I hate the media!

[mrslong]

I realise Hammo posted a couple of pages ago on this, but I think he really hit the nail on the head for me in regards to what has annoyed me the most throughout this whole debarcle. I find it offensive that the media is inferring that I, as a woman, need someone to take responsibility for me and that I'm also incapable of making a decision in regards to my body. They've basically said that the men in that room should have been responsible for her. Seriously? Even if she consented to it, which seems to be the case? And the fact that Tracey Grimshaw asked Johns if he would have still gone ahead with it if he'd known she was 19 to which he said no. As Hammo said, is a 19 year old not a woman capable of making her own decisions?

I understand that there are serious repercussions these days for any footballer who does anything 'wrong' (whatever that may even mean now). But are we seriously getting to a point where a guy in the spotlight can't have sex with anyone other than a serious girlfriend for fear of what might be printed the next day?

If a woman goes into a toilet with a bloke, famous or not, I'm not sure if she should be the authority on what is degrading. I'm also not sure where along the line men automatically had to assume responsibility for a woman in a sexual encounter. If you're old enough to be out on the pull and dragging guys into a toilet or taking a couple of them back to your room, you're old enough to make your own decisions and take responsibility for your actions. Woman are just as capable of being the instigator in these situations, so why all the blame on the guy? Obviously my view changes on this depending on the circumstances ie. if anything occurs without the girls consent, but I'm not specifically talking about the incidents we've heard of recently, I'm just using some of the circumstances as an example. It just seems that the media has decided that the guy needs to be responsible, the woman is a victim should anything go wrong (even though no one may be to blame) and that a young woman can't make an informed decision for herself. Ridiculous.

That is true up to a point, however, when a female (of any age to be honest) is up against several men the balance of power is slanted. That is the point Tracy Grimshaw was trying to make.

Of course any intelligent woman would not let her self end up in that precarious position in the first place, but the same should go for the man. He should equally not let himself end up in a similar position. Blokes like Kimmorely and Presto have come out and said they knew something dodgy was going on and stayed away, this should have been the response for all the men. They should own their poor decision exactly the same way the woman needs to own her decision.

 

[tryhard]

Maybe they should have stopped it and not walked away. Didn't they feel uneasy knowing what was happening? Morals are not much better of those who walk away IMO.

 

[broncosil]

Beats players stabbing her in the back(side) I guess...

[icon_lol1.

But seriously, I doubt anyone will be touching her now. She will be left high and dry.

That article was just pure gossip

 

[ddd]

Beats players stabbing her in the back(side) I guess...

[icon_lol1.

But seriously, I doubt anyone will be touching her now. She will be left high and dry.

That article was just pure gossip

You're right, with this article out, she just another filthy journo - so with any luck the boys will steer clear for fear of being next weeks blog topic - for example "Scuba Steve"?? -

Was that in too poor taste??

 

[bronco_babe77]

I realise Hammo posted a couple of pages ago on this, but I think he really hit the nail on the head for me in regards to what has annoyed me the most throughout this whole debarcle. I find it offensive that the media is inferring that I, as a woman, need someone to take responsibility for me and that I'm also incapable of making a decision in regards to my body. They've basically said that the men in that room should have been responsible for her. Seriously? Even if she consented to it, which seems to be the case? And the fact that Tracey Grimshaw asked Johns if he would have still gone ahead with it if he'd known she was 19 to which he said no. As Hammo said, is a 19 year old not a woman capable of making her own decisions?

I understand that there are serious repercussions these days for any footballer who does anything 'wrong' (whatever that may even mean now). But are we seriously getting to a point where a guy in the spotlight can't have sex with anyone other than a serious girlfriend for fear of what might be printed the next day?

If a woman goes into a toilet with a bloke, famous or not, I'm not sure if she should be the authority on what is degrading. I'm also not sure where along the line men automatically had to assume responsibility for a woman in a sexual encounter. If you're old enough to be out on the pull and dragging guys into a toilet or taking a couple of them back to your room, you're old enough to make your own decisions and take responsibility for your actions. Woman are just as capable of being the instigator in these situations, so why all the blame on the guy? Obviously my view changes on this depending on the circumstances ie. if anything occurs without the girls consent, but I'm not specifically talking about the incidents we've heard of recently, I'm just using some of the circumstances as an example. It just seems that the media has decided that the guy needs to be responsible, the woman is a victim should anything go wrong (even though no one may be to blame) and that a young woman can't make an informed decision for herself. Ridiculous.

+1

Well said Emma [eusa_clap.gi .

 

[Coxy]

Not sure what happened to my post...I assume I never actually posted it. LOLZ.

But I was agreeing with rnabokov about informed consent.

Bear in mind some of these girls are starstruck. They see this hot footballer they admire and want to **** him. OK, it's not the most moral thing she can do, but as far as I'm concerned that's an informed consensual decision. Footballer accepts. Again, informed consensual decision.

Where it gets blurred is when/if they're having their one-on-one fun and then his mates want a piece of the action.

Faced with that situation right there, how easy is it to make an informed decision? Bear in mind the girl, if she's mid-screw, is naked, in a very compromising position, and quite vulnerable. Stupid or not, she might also think if she says no then the guy she wanted might not want her anymore, not like her etc.

That scenario is where I think the line gets blurred, and can lead to a lot of feelings of guilt, disgust, anger, betrayal afterwards.

I'm not speaking of specific cases here, just in general.

If you consent to a one-on-one one night stand, you know what you're consenting to. It's when that situation - the rules of engagement so to speak - change that perhaps for younger, more naive, less assertive women it can then be less than informed consent. More like "I suppose so". I won't say coercion...but close to it.

SO, what am I saying? I think it's simple. Footballers - and men in general, but footballers only because they have more to lose by doing it wrong - need to just respect the girls they pick up.

I know a lot of people jump to the conclusion here that if a girl wants to have sex with a footballer she meets at a club then she's a slut, but she's no more a slut than the footballer that immediately says "yeah, let's go baby".

The "anonymous senior player" the SMH spoke to even said it, if you treat them nice and pay their cab ride home afterwards, there's no problem. But if you try and get her into a group thing she wasn't expecting, or if you treat her like a piece of meat (eg Laffranchi's charming alleged wake up greeting of "thanks for the orgasm bitch") then you're going to risk them getting the idea they were wronged and they may make a complaint - either to police or the media.

Either way is bad news for the player. They have so much more to lose.

So really, the way to handle these situations is, in priority:
1. Say no
2. Go for it, but:
- leave it at one-on-one or whatever the original configuration was
- don't invite others in on the action, even if she says she's up for it
- treat her nice and ensure she gets home safely afterwards

I reckon if they did that, 99% of these cases would never see the light of day.

 

[Emma]

That is true up to a point, however, when a female (of any age to be honest) is up against several men the balance of power is slanted. That is the point Tracy Grimshaw was trying to make.

Of course any intelligent woman would not let her self end up in that precarious position in the first place, but the same should go for the man. He should equally not let himself end up in a similar position. Blokes like Kimmorely and Presto have come out and said they knew something dodgy was going on and stayed away, this should have been the response for all the men. They should own their poor decision exactly the same way the woman needs to own her decision.

What if that woman wanted to put herself in that situation? Surely the men involved don't need to take the blame? I'm not saying that's what I think happened in this particular instance, but the fact is, whether we like it or not, whether we think it's right or wrong, that some women do like group sex, just as some men do. If a woman wants to make that decision, it's hers to make and no one else should be responsible for it. It irritates me that someone like Tracey Grimshaw has implied that a woman in that situation has no control whatsoever, couldn't possibly have made that decision for herself and needs someone else to be responsible for her. That certainly wouldn't always be the case.

 

[mrslong]

That is true up to a point, however, when a female (of any age to be honest) is up against several men the balance of power is slanted. That is the point Tracy Grimshaw was trying to make.

Of course any intelligent woman would not let her self end up in that precarious position in the first place, but the same should go for the man. He should equally not let himself end up in a similar position. Blokes like Kimmorely and Presto have come out and said they knew something dodgy was going on and stayed away, this should have been the response for all the men. They should own their poor decision exactly the same way the woman needs to own her decision.

What if that woman wanted to put herself in that situation? Surely the men involved don't need to take the blame? I'm not saying that's what I think happened in this particular instance, but the fact is, whether we like it or not, whether we think it's right or wrong, that some women do like group sex, just as some men do. If a woman wants to make that decision, it's hers to make and no one else should be responsible for it. It irritates me that someone like Tracey Grimshaw has implied that a woman in that situation has no control whatsoever, couldn't possibly have made that decision for herself and needs someone else to be responsible for her. That certainly wouldn't always be the case.

I agree, but the man must also take responsibility for putting himself in a position where a woman might be upset with him after. Whether at the time it was consensual or not. Basically, if you're gonna go in for some adventurous sex with strangers you should be prepared for all the consequences, whoever you are. Male or Female. Straight or Homosexual.

Everyone talks about the physical consequences of sexual liaisons with strangers such as STD's and unwanted pregnancy, but the emotional consequences (particularly for women) are just as real.

The responsibility needs to be split 50/50 if it is a consensual decision.

 

[mjc]

Has everyone seen Charmayne Pavali's brilliant article in the Telegraph today?

What a mole.

 

[Nashy]

It's posted up the top of this page.

 

[ddd]

That is true up to a point, however, when a female (of any age to be honest) is up against several men the balance of power is slanted. That is the point Tracy Grimshaw was trying to make.

Of course any intelligent woman would not let her self end up in that precarious position in the first place, but the same should go for the man. He should equally not let himself end up in a similar position. Blokes like Kimmorely and Presto have come out and said they knew something dodgy was going on and stayed away, this should have been the response for all the men. They should own their poor decision exactly the same way the woman needs to own her decision.

What if that woman wanted to put herself in that situation? Surely the men involved don't need to take the blame? I'm not saying that's what I think happened in this particular instance, but the fact is, whether we like it or not, whether we think it's right or wrong, that some women do like group sex, just as some men do. If a woman wants to make that decision, it's hers to make and no one else should be responsible for it. It irritates me that someone like Tracey Grimshaw has implied that a woman in that situation has no control whatsoever, couldn't possibly have made that decision for herself and needs someone else to be responsible for her. That certainly wouldn't always be the case.

I agree, but the man must also take responsibility for putting himself in a position where a woman might be upset with him after. Whether at the time it was consensual or not. Basically, if you're gonna go in for some adventurous sex with strangers you should be prepared for all the consequences, whoever you are. Male or Female. Straight or Homosexual.

Everyone talks about the physical consequences of sexual liaisons with strangers such as STD's and unwanted pregnancy, but the emotional consequences (particularly for women) are just as real.

The responsibility needs to be split 50/50 if it is a consensual decision.

You know I think most of the footy players would have agreed with your post, "hey, they were up for it", whats the drama?, but what has come out of all of this is that it seems that the public expects more of the players. They are pillars of the community, inspirations for their children, and probably most importantly, people who aren't gonna have sex with your daughter/ girlfriend if she happens to be out in the city, and certainly not people who are gonna invite their lock, prop and hooker mates to join in.

That's whats come out of all this, the public have high expectations of these young men, higher then that imposed on everyday people, but I guess that's something that they feel ought gets tacked on to being a well paid, high profile individual.

This isn't a personal view, but what I think to be a reasonable assessment of the current state of things

 

[Coxy]

That's whats come out of all this, the public have high expectations of these young men, higher then that imposed on everyday people, but I guess that's something that they feel ought gets tacked on to being a well paid, high profile individual.

This isn't a personal view, but what I think to be a reasonable assessment of the current state of things

Bingo! Many have said it's unrealistic to expect, but too bad, that's what people expect.

And now that's part of the cost of being a footballer.

 

[mjc]

Charmayne is disgusting anyway. She looks like a witch. She is overweight. She is ugly. Basically she is a turd that is desperately trying to polish herself, but we all know the old saying "you can't polish a turd".

No wonder Thurston won't comment on her - it would be highly embarrassing to be linked with that thing in public.

 

[gUt]

So it's the price of being a footballer. Therefore:

Be an ordinary bloke. You will 99.99% never be in a position where women will be throwing themselves at you for casual sex within 15 mins of entering a room, but if you DO get into some kinky shit, it's no one's business, or;

Be a footballer. You will be offered casual sex by beautiful women every time you sneeze, but you have to refuse because "society" doesn't approve, or;

Be a rockstar/film star, do what you want (short of Gary Glitter) and no one will care, in fact it will actually add to your legend and standing in the same society that tells footy players they have to keep it in their pants.

 

[schmix]

but we all know the old saying "you can't polish a turd".

Mythbusters totally busted that myth. They polished a turd up real nice.

 

[mjc]

There's hope for Charmayne yet then...

 

[schmix]

Yep, though the lion poop gave a far better result than the giraffe poop. Maybe Charmyne is giraffe poop.

 

[ddd]

So it's the price of being a footballer. Therefore:

Be an ordinary bloke. You will 99.99% never be in a position where women will be throwing themselves at you for casual sex within 15 mins of entering a room, but if you DO get into some kinky shit, it's no one's business, or;

Be a footballer. You will be offered casual sex by beautiful women every time you sneeze, but you have to refuse because "society" doesn't approve, or;

Be a rockstar/film star, do what you want (short of Gary Glitter) and no one will care, in fact it will actually add to your legend and standing in the same society that tells footy players they have to keep it in their pants.

Since when was society fair??

Plus that we have no movie and big time rock stars in Brissie/ Aus means these are the only celebs about so tall poppy syndrome has to be fixated on someone