Eels - 2016 Issues

[mitch222]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

How quick insurance sorts out is probably out of Parra's control though but that'd be the best fix.

That's a toughie now I think about it. If your in charge of Parra right now do you just sit tight and wait for Watmough's $$$ to get off the cap? Unlikely it'd be sorted before their next game considering how long its dragged on already, so they might end up playing for no points and completely shut the door on making the eight this season... But if you have a fire sale you start to damage next season and lose players you might otherwise keep. So do they write off this season with an eye to the next.

570k is a bit of cash - do they have to replace those spots in their 25 or can they have a squad with less players? If they have to replace them with guys on minimum wage it makes things harder again - they'd be more likely to lose someone they want to keep.

knowing insurance companies, it can be up to 2 years to process a claim. they love dragging it out

 

[Tunza's Chin]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

Maybe the Watmough situation is more complex than we think. IIRC the new agreement says that if a player has to retire prematurely, then the player is entitled to their full contract worth, but the club does not have to carry the full amount in the cap. That does sound like it will be the simplest solution, however because he has yet to retire maybe only the remaining part of his contract would be partially exempt once he does retire, therefore the pre-season and first 9 rounds will be fully included in the cap, which would end up being more than half of a year's salary anyway (considering contracts go from October to October or whatever).

I still think the NRL is deliberately ignoring the role of the player's managers in all of this. They know the rules and regulations for 3rd party deals. If what I'm reading is true, the problem is that these deals have been struck with official club sponsors - surely that's something the managers should be checking? Either they're in on the rort, or they're grossly incompetent.

Player managers probably have an idea of what's going on, but at the end of the day the club has to be the one responsible for managing the cap not the managers. I don't think you can really hold them responsible - a manager can't cheat the cap alone, it has to come from the club.

What do we expect a manager do if his player receive's what he think may be a dodgy payment? Report to the NRL - losing the player and their business $$$$, damaging his relationship with both? That's a bloody hard ask. Do they risk that if their not 100% certain it isn't above board? Do we think they would always KNOW for sure that is dodge? I'm not so sure... The club would always know with certainty.

Plus, since why add another expense to a third seperate entity in the game to manage the cap. The NRL/Clubs already spend enough rugby league resources managing the cap. Sure, from the outside looking in it does look like managers do 3/5th's of 5/8th's of sweet FA for their %, but if their asked to do more they will probably look for compensation elsewhere... Charging player's more? The NRL?

As far as I am concerned a manager should be able to wring every last cent out of a club for their player without having to worry about the cap - that's their job. The clubs job is to manage the cap.

 

[Tunza's Chin]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

How?!?!?!?!?! I know there were some surprisingly large contract figures thrown about.

$450k for Norman
$550k for Sandow
$450k for Lussick
$800k for Hopoate
Who knows what for Hayne

But they didn't all play in the same seasons (Hayne didn't play beside Hoppa, for example). Were these figures not even close to what the players were really paid? It's insane.

It should serve as a warning to clubs (looking at you Tigers) who sack coaches like it's going out of fashion... Keep doing it and it'll cost you $3million over the cap just to buy wooden spoons....

 

[tommy]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

Well I'm pretty sure Corey Norman won't be getting the million a season he wants from Parra.

 

[Foordy]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

 

[Foordy]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

too much :tongue:

 

[Morkel]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

Player managers probably have an idea of what's going on, but at the end of the day the club has to be the one responsible for managing the cap not the managers. I don't think you can really hold them responsible - a manager can't cheat the cap alone, it has to come from the club.

What do we expect a manager do if his player receive's what he think may be a dodgy payment? Report to the NRL - losing the player and their business $$$$, damaging his relationship with both? That's a bloody hard ask. Do they risk that if their not 100% certain it isn't above board? Do we think they would always KNOW for sure that is dodge? I'm not so sure... The club would always know with certainty.

Plus, since why add another expense to a third seperate entity in the game to manage the cap. The NRL/Clubs already spend enough rugby league resources managing the cap. Sure, from the outside looking in it does look like managers do 3/5th's of 5/8th's of sweet FA for their %, but if their asked to do more they will probably look for compensation elsewhere... Charging player's more? The NRL?

As far as I am concerned a manager should be able to wring every last cent out of a club for their player without having to worry about the cap - that's their job. The clubs job is to manage the cap.

The manager's aren't supposed to manage a cap, but they are supposed to look out for their clients. Did they make their clients aware that a percentage of the money that they are getting is illegal? And therefore if the club gets busted then they'll potentially lose that money, lose their contract, and/or be forced to move to a new club? The club is a shithouse but you can't **** a salary cap without other parties being complicit.

 

[Tunza's Chin]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

The manager's aren't supposed to manage a cap, but they are supposed to look out for their clients. Did they make their clients aware that a percentage of the money that they are getting is illegal? And therefore if the club gets busted then they'll potentially lose that money, lose their contract, and/or be forced to move to a new club? The club is a shithouse but you can't **** a salary cap without other parties being complicit.

That's a fair point regarding the managers responsibility to players that I hadn't thought of. And for those managers involved, losing clients and reputation in what I assume is a pretty competitive industry is how they naturally get punished anyway. Again, I am not sure they would be 100% certain that payments are dodgy... And if their not sure why would they self report to the NRL or do anything about it? Either they and their player, loses $$$ or he invites the NRL to look around a clubs books - no club regardless of their compliance is going to want that. Either way thats lose-lose and just unrealistic to expect them to do anything differently besides taking the moolah.

I agree you can't without other parties being complicit, but all it takes is the clubs to be policed/compliant for there to be no issues. Whether its between club and player, club and manager or club and third party, the clubs always the common denominator. I'd rather the NRL splash some cash around Jnr. footy or get to the real issues like the price of a fuckin middie at the game, then waste time and money investigating any other party. Either way what'd the agents in the storm saga cop? Three of em got six months or something like that? Maybe a couple of warnings? My memory as hazy...

The buck needs to stop with the club. Why bother investigating to let us know what known throughout sporting world - there's not much agents won't do for a couple of extra quid.

 

[HVbronco]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

Worst salery cap cheats ever. At least when the Storm were doing in the actually were winning things.

 

[Sproj]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

So...how did they think they could afford Jennings?

 

[Unbreakable]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

For reference Ryan Morgan has been rumoured to sign with the Storm for a while now, and Anthony Watmough is 100% going to retire - Not sure how much exactly Watmough was on, but that should comfortably cover the $570k

 

[Tunza's Chin]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

For reference Ryan Morgan has been rumoured to sign with the Storm for a while now, and Anthony Watmough is 100% going to retire - Not sure how much exactly Watmough was on, but that should comfortably cover the $570k

Definitely but it's be known insurance sorting itself is all thats standing in the way of him announcing - unlikely it will happen before their next game.

 

[broncos4life]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

So...how did they think they could afford Jennings?

Because they thought they wouldn't be caught.

 

[Morkel]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

That's a fair point regarding the managers responsibility to players that I hadn't thought of. And for those managers involved, losing clients and reputation in what I assume is a pretty competitive industry is how they naturally get punished anyway. Again, I am not sure they would be 100% certain that payments are dodgy... And if their not sure why would they self report to the NRL or do anything about it? Either they and their player, loses $$$ or he invites the NRL to look around a clubs books - no club regardless of their compliance is going to want that. Either way thats lose-lose and just unrealistic to expect them to do anything differently besides taking the moolah.

I agree you can't without other parties being complicit, but all it takes is the clubs to be policed/compliant for there to be no issues. Whether its between club and player, club and manager or club and third party, the clubs always the common denominator. I'd rather the NRL splash some cash around Jnr. footy or get to the real issues like the price of a fuckin middie at the game, then waste time and money investigating any other party. Either way what'd the agents in the storm saga cop? Three of em got six months or something like that? Maybe a couple of warnings? My memory as hazy...

The buck needs to stop with the club. Why bother investigating to let us know what known throughout sporting world - there's not much agents won't do for a couple of extra quid.

From memory the Storm agents copped something like that - 6 month bans. In the Storm's example though, there were multiple contracts signed, each with different amounts. Without dredging up the past, there's no way those managers didn't know. And I think that's why we're here - there was a precedent set when they didn't want to sit out 4 of the world's best players - so now the NRL is stuck putting all the blame on the clubs when the managers (and legally, the players, they signed them!) are just as liable IMO.

 

[Sproj]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

Because they thought they wouldn't be caught.

But haven't they been under investigation since last year?

 

[tommy]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

But haven't they been under investigation since last year?

I think this is right. And I'm pretty sure the NRL knew they had a slam dunk case too. Makes me wonder why they were even allowed to compete or accumulate points at the Auckland 9's. Now it has made a mockery of it,another great job by the NRL. I guess they must have thought they would never win it.

 

[Foordy]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

But haven't they been under investigation since last year?

well a smart board wouldn't have taken the risk of doing anything dodgy while under investigation, the order goes something like this

smart boardrooms

good boardrooms

decent boardrooms

poor board rooms

completely fucking stupid boardrooms

daylight

daylight

daylight

daylight

Parramatta's boardroom

 

[Porthoz]

Re: Eels Salary Cap Breach

What really is mind boggling, is that they were never even close to being contenders (wooden spoon not included) during that period! :noidea: