RANT Flegler is a lazy footballer

[007]

I'm regularly seeing crucial mistakes...game altering mistakes.

Thats what 600k has bought us!

 

[ChewThePhatt]

He has always been a stop gap 13 because we had nobody else reliable. I had this argument with a couple of people even before he got into the NRL side. He is a workhorse prop who can happen to fill in at lock. I honestly don't get how people over rate him ( although that's probably down to me and my tongue in cheek praise for him ). He isn't a flashy, off loading forward and because of this myth we kept him over Arrow I think that's what people are expecting. He's never been that type of player.

I'll keep saying it, these young forwards need a couple of old heads on the field to take the pressure off. It's madness what we are expecting them to do.

Fair call.
& I agree, we desperately need some hard nut old heads. Some tuff experienced genuine footballers.

 

[Wolfie]

Fair call.
& I agree, we desperately need some hard nut old heads. Some tuff experienced genuine footballers.

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but i wonder where and when did the development of our younger players start falling apart. I think they are under way too much pressure with no management of their progress and no experience on the field to guide them Having people look to players like Haas and Carrigan and expecting them to lead our pack is just crazy.

 

[ozzball]

Probably the wrong thread and just putting it out there ... should we bring Moose home?

 

[Kimlo]

Probably the wrong thread and just putting it out there ... should we bring Moose home?

Don't rate him, pass from me.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

Probably the wrong thread and just putting it out there ... should we bring Moose home?

Yes. Battle hardened, no bullshit, can lead the young props and keep them in line. He hasn't got the temperament of a Webke or Civo, but he has their desire to win. Personally I think Peyton is insane thinking getting rid of Moose is what that team needs.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes. Battle hardened, no bullshit, can lead the young props and keep them in line. He hasn't got the temperament of a Webke or Civo, but he has their desire to win. Personally I think Peyton is insane thinking getting rid of Moose is what that team needs.

They had a bit of a disagreement apparently and it got a bit physical. Problem is with Moose this year is his form. The effort is there, but his mistakes are killing him. Dont think JT13 is impressed with Mr Peyton either.

 

[LockyersLeftBoot]

They had a bit of a disagreement apparently and it got a bit physical. Problem is with Moose this year is his form. The effort is there, but his mistakes are killing him. Dont think JT13 is impressed with Mr Peyton either.

Well if they aren't wanted in Townsville, I'd happily swap moose and JT13 for any of our forwards not named Haas, Carriagn or Riki.

 

[Dash]

Well if they aren't wanted in Townsville, I'd happily swap moose and JT13 for any of our forwards not named Haas, Carriagn or Riki.

I'd swap all 3 of those guys for JT13. McGuire could just be the set of steak knives in the deal.

 

[BroncsFan]

Probably deserves a thread of its own, but i wonder where and when did the development of our younger players start falling apart. I think they are under way too much pressure with no management of their progress and no experience on the field to guide them Having people look to players like Haas and Carrigan and expecting them to lead our pack is just crazy.

I think it occurred around 08 when the NYC started.

suddenly all the youngsters were on national tv and people could quickly see talented kids killing it and wanting to see them in first grade.

it effectively superseded reserve grade and player managers were licking their lips as the junior players on their books were given free advertising.

the media quickly jumped on realising fans wanted to hear about their young guys coming through... and of course they started writing articles about players leaving for more money or clubs circling.... clicks, clicks, clicks

prior to NYC I can barely recall hearing anything about young guys coming through until they actually debuted... channel 9 would give a little spiel about the juniors and who they resembled, and that was pretty much it.

I would actually be interested to see the average debut age before and since NYC.

broncos were obviously successful in the first year of NYC and I believe from that point we made an effort or felt pressure to bring that 08 group of players into first grade and transition the older guys out (Petero being one of the most notable)

We basically did the same thing in 2019 where every experienced guy was moved on for a younger new play thing and we have completely shit the bed. When we did this in 08 we at least had Lockyer, Hodgo, Parker, Thaiday, etc. whereas this time around we have Glenn and that’s about it.

 

[Wolfie]

I think it occurred around 08 when the NYC started.

suddenly all the youngsters were on national tv and people could quickly see talented kids killing it and wanting to see them in first grade.

it effectively superseded reserve grade and player managers were licking their lips as the junior players on their books were given free advertising.

the media quickly jumped on realising fans wanted to hear about their young guys coming through... and of course they started writing articles about players leaving for more money or clubs circling.... clicks, clicks, clicks

prior to NYC I can barely recall hearing anything about young guys coming through until they actually debuted... channel 9 would give a little spiel about the juniors and who they resembled, and that was pretty much it.

I would actually be interested to see the average debut age before and since NYC.

broncos were obviously successful in the first year of NYC and I believe from that point we made an effort or felt pressure to bring that 08 group of players into first grade and transition the older guys out (Petero being one of the most notable)

We basically did the same thing in 2019 where every experienced guy was moved on for a younger new play thing and we have completely shit the bed. When we did this in 08 we at least had Lockyer, Hodgo, Parker, Thaiday, etc. whereas this time around we have Glenn and that’s about it.

I reckon its probably started a bit later, but totally agree with the exposure of the younger guys from 2008. Up until recently we had a really good balance of bringing young blokes into the team gradually. Its seems the last 2 or 3 years we have only played these kids to keep them on the books.

 

[Big Pete]

I would actually be interested to see the average debut age before and since NYC.

I don't quite have that, but I did keep track of debuts dating back to 2003 just to see how quickly U/20s players were progressing through the grades.

Debuts
Pre-NYC
2003 - 51 U/20s 101 Total
2004 - 34 U/20s 76 Total
2005 - 29 U/20s 61 Total
2006 - 25 U/20s 72 Total
2007 - 27 U/20s 80 Total

NYC Era
2008 - 45 U/20s 75 Total
2009 - 36 U/20s 77 Total
2010 - 26 U/20s 66 Total
2011 - 23 U/20s 66 Total
2012 - 17 U/20s 55 Total
2013 - 23 U/20s 75 Total
2014 - 26 U/20s 74 Total
2015 - 14 U/20s 55 Total
2016 - 25 U/20s 71 Total
2017 - 17 U/20s 62 Total

Post-NYC
2018 - 23 U/20s 56 Total
2019 - 26 U/20s 73 Total
2020 - 24 U/20s 62 Total

A couple of correlations worth mentioning is that 2003 coincided with the second year of South Sydney's arrival in the competition. After winning the wooden spoon they went on a recruitment drive which saw clubs tested particularly around the Origin period. We also saw new coaches like Tim Sheens and Craig Bellamy make their mark on their respective clubs.

Similarly in 2007/08 we saw a similar uptick following the introduction from the Gold Coast. Note the percentage of U/20s making their debut in 2008/09. That suggests that in the early periods coaches were more willing to give an U/20s player an opportunity than be patient with them. This fell dramatically by 2012 which suggests either coaches became wise to it or they had exhausted the talent pool. We saw a resurgence in 2013-14 but then followed by another low in 2015 which seems odd given the amount of teams in the competition.

It's too early to judge the impact ending NYC had on debuts. Right now it doesn't appear to have made a difference, but a lot of these debutants came up through the NYC pathway.

 

[theshed]

With the way this club has been run lately, he’ll turn up with a USB-C device but all our computers will still be rocking 3.5” floppy drives.

The broncos decided to chase Donaghy when he impressed them during the interview with his inside knowledge.

Donaghy explained that Melbourne have developed a complex computer system that uses a secret algorithm that identifies the best football stars of the future. To which broncos official turned to each other in awe and said “wow did you hear that? The Storm have computers”

 

[Wolfie]

I don't quite have that, but I did keep track of debuts dating back to 2003 just to see how quickly U/20s players were progressing through the grades.

Debuts
Pre-NYC
2003 - 51 U/20s 101 Total
2004 - 34 U/20s 76 Total
2005 - 29 U/20s 61 Total
2006 - 25 U/20s 72 Total
2007 - 27 U/20s 80 Total

NYC Era
2008 - 45 U/20s 75 Total
2009 - 36 U/20s 77 Total
2010 - 26 U/20s 66 Total
2011 - 23 U/20s 66 Total
2012 - 17 U/20s 55 Total
2013 - 23 U/20s 75 Total
2014 - 26 U/20s 74 Total
2015 - 14 U/20s 55 Total
2016 - 25 U/20s 71 Total
2017 - 17 U/20s 62 Total

Post-NYC
2018 - 23 U/20s 56 Total
2019 - 26 U/20s 73 Total

A couple of correlations worth mentioning is that 2003 coincided with the second year of South Sydney's arrival in the competition. After winning the wooden spoon they went on a recruitment drive which saw clubs tested particularly around the Origin period. We also saw new coaches like Tim Sheens and Craig Bellamy make their mark on their respective clubs.

Similarly in 2007/08 we saw a similar uptick following the introduction from the Gold Coast. Note the percentage of U/20s making their debut in 2008/09. That suggests that in the early periods coaches were more willing to give an U/20s player an opportunity than be patient with them. This fell dramatically by 2012 which suggests either coaches became wise to it or they had exhausted the talent pool. We saw a resurgence in 2013-14 but then followed by another low in 2015 which seems odd given the amount of teams in the competition.

It's too early to judge the impact ending NYC had on debuts. Right now it doesn't appear to have made a difference, but a lot of these debutants came up through the NYC pathway.

Whats your take on where our development is going right now BP.

 

[Allo]

I think it occurred around 08 when the NYC started.

suddenly all the youngsters were on national tv and people could quickly see talented kids killing it and wanting to see them in first grade.

it effectively superseded reserve grade and player managers were licking their lips as the junior players on their books were given free advertising.

the media quickly jumped on realising fans wanted to hear about their young guys coming through... and of course they started writing articles about players leaving for more money or clubs circling.... clicks, clicks, clicks

prior to NYC I can barely recall hearing anything about young guys coming through until they actually debuted... channel 9 would give a little spiel about the juniors and who they resembled, and that was pretty much it.

I would actually be interested to see the average debut age before and since NYC.

broncos were obviously successful in the first year of NYC and I believe from that point we made an effort or felt pressure to bring that 08 group of players into first grade and transition the older guys out (Petero being one of the most notable)

We basically did the same thing in 2019 where every experienced guy was moved on for a younger new play thing and we have completely shit the bed. When we did this in 08 we at least had Lockyer, Hodgo, Parker, Thaiday, etc. whereas this time around we have Glenn and that’s about it.

Probably coincided with the rise of social media and youtube, the 24hr news cycle with panel shows and lower print sales. Germos had to be everywhere, looking at everything, writing or saying something to justify their positions. So they start rumor-mongering, blowing smoke up the young fellas who don't need any excuse to think big of themselves.

Suddenly the managers start seeing the cash available and sign them up early and do everything they can to get the best deal for themselves their clients as early as possible and you now have the situation of some certain clubs signing up their guns without a peep in the media and others having to pay massive overs just to try and keep players that probably shouldn't even be in first grade in the first place, but end being because that club have no money for anyone else or there's no one available. We are also victims of our own success in that if a player plays for us, he automatically becomes 'good' and therefore must test his value and must be on 500-600k minimum, even if he's a first year rookie. There's that thing of if enough people say it, it becomes accepted as truth or what should be reality.

And of this vicious cycle of media lying and framing to have people clicking articles and the resulting fallout is mostly due to every other club and its fans wanting us to fail because we are the easiest target, we're the most popular target and we wrecked the NSWRL. Now everyone is benefiting from this except us but they will continue to bleed us while looking after most of Sydney and the GC

 

[Jedhead]

The broncos decided to chase Donaghy when he impressed them during the interview with his inside knowledge.

Donaghy explained that Melbourne have developed a complex computer system that uses a secret algorithm that identifies the best football stars of the future. To which broncos official turned to each other in awe and said “wow did you hear that? The Storm have computers”

You’re talking shit here. White actually turned and said “what’s a computer?”

whenis our CEO allowed to be a CEO again?

 

[Mum-the-meatloaf]

Carrigan has the potential to be a Corey parker type player. Maintain consistency, defend well and have some flashy players around you.

I just find Flegler is only noticeable in the attacking 20, and doesn't seem to put in the effort elsewhere.

I don’t rate Carrigan as anything more than a toiler. He has no footwork, no offload, his hitups are nothing special but he does a lot, his defence isn’t anything to write home about, and he is lazy in the ruck.

Flegler runs hard, his defence is awful. He is a penalty magnet because he is clearly thicker than a whale omelette and he has hands for feet.

Obviously then, both are on massive long term contracts with us...

 

[Big Pete]

Whats your take on where our development is going right now BP.

Their development has been off the boil since 2019.

I've never been completely satisfied with the Broncos development programs. They bring enough in to be among the best in the NRL but they should be head and shoulders above the rest given the amount of resources they have at their disposal. Still, they were attracting the best Queensland talent which was something you couldn't say after Cyril retired and they were bleeding talent to Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne.

However in '19 the Broncos started to lose all their best junior prospects and failed to replace them with adequate signings. The cupboard is nearly bare after Brendan Piakura and they had to pay a king's ransom to keep him. I'm not even sure if he'll live up to that, if he can't make the 17 by the end of this year I fail to see how it's a good investment. Based on what I've seen, I don't think he's ready and won't be ready until 2023.

It's not completely dire they do have Selywn Cobbo, TC Robati, Xavier Willison, Xavier Va'a, Shaun Packer coming through but again you're looking at 2023-2024 before they can be considered NRL players. The Broncos can't afford to be reliant on these players, some of them won't play NRL and some of them may just be average first graders. That's fine but my point is that the Broncos have to keep searching and find that next Ryan Papenhuyzen and get them into their system.