Four Nations Week 2

[Danoz Direct]

I'm sure he will prove me wrong in the future but to be completely honest I am starting to wonder a bit about DCE. Only has ever shown his best form playing for manly so it makes me wonder is it to do with the players around him there

I get the feeling Hunt might surpass him in the Origin and Australian pecking order soon.

 

[Morkel]

It obviously depends on the position, where you shouldn't select a playmaker that was carried by his team (such as the Bulldogs ones for example), as opposed to carrying them (such as Hunt).
On the other hand, a player such as Guerra, who has been consistently good throughout the season, without being a standout and obviously part of a whole within a strong team, should be there ahead of a player who has done nothing to warrant selection... like Hoffman for example.

Guerra is exactly the type of player I would warn against. He's made to look better than he is because the opposition are putting all their efforts in to handling JWH, SBW, etc. Or Inglis during Origin.

 

[Big Pete]

That's a complete cop-out, as even if there wasn't an obvious individual choice, it was obvious we needed more than one prop in the squad. I wouldn't whinge if my preferred choice wasn't there, as long as we had 2 or 3 of the guys you name in your post in the squad. It would certainly make a difference.
Fact is, contrary to your opinion, we had a lot of choices, even if none of them was consensual.

I agree that there should have been around two more props selected, give or take.

However, I'm not going to rack the selectors or Sheens over the coals for it. While I'd have faith that certain guys there could get the job done, others I wouldn't want in my squad and I couldn't see them improving the team.

Hunt would've been a no brainer in last week's team, even if only on the bench instead of the useless Farah.

In hindsight, maybe but I couldn't see it making a big difference because the entire team was off and it wasn't anyone player coming up with poor plays - they all did.

Going into the game, I would have preferred Klemmer over both.

But he's not right for the team. @Big Pete , I still think the team needs a bench utility though. If not to cover for injuries, but at least be there to work towards the future, in terms of experience.

That's an interesting point you make Morkel. I hadn't thought of the experience factor but I think there's a reason behind it.

At this level, I largely think it's hogwash.

Especially in a competition like this that allows you to blood talent against the weaker nation. That's the perfect game to see how the players go outside of a structure that caters to them.

As for why I think it's hogwash - look at the players you brought up - DCE & Cronk. Both of them are two of the best halves in the competition and were already in that position even before they became regulars in the rep arena. Now, when Mal gave them the starting job after having them serve their apprenticeship off the bench, it wasn't like they took to the arena like a duck takes to water - they were struggling like any other player on debut.

For mine, the utility position just makes managing the bench more complicated, forcing silly changes and giving mediocre players like Kurt Gidley a prolonged spot in the team. Unless you're a Craig Wing, Shaun Berrigan or James Segeyaro sort of player - I really don't want you sitting on my bench.

Thinking on it, really glad Hunt's debut wasn't at that Suncorp game. Probably would have received a knock against him he didn't deserve as people try and make changes for the sake of changes.

 

[Morkel]

That's an interesting point you make Morkel. I hadn't thought of the experience factor but I think there's a reason behind it.

At this level, I largely think it's hogwash.

Especially in a competition like this that allows you to blood talent against the weaker nation. That's the perfect game to see how the players go outside of a structure that caters to them.

As for why I think it's hogwash - look at the players you brought up - DCE & Cronk. Both of them are two of the best halves in the competition and were already in that position even before they became regulars in the rep arena. Now, when Mal gave them the starting job after having them serve their apprenticeship off the bench, it wasn't like they took to the arena like a duck takes to water - they were struggling like any other player on debut.

For mine, the utility position just makes managing the bench more complicated, forcing silly changes and giving mediocre players like Kurt Gidley a prolonged spot in the team. Unless you're a Craig Wing, Shaun Berrigan or James Segeyaro sort of player - I really don't want you sitting on my bench.

Thinking on it, really glad Hunt's debut wasn't at that Suncorp game. Probably would have received a knock against him he didn't deserve as people try and make changes for the sake of changes.

I can see your point there. Though I would say that Cronk was fine when he was beside Thurston.

 

[Big Pete]

Cronk's 2012 Origin series was strange.

His opening game down in Melbourne was really scratchy and below expectations.

He was one of the better Maroons in Game II but his sin binning was also extremely costly.

Third game he obviously kicked the series deciding field goal where his body and soul came together yadda yadda yadda but if memory serves, it was the sole highlight of an otherwise solid game.

This series also came off him winning multiple grand finals & playing an entire international competition so it wasn't like he was some fresh meat rookie with a handful of games and a bucket load of promise.

I also think there's a potential flip side of it too. Despite being vehemently against his selection off the bench, DCE turned out to be a surprisingly handy addition when he came on for his brief spurts. Fast forward to this year though and I'd say he's struggled in every prolonged stint as a halfback. It may just be a case of him having one of those seasons but never the less it does raise questions about how much that experience lends itself to filling a full-time playmaking role.

 

[Alec]

IMO a good utility is someone, when there are no injuries, who you can put in the middle of the field and they can hold their own in defence. That's besides being able to cover a few other positions obviously. Berrigan did that pretty well.

If they can provide a spark out of dummy half, even better. Like Craig Wing, or Seggy if he's ever picked. Always been a fan of dummy half running late in the matches.

I agree with Pete that both Hunt and Farah are pretty poor utilities, as they'll be taking off our best player in Smith, or one of the halves just to accomodate them. They don't really cover anything else...or at least have proven to yet.

But considering the team is already shit, I'm all for Hunt being there even if he isn't starting.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Guerra is exactly the type of player I would warn against. He's made to look better than he is because the opposition are putting all their efforts in to handling JWH, SBW, etc. Or Inglis during Origin.

I have to disagree with you about Guerra. I like him. I think he'll end up being our new Ash Harrison.

 

[Alec]

Yeah, I rate him. He's not as good as Cordner or Papalii (despite his admitedly pretty horrible form this year), but he's definitely an Origin standard player.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Cordner is massively over rated IMO....

 

[Big Pete]

Cordner is massively over rated IMO....

I was a fan of his, particularly in 2012 and 13 when he was flying under the radar and was still relatively young but I thought he was a bit complacent this year and now I'm getting the vibe that he's just one of those players who can make a really good first impression but can't kick on from there.

I call it the Canberra Raider syndrome.

Not really sold on Guerra either. I thought his Origin series was overrated - very shallow and pedantic.

 

[Alec]

He'll need to have more than one poor season before he can be judged as overrated IMO, since he was really good in 2012 and 2013.

It's the exact same as Papalii, I reckon they both have huge talent.

 

[Broncoman]

Guerra was one of QLD's best players in a beaten team this year imo. Made a good impression and can definitely kick on and play more rep in the future.

 

[Big Pete]

A lot of it will come down to how the Roosters will go in 2015.

I don't think I've seen a least convincing minor premiership team since the Dragons in 2009. Still did well obviously but go into 2015 weaker and if they don't fix a couple of things, could sink out of the Top 4 or Top 8 altogether.

 

[Morkel]

Guerra was one of QLD's best players in a beaten team this year imo. Made a good impression and can definitely kick on and play more rep in the future.

He looked good because the defence held off him thinking the ball would go to Inglis. Stagg would have looked just as good.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Stagg .....pffft. Please

 

[Alec]

He's better than Thaiday.

 

[Mr Fourex]

He's better than Thaiday.

Wot??

Stagg better than Thaiday...??

 

[Alec]

Meant Guerra, lol.