(Ex-) Cronulla players admitted drug cheats!

[Huge]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Nashy, although we butt heads a lot I find on this point many areas of agreement. You cannot argue with closed minds. As usual many posters are so high and mighty and live in this idyllic world where everything is black and white and the standards are incontrovertible.I know their views would be so so much more moderate if this were the Broncos but they will stridently deny that. Oh no they'd cry, I'd feel the same no matter who it is because I have standards, absolute and inviolate.

Its inconceivable to them that many of these players simply followed the example of others and or trusted the clubs expertise. It is so much easier for them to believe 17 players, staff and associates all colluded to gain an edge,keep it silent and all of them agreed to not help ASADA. They even think that each player knowingly injected ( or used as a cream ) a cocktail of drugs for horses ( lol Kaz ) and did so simply to cheat the system.

I think it much more likely that they asked if what they were getting was okay and were reassured that not only was it alright but that it was simply to assist with injury recovery. Incidentally, that was Danks speciality, recovery and not enhancement. So, the man at the centre of it all, what's he been found guilty of ?

 

[Nashy]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Harsh or not Nashy, they had drugs injected in them. Said drugs were banned. They are not abiding by the rules, hence they are cheating.

Drug. Cheats.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I think it's harsh, but the rules are the rules. I'm not calling for the rules to be changed.

So you're just reinforcing my point.

If it's in a syringe and you're not ill or injured, it's actually a red flag. That is something which is actually told to any professional sports person in those seminars they must attend.

Why do you keep ignoring these guide-lines? Another important one, is that unless unable to, the players should always source the medication/supplements themselves. Guess what, there isn't much chance of you getting dodgy substances from your local chemist... and if the substance is not available from your local chemist, it's another red flag!

Are you actually telling me that if you were a player, not sick or injured, and the club doctor told you to go outside club premises to get injections administered on a regular basis with stuff you have no clue about, you'd just do it...?

The club Dr didn't direct them there, nor tell them to take said drugs. It was done without the knowledge of the club, and we are yet to see any further information about that rumour, so we really can't judge the situation on it.

 

[Nashy]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Nashy, although we butt heads a lot I find on this point many areas of agreement. You cannot argue with closed minds. As usual many posters are so high and mighty and live in this idyllic world where everything is black and white and the standards are incontrovertible.I know their views would be so so much more moderate if this were the Broncos but they will stridently deny that. Oh no they'd cry, I'd feel the same no matter who it is because I have standards, absolute and inviolate.

Its inconceivable to them that many of these players simply followed the example of others and or trusted the clubs expertise. It is so much easier for them to believe 17 players, staff and associates all colluded to gain an edge,keep it silent and all of them agreed to not help ASADA. They even think that each player knowingly injected ( or used as a cream ) a cocktail of drugs for horses ( lol Kaz ) and did so simply to cheat the system.

I think it much more likely that they asked if what they were getting was okay and were reassured that not only was it alright but that it was simply to assist with injury recovery. Incidentally, that was Danks speciality, recovery and not enhancement. So, the man at the centre of it all, what's he been found guilty of ?

That's the big question. Where is that prick. Surely he can be done for malpractice or something. He's pulled two of our major codes through the mud, but seems to get away with not even being spoken about in the media.

 

[Porthoz]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I think it's harsh, but the rules are the rules. I'm not calling for the rules to be changed.



The club Dr didn't direct them there, nor tell them to take said drugs. It was done without the knowledge of the club, and we are yet to see any further information about that rumour, so we really can't judge the situation on it.

Well, you are saying that they should be able to trust the doctor, which would be the premise for their "innocence through lack of knowledge".

All I am saying is that if they were taking injections in the above referred conditions, as is being widely rumoured, the "I trusted what the club doctor told me" line, is bullshit.

All this time, I have been saying that "if not injured or sick", you should never just accept injections, no matter what anyone from the club tells you, and you should source any medications/supplements yourself, while sourcing your own information about said medication/supplements.

 

[1910]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Its inconceivable to them that many of these players simply followed the example of others and or trusted the clubs expertise.

Not inconceivable at all and mostly likely true., just makes them complete and utter idiots that don't listen and refuse to be educated.

 

[1910]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I think it's harsh, but the rules are the rules. I'm not calling for the rules to be changed.



The club Dr didn't direct them there, nor tell them to take said drugs. It was done without the knowledge of the club, and we are yet to see any further information about that rumour, so we really can't judge the situation on it.

But if the Doctor did direct that, you would do it no questions asked.

 

[1910]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

So my argument, since you don't seem to be understanding it, is simple. IF the players took the drugs based purely on what they were told to take from their doctors, and they were non the wiser, this is a harsh situation.

I've made that incredibly clear. I suggest you read the posts again if you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

Then you go ahead and bring up four people who simply strengthen my thought that you lack the understanding of my argument to even respond to me.

Lance Armstrong. Knew he was doping.
Ben Johnson. Knew he was doping.
Sam Riley. Coach was not a doctor.
Shane Warne. Mother was not a doctor.

Seriously. If you're not going to read what people say on here, why bother replying to those people?

That's all assumptions- A doctor could have been behind all of them and ignorance played a huge part.

 

[Nashy]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

But if the Doctor did direct that, you would do it no questions asked.

There are so many scenarios that could be taken into consideration and that could have happened before I can even think about answering a question like that.

I will say that when my Dr. gives me a referral, I action it. Just how many doctors am I meant to check with exactly to make sure the advice I am getting is sound. I've been going to the same doctor for ten years, I trust him.

Add to the fact that these players not only put their trust in him, and the club, they trust the advice they are given.

In saying that. Maybe they weren't told to go and see him. Maybe they just did it off their own backs, in which case if they haven't checked the supplements a non club condoned doctor is giving them, well too bad.

 

[Ari Gold]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

How many doctors you should see is irrelevant. You aren't a professional athlete. The way a professional athlete should treat their bodies and what goes into them is vastly different to how you should.

 

[Porthoz]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

There are so many scenarios that could be taken into consideration and that could have happened before I can even think about answering a question like that.

I will say that when my Dr. gives me a referral, I action it. Just how many doctors am I meant to check with exactly to make sure the advice I am getting is sound. I've been going to the same doctor for ten years, I trust him.

Add to the fact that these players not only put their trust in him, and the club, they trust the advice they are given.

In saying that. Maybe they weren't told to go and see him. Maybe they just did it off their own backs, in which case if they haven't checked the supplements a non club condoned doctor is giving them, well too bad.

Your doctor will generally give you a referral or a script that you can pick-up at the Chemist, hardly comparable to what reportedly happened here.

Besides, as Ari said, you don't need to be as cautious as a professional sportsman must be with what goes into your body, especially if it comes out of a vial and is injected into you without a valid reason (be it vaccine, injury or illness).

I could understand an isolated incident, but not what is alleged to have occurred with 17 different players, on repeated occasions and outside club premises too.

 

[Porthoz]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Also, let's not forget that we have the Essendon affair to base these allegations on, besides declarations from some stake holders in this affair. This is not just pulled out of thin air and these are not baseless accusations.

 

[Nashy]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

That's all assumptions- A doctor could have been behind all of them and ignorance played a huge part.

It's not an assumption. It's just one of many scenarios that could have happened.

I don't see the reason for you reply.

 

[Mr Fourex]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

That's the big question. Where is that prick. Surely he can be done for malpractice or something. He's pulled two of our major codes through the mud, but seems to get away with not even being spoken about in the media.

I'm pretty sure Dank's name has been mentioned along with the latest news.

ASADA want him banned for life from both the NRL and AFL

ASADA Reportedly Calls For Stephen Dank To Be Banned For Life From The NRL And The AFL | Business Insider

 

[Nashy]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Your doctor will generally give you a referral or a script that you can pick-up at the Chemist, hardly comparable to what reportedly happened here.

Besides, as Ari said, you don't need to be as cautious as a professional sportsman must be with what goes into your body, especially if it comes out of a vial and is injected into you without a valid reason (be it vaccine, injury or illness).

I could understand an isolated incident, but not what is alleged to have occurred with 17 different players, on repeated occasions and outside club premises too.

Where are you getting this confirmed information? Don't link me to an article with commentators commenting on what could have happened.

Show me the FACTS that have allowed the majority of this forum to come to the conclusion that it is 100% the player. Show me how it went down, give me the conversations, the reasons, what they were told.

Give me some facts to make judgement.

At the moment we have show cause notices saying you could be suspended. We are yet to see anything that can allow us to make a decision on what has actually happened.

 

[Kaz]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Show me the FACTS that have allowed the majority of this forum to come to the conclusion that it is 100% the player. Show me how it went down, give me the conversations, the reasons, what they were told.

Them being professional athletes, it is their responsibility what goes into their bodies. Even if the Dr tells them it's fine & it not, it's still the athletes problem.

 

[Porthoz]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

Where are you getting this confirmed information? Don't link me to an article with commentators commenting on what could have happened.

Show me the FACTS that have allowed the majority of this forum to come to the conclusion that it is 100% the player. Show me how it went down, give me the conversations, the reasons, what they were told.

Give me some facts to make judgement.

At the moment we have show cause notices saying you could be suspended. We are yet to see anything that can allow us to make a decision on what has actually happened.

Come on, if there were facts proving anything 100%, there wouldn't be any discussion, would there?

I don't have the burden of proof, nor am I slandering anyone. I am giving my opinion based on what has transpired so far, be it from the interested parties, ASADA and/or the Essendon affair. This makes me believe the version of players being injected with illegal substances on a regular base, often outside club premises.

Of course, I don't know the details, and how exactly the club doctor was involved, but all I'm saying is that, SHOULD the above be true, my stance stands: Throw the book at them!

Of course, the details will matter, and not all individuals may be guilty of the same, but I cannot abide by the "the club doctor said so, so I trusted him blindly and didn't know". Certainly not in this day and age, where warnings and clear education about this stuff is absolutely and forcefully shoved down sports professionals throats.

 

[Mr Fourex]

re: ASADA issues "Show of Cause" notices

The thing is.......the club doctor said don't use this stuff and was later sacked because of it.

The coach and trainer warned the players not to speak of the "supplements programme"

But Flanagan is guilty of not making sufficient inquiries about the status of the drugs and waiting until May 29 to sack Dank, despite warnings from Dr Givney. Furthermore, he joined with Elkin at that March 20 training session, insisting the players maintain secrecy about the supplements program, to the extent of not even telling other members of the Sharks' squad.

Read more: Shane Flanagan, Trent Elkin hadn't done their homework
​

Paul Gallen asked "what's in the needles"

and never got an answer.

There were plenty of signs for even those dumber than Paul Gallen to see that something wasn't quite right.

The 17 Sharks players aren't innocent. A 2 yr ban from all professional sport is the only acceptable outcome IMO

 

[Morkel]

The only tiny piece of info that makes me think that SOME were unaware of illegalities is that piece of paper Dank supposedly had. He's never presented it publicly, but the players said that it was a letter from a governing body (can't remember if it was ASADA) supposedly confirming that the drug(s) were legal. Since then that authority have claimed that they don't issue approvals in that format, so it was likely a forgery. But that would be enough for some to believe it was legal. But still, IIRC, Dank's not even a doctor...