Golden boot winners

[bazza]

It's a matter of quantity vs quality.

I could see an argument for Hunt having more 'good' games but not 'great' games especially on the big stage. In fact, I thought outside of his cameo appearances off the bench, Hunt tended to get exposed in the big games.

True! Its still promising signs that Hunt, in his first season as halfback was able to produce as good as he did pretty consistently without having much help from his five-eighth or fullback. Hunt will only get better. Plus the Kangaroos selection will probably make him that much more confident in his ability.

 

[Anonymous person]

does anyone actually think hunt is a better player than Johnson though?

Hunt had a stellar season, better than Johnsons, but Johnson is one of the most talented and dangerous players the NRL has ever seen. If he was playing at a team like the Roosters/Bulldogs/Storm/Souths he would be winning Dally Ms left right and center.

 

[Big Pete]

People can have their own interpretation but when somebody tells me that Ben Hunt was the best half in the competition even over a player like Shaun Johnson, it isn't something I can get behind.

Gun to my head and I had to choose between SJ & Hunt, right now, it's easily SJ.

 

[Ari Gold]

I don't think SJ was all that great in 2014. He was good but he never really had the moments at club level that he's capable of.

I think Hunt played better overall but SJ is the more talented player. There's no player in the game I would rather build a team around than SJ.

Not that I'm biased or anything.

 

[Kimlo]

Me too. If I was starting a new team SJ would be my number one target. Young, very good goal kicker, ridiculously talented, clean off field record, well spoken. He has the potential to be the best in the game if he works on his consistency.

Do I rate him above Hunt? Absolutely.

 

[Cult]

They have built a team around Johnson and how has that gone lately?

 

[Ari Gold]

Until Tomkins arrived the team wasn't really built around SJ. So basically they have had one year so far.

And frankly I don't care how it's gone lately. It's how it turns out that matters. Hopefully not as well as building around Milford and Hunt, but I wouldn't put money on either being the better choice.

 

[Big Pete]

I don't even think that Tomkins was recruited for the sake of SJ, rather he was recruited to add another dimension to the attack, period.

SJ maybe the best player, but the Warriors were never promoted as a one man team and have been utterly rudderless since Ivan left. If anything, SJ has played well in spite of the coaches and some of those amazing performances we've seen were basically all Johnson.

As far as overall halfback criteria is concerned, SJ displayed more than Hunt in 2014. Hunt was more consistent but then consistensy isn't everything otherwise there would have been years where Robson and Hornby were in the running.

SJ's competition really was between DCE & Cronk - and he schooled both on two occasions on the big stage.

Some will disagree and that's fine, but in my view, it isn't a knock on Hunt to say SJ is a better halfback in 2014.

Fingers crossed things are different next year.

 

[Ari Gold]

I think McFadden was very good for the Warriors, though more so defensively than offensively.

As for Tomkins, he works very well with SJ. They combine so well down the right hand side that if you literally were to build a team around SJ then Tomkins is someone you would highly consider.

You can't say that about any other Warrior recruit.

 

[Big Pete]

McFadden has basically been put in charge to clean up somebody elses mess.

We'll get a better idea of him as a coach in 2015, recruitment hasn't been the best since he's had to clear out a lot of dead wood but he's got some great young and up and coming players that he should really take advantage of.

 

[Cult]

The Warriors have basically been Shaun Johnson and the giant forwards for years. In 2014 Hunt was far better week in week out. Johnson didn't carry his very good all round team to the finals like Ben Hunt did. Johnsons bombs were the only consistent thing about his game. Johnson also showed up an injured DCE and a Cronk who had no forwards helping him out and I doubt his arm was fully healed. The only thing Johnson has over Hunt is that he's played ok for longer.

 

[Alec]

SJ is more talented than Hunt, and probably a much safer future option than Hunt too (seeing as Hunt still needs a fuckload of things to work on). But Hunt definitely had a better regular season IMO, even if all he did was blind side raids... they were still effective most of the time.

In terms of non-rep seasons for halves, I'd say both Hunt and Foran had better seasons than SJ, and Thuston was better than all of them.

 

[Big Pete]

The Warriors have basically been Shaun Johnson and the giant forwards for years.

So? If anything, it just highlights how poor their recruitment has been since there's been no real plan. And the key word there is giant, not good and even then, their best forward last year was Lillyman who in front row terms is tiny.

Johnson also showed up an injured DCE and a Cronk who had no forwards helping him out and I doubt his arm was fully healed.

That would only matter if we're talking about 2015, which we're not. If this was a mere splotch on an otherwise fine year for either men, I'd take your point but let's be honest here, both were noticeably down on form, DCE more so. Now the excuse that was run all year was that he was playing injured which is fine looking forward but as far as 2014 is concerned, it inhibited him to the point where I'd dare say that Kieran Foran & Brett Stewart were more valuable.

The only thing Johnson has over Hunt is that he's played ok for longer.

Oh stop it.

The only thing? Really?

So if we were to put them into a race, Hunt would win?

Of course not.

Put up a criteria of what a good half should be and SJ has Hunt covered in a lot of departments that I had already outlined - running game, passing game & kicking game.

All of which was on show in 2014.

Hunt was more consistent, but again, I'd argue that it's a matter of quantity vs quality and on his day, SJ was the better halfback in 2014.

 

[bazza]

So? If anything, it just highlights how poor their recruitment has been since there's been no real plan. And the key word there is giant, not good and even then, their best forward last year was Lillyman who in front row terms is tiny.



That would only matter if we're talking about 2015, which we're not. If this was a mere splotch on an otherwise fine year for either men, I'd take your point but let's be honest here, both were noticeably down on form, DCE more so. Now the excuse that was run all year was that he was playing injured which is fine looking forward but as far as 2014 is concerned, it inhibited him to the point where I'd dare say that Kieran Foran & Brett Stewart were more valuable.



Oh stop it.

The only thing? Really?

So if we were to put them into a race, Hunt would win?

Of course not.

Put up a criteria of what a good half should be and SJ has Hunt covered in a lot of departments that I had already outlined - running game, passing game & kicking game.

All of which was on show in 2014.

Hunt was more consistent, but again, I'd argue that it's a matter of quantity vs quality and on his day, SJ was the better halfback in 2014.

Johnson may be a better halfback overall, at the moment, but in regards to the 2014 season, Hunt had the better season.

Hunt did better than Johnson in every facet of halfback play besides goal kicking and therefore total points (purely because Parker is the regular goal kicker. Even then, Hunt wasn't far behind Johnson in that aspect either), as well as field goals.

Hunt had more try assists, more line break assists, more line breaks, more runs, more tackle busts, more kicks in play, more kick meters, more tries, and even more tackles.

That would probably indicate that Hunt had a better running game, a better passing game, and a better kicking game in 2014 compared to SJ.

The fact he struggled with a lot of things and has some flaws in his overall game, given its his first season at halfback, and still managed to have better numbers in almost every criteria that defines a halfback, makes his season better than Johnson, and therefore that much more remarkable.

Plus he was in contention to win the Dally M medal, and polled incredibly well and should of been halfback of the year as opposed to DCE. In comparison Johnson polled relatively poorly with only 10 votes. For comparison, Peter Wallace played two-thirds of the games SJ did and managed 9 votes...

In my opinion, Hunt was the better halfback in 2014 when compared to Johnson.

 

[Big Pete]

bazza, thank you for making another point I have about the game.

Numbers lie.

Especially when it comes to halfbacks.

Let me elaborate on that a little, if you go back and check a lot of those stats circa 2006-08, you'll see Brett Finch leading in a lot of those categories. Did anyone rate Finch over Cronk? Hell no.

And that isn't just some anomaly either, there's been others in history with similar figures that really expose how useless that stat is in the big picture.

Now I'm already on the record as saying that Hunt had a more consistent season and it's a argument of quantity vs quality, as far as I'm concerned, the stats just re-enforce that point and when it comes down to SJ, it's all about the detail.

And as far as I'm concerned, I watched every Broncos game at least twice and I never saw Hunt produce the sort of performances that SJ was able to in the Four Nations.

I'll let you guys have the final word, I've clogged this thread up enough.

 

[Cult]

And as far as I'm concerned, I watched every Broncos game at least twice and I never saw Hunt produce the sort of performances that SJ was able to in the Four Nations.

I'll let you guys have the final word, I've clogged this thread up enough.

I watched almost every Warriors game twice and I also rarely saw the sort of performances that SJ was able to do in the Four Nations.

 

[bazza]

bazza, thank you for making another point I have about the game.

Numbers lie.

Especially when it comes to halfbacks.

Let me elaborate on that a little, if you go back and check a lot of those stats circa 2006-08, you'll see Brett Finch leading in a lot of those categories. Did anyone rate Finch over Cronk? Hell no.

And that isn't just some anomaly either, there's been others in history with similar figures that really expose how useless that stat is in the big picture.

Now I'm already on the record as saying that Hunt had a more consistent season and it's a argument of quantity vs quality, as far as I'm concerned, the stats just re-enforce that point and when it comes down to SJ, it's all about the detail.

And as far as I'm concerned, I watched every Broncos game at least twice and I never saw Hunt produce the sort of performances that SJ was able to in the Four Nations.

I'll let you guys have the final word, I've clogged this thread up enough.

Yes, stats don't tell the whole story, but you can't push aside stats such as try assists, line break assists, line breaks, tackle busts and tries, when that's what the halves job is - to create try's, create line breaks, make line breaks. The fact Johnson wasn't able to do much of that shows his inconsistency. There's no use being able to come up with miraculous plays once every 5 games, with average performances in between.

 

[bazza]

I watched almost every Warriors game twice and I also rarely saw the sort of performances that SJ was able to do in the Four Nations.

Exactly! Some of his performances were bog average, while some had glimpses of magic here and there.