball with ur torso, u can also knock it on. personally id rather them just say you cant ground the ball with anything but ur arms.

the thing that bugs me the most about that try is lyon NEVER had control of the football, tries that given for grounding with the torso are usually when the ball is on the ground already (i think ray warren mentioned that in the coverage).

 

[Coxy]

It WAS on the ground when he actually grounded it. The initial knock forward off the hip is irrelevant. It'd be exactly like toeing it ahead in goal and then falling on it.

 

[forward_pass]

The Lyon grounding was a mistake by the video ref, that is why Sterlo and co were going on and on.

Here is the rule below, the ball came into contact with Lyon above his waist and was propelled forward, it was not on the ground, therefore it is an incorrect grounding and is play on because there has been no knock on. For Lyon to have scored he would need to regain control and ground the ball.

GROUNDING means

(a) placing the ball on the ground with hand or
THE BALL hands or

(b) exerting a downward pressure on the ball
with hand or arm, the ball itself being on the
ground or

(c) dropping on the ball and covering it with the
part of the body above the waist and below
the neck, the ball itself being on the ground.


Incorrect grounding ......... When an attacking player fails to ground the ball correctly,
play continues unless stopped for some other reason, e.g. a
knock-on or the ball goes dead.

I agree Bani was offside when he caught the ball , also Matai was offside when we were away late in the game and how that was missed is a mystery. Overall we were dudded but having said that we were far enough in front if good enough.

http://www.arldevelopment.com.au/filead ... e_2008.pdf

I see what you are saying BUT, he did ground the ball correctly according to that rule, it just happened to be after he had already hit it forward with his torso. The rule doesnt state that you can ground the ball with your torso BUT only if you havent already touched it with your torso. Fact of the matter is, he landed on the ball, while it was touching the ground.

Its still pretty grey for mine. I only think this is because if it was a wayward pass (or airswing) that hit him in the guts and went forward then picked up that would be a knock on most likely. Anyways, we can't have it back, and the result will probably be the same. Time to move on, sick of different rules applying to different parts fo the field.

I have more issues with the Clinton offside penalty, the ball was stripped, if anything accidental offside and a scrum, not a penalty.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

It WAS on the ground when he actually grounded it. The initial knock forward off the hip is irrelevant. It'd be exactly like toeing it ahead in goal and then falling on it.

Exactly. Everything up to the ball being on the ground is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is, when he landed on the ball with his hip, it was on the ground. Try, as stupid as it is

 

[mrslong]

He had no fricken control of the ball...

 

[bigjim]

What can I say guys?
You were robbed.
What sucks the most is you were robbed by the refs.
Which seems to happening a lot lately.