POST GAME Finals Week 3 - Storm vs Broncos

[meady]

At least Manly isn't involved.

Lol, We will be next year Sir :biggrin:

 

[meady]

I hope @Sproj gives Kahu a decent rating purely for his late cannonball on Slater

 

[Sproj]

But is he better? Sure he played a part in our 2015 success but we don't know how much. It's not like he left and Hunt and Milford forgot everything he ever told them.

Maybe, maybe not but what he did with the next gen of origin this year speaks a lot to me that yes, he may well be. Why not get Bennett into coaching director or something and let Walters or Green come in as head coach? That way Bennett still plays to his never doubted strength - man management.

 

[Lebbo73]

It's time to face facts, boys. Our premiership chances ended when we gave up 2nd place with 2 insipid performances against the Eels. That was when we were fully exposed for the pretenders we were. Terrible attitude, no direction or desire in attack, errors for days and players on top dollar who quite frankly aren't living up to it.

Will be happily rid of Moga and frankly also Hunt next year, but I just can't see what miracles Bennett hopes to weave in the coming off season. This is a team that is wayyyy too comfortable in its own skin. It's getting to almost Warriors level of complacency, and it has to end.

While I don't think it is this bad, Thaiday should start next season in the Queensland Cup!

 

[mitch222]

Here's to hoping that bird is the word and he can make a big difference

 

[Lebbo73]

Five-eight is his right position and Shaun Johnson is not the answer to our halfback problem.

Fullback is his pos.
No to Johnson.
Boyd is past it.
Thaiday sees out his career in Q Cup.

 

[Porthoz]

I feel like unless we are at training or see actual details our opinions don't really matter. It's different to games because we have absolutely no idea what happens there. Are players being taught how to do things but are just unable to do it on the field? I think coaches get blamed more than players for the players mistakes. Maybe he is prioritizing helping these guys in their lives instead of doing their job on the field. Do we really know? Nope. Will we ever find out? Maybe if he writes another book. For me, Bennett has done enough to get the benefit of the doubt. I, for one, refuse to take Buzz Rothfields side on this argument.

Who would be a better, viable option than Wayne Bennett right now? I always see a lot of complaints but never any answers. Walters has the Origin team and was probably our first choice, but he left. Demitriou is probably next in line, but would you hand him the reigns next year?

It was, and has been my argument well before slothfield decided he should use it to bash Bennett.
Walters tenure disguised a lot of the flaws I was worried about before 2015, and greatly helped restore Bennett's aura, which had otherwise been gradually and deservedly degrading despite a premiership with the Dragons. There is no benefit of the doubt when the proof is in the pudding, and being orphan of Walters, fully exposed Bennett's deficiencies on the paddock.

You cannot be serious with the "Are players being taught how to do things but are just unable to do it on the field? I think coaches get blamed more than players for the players mistakes."

We have nothing in attack outside of individual's brilliance. We have in fact gone backwards in the last 2 years, and it's overwhelmingly clear it's because we have no structures, no set plays (other than the Boyd sweep), no ability to build pressure and capitalise against any team that won't open up avenues for our speedsters to run through. That's not because of players mistakes, it's in the first place a coaching issue, especially when you look at how many attacking weapons we have, because they're grossly under-utilised or simply misused.

I don't want to replace Bennett, as I would want to retain him in a management capacity, where he well and truly excels, and where he can prioritise helping the players in their lives instead of on the field.

Let's get a good tactician for that latter purpose, but let him decide who plays where, and isn't too stubborn to admit making mistakes!
- No more mandatory Boyd as fullback, no more forcing Milford into an organising role, no more starting with 2 props whom set us on the back foot because they make no meters, etc...
- Actually take advantage of second phase play and the skill from our forwards offloading into one of our speedsters, whom of course, need to be ready for that... through training it.
- Make our edge forwards run good lines, feed them proper ball when they're steaming into it, instead of forcing them to slow down to wait for the pass.
- Create and train set plays, ensure you have a variation of them, so you don't telegraph it ahead and give your opposition the advantage of knowing what's coming.
- Teach them how to maintain pressure and control a game. Admittedly, we probably need a player we don't have at the moment to be really successful at it. (yes, of course I am thinking of Taylor)

I don't know whether Demitriou is the person for the role. I haven't seen anything this season that inspires confidence to be honest.
There are good tacticians out there which you wouldn't want as head coaches, because they have no clue how to deal with young men, much less a whole group of them, but probably could do a job under Wayne's umbrella managing the team and individuals.

Also Bennett said negotiations "affects everyone, and he's no different".

So, Bennett said it, not Anthony. How is that holding the club to ransom... "metaphorically"?

P.S. Sorry for the text wall... I had a Morkelitis attack, where I couldn't summarise my thoughts.

 

[Renegade]

my take:

1. First and foremost we had absolutely no direction from the halves tonight, 2mins in we got a set of 6 inside their 30, what did we do? couple of one out hit ups through the middle and a nothing finish to the set. repeat for the rest of the night. how many times did we get caught fucking about on the last because the ball didn't get to where it was supposed to? pathetic.

2. boyd shouldn't have played, there's brave and there's selfish, he was the latter. you'd think the captain of the team would put the team first, you know, like a proper captain. thanks for the 53mins of nothing boyd, thumbs up.

3. moga is a dumb dumb footballer. he passes to oates we score, 4-2 at minimum, if not 6-2, and the game changes. instead he tries to be a hero and barge over with 3 players covering him from all angles instead of opting to pass to the unmarked oates. for every good thing he does he does 5 shit things - will not be missed, enjoy newcastle!

4. mcguire has a bit of paul gallen about him in the sense he tries to get too involved, too often. you're a glorified prop who can offload every now and then - you don't need to handle it every set, sometimes 2 times a set. don't overplay your hand.

5. agree with someone else who said this was milf's moment to step up and take charge but he was woeful in just about every aspect of the game - at least nikorima made a line break lol. he needs to spend the off season watching tapes of michael morgan because that's a half who translated a running game into something more. take advice and training from locky, johns, someone, anyone, because while the jink and step and move works every now and then, against teams like melbourne they will just suffocate you.

6. i'm not sure if he's instructed to stay out there or if he's not coming in looking for work, but why isn't the fastest guy in league sniffing around the ruck for the half breaks and offload opportunities? fair enough he's not getting enough ball where he is and that's a problem, but he needs to come in and try and inject himself in the game instead of waiting around.

7. glenn and gillette busted their arse tonight, full credit to them.

8. what a horrible way to end the season - i said in the pre match thread i'd rather lose convincingly than a close one at the death. be careful what you wish for. scoring a point would've been fucking nice at least.

9. we had our chances to win the game or at least stay in it and we fucked every single one with a combination of poor kicking, poor game management, and a completely unimaginative gameplan - i thought the idea was to throw it around? where was the fucking support runners if that was the case? or are we too ingrained in our normal style of player that our players simply do not react/think it's going to happen, so we just wait for the tackle to finish and set for the next ruck?

10. finally, thanks and good luck to hunt. we've all had a pop at him at one time or another but you could never doubt the guys effort.

i'm sure there's more but i can't think/too tired/doesn't matter in the long run.

 

[Cult]

So you think Bennett shows up to training and they run that sweep play all week? You have no idea and neither do I.

Milford was offered 2.7 over three years and didn't take it. Meanwhile he continued to play terribly and his coach knew it was affecting him. He could have taken that, because it's closer to what he deserved and moved on sooner than he did.

 

[Dash]

- Create and train set plays, ensure you have a variation of them, so you don't telegraph it ahead and give your opposition the advantage of knowing what's coming.

We have set plays, but our playmakers have zero sense of timing. The pass is thrown as rehearsed at training regardless of how the defence has reacted.

 

[Renegade]

We have set plays, but our playmakers have zero sense of timing. The pass is thrown as rehearsed at training regardless of how the defence has reacted.

that would indicate they have no feel for the game, they just "read off a script" so to speak. if it doesn't work don't deviate from the script.

 

[Cult]

Also do you think Wayne told them to not play the way Walters apparently told them to? Or were the Broncos trying to play expansive football at the beginning of the year and dropping almost every pass? Also we scored a lot of tries from the sweep play in 2015 as well. The biggest difference for me (Apart from Hodges) was Milford and Hunt playing together on the same side pretty regularly. Even this year when they got together things seemed to happen. Maybe there was a rift in the playing group.

 

[Dash]

that would indicate they have no feel for the game, they just "read off a script" so to speak. if it doesn't work don't deviate from the script.

This is exactly my criticism of the team. Nobody out there is capable of making a decision. It's either exactly as it was in training, or a total mess. Shit teams let us get away with the former, good teams force us into the latter.

 

[Porthoz]

So you think Bennett shows up to training and they run that sweep play all week? You have no idea and neither do I.

Milford was offered 2.7 over three years and didn't take it. Meanwhile he continued to play terribly and his coach knew it was affecting him. He could have taken that, because it's closer to what he deserved and moved on sooner than he did.

I don't know what we train, but it's pretty clear what we're missing.
What we dish out on the paddock is a direct consequence of training.
That's how it works, that's how it has always worked, and that's the coach's responsibility, whether you like it or not.

Trying to excuse Bennett's tactical crappyness with players not doing what they've been training for, is nothing but a desperate attempt to deflect blame.

It's incredible how well informed you are about Milford's contract saga.
What's your source... surely not the Australian sports media, right?

 

[Porthoz]

This is exactly my criticism of the team. Nobody out there is capable of making a decision. It's either exactly as it was in training, or a total mess. Shit teams let us get away with the former, good teams force us into the latter.

How is that not a coaching issue? Seriously!

Yes, Cronk, Smith and Slater are probably smarter than the average RL player, but they're the exception. Most teams execute so much better than us, with probably less than half the talent!

 

[Dash]

How is that not a coaching issue? Seriously!

Yes, Cronk, Smith and Slater are probably smarter than the average RL player, but they're the exception. Most teams execute so much better than us, with probably less than half the talent!

I'm not sure if it's a coaching issue, perhaps more of a recruitment issue. Instead of looking at the biggest, strongest, fastest or the best kicker, maybe we should be looking for the smartest?

 

[Cult]

I don't know what we train, but it's pretty clear what we're missing.
What we dish out on the paddock is a direct consequence of training.
That's how it works, that's how it has always worked, and that's the coach's responsibility, whether you like it or not.

Trying to excuse Bennett's tactical crappyness with players not doing what they've been training for, is nothing but a desperate attempt to deflect blame.

It's incredible how well informed you are about Milford's contract saga.
What's your source... surely not the Australian sports media, right?

It isn't clear. You just think it is but it's been known for a long time that you have no idea. I'm not doing another off season where everything is about Boyd and Bennett with no actual answers being put forward. I've asked you who should replace him and you've given nothing. Until you answer that I'm not bothering to reply.

 

[Porthoz]

I'm not sure if it's a coaching issue, perhaps more of a recruitment issue. Instead of looking at the biggest, strongest, fastest or the best kicker, maybe we should be looking for the smartest?

That definitely plays a role, and we probably lost our smartest player in Macca too this season.
But playing smarts is not the same as brain smarts, and I hope he forgives me for this, Locky is a great example of this.

We definitely also need an organiser... everyone including Wayne knows that, and I bet he regrets letting Taylor go more than anyone here, because that is a kid with footy smarts. Whether it's him or someone else, we need one badly, which will make us a better team.

But honestly, we lack much more than that.
We do not play to our strengths, we ignore the evidence and keep repeating the same mistakes with player selections, positioning, 5th tackle options, etc... and that's only one person's responsibility.

I mean, if Mitchell Pearce or Todd Carney can do it, anyone can!