Is Darren Lockyer the greatest player of all time?

[Porthoz]

im not sure that you actually know what charisma is if you think that it was Lockyers charisma that led us to the 2006 premiership [icon_lol1.

You know what they say about people that laugh about their own "smart arse" remarks...

No, it wasn't only Locky's charisma, there were plenty of factors. Locky's charisma, or in other words, the way people follow his lead (see below), definitely contributed to it, like Webcke's impending retirement also did...

cha·ris·ma? ?/k??r?zm?/ [kuh-riz-muh]
–noun, plural -ma·ta ?/-m?t?/ [-muh-tuh]

1. Theology . a divinely conferred gift or power.
2. a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
3. the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.

Although Gould did call Locky the football god once (Parra game at Suncorp), I don't think he's actually divine, but I'll let you take the pick.

Make of this what you will, I already have a stubborn know it all teenager at home to deal with, but unlike you... I have to put up with him, given he's my son.

 

[Charmamba]

im not sure that you actually know what charisma is if you think that it was Lockyers charisma that led us to the 2006 premiership [icon_lol1.

You know what they say about people that laugh about their own "smart arse" remarks...

No, it wasn't only Locky's charisma, there were plenty of factors. Locky's charisma, or in other words, the way people follow his lead (see below), definitely contributed to it, like Webcke's impending retirement also did...

cha·ris·ma? ?/k??r?zm?/ [kuh-riz-muh]
–noun, plural -ma·ta ?/-m?t?/ [-muh-tuh]

1. Theology . a divinely conferred gift or power.
2. a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
3. the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.

Although Gould did call Locky the football god once (Parra game at Suncorp), I don't think he's actually divine, but I'll let you take the pick.

Make of this what you will, I already have a stubborn know it all teenager at home to deal with, but unlike you... I have to put up with him, given he's my son.

Now go in your sons room and suss out his history... You might find that he is AP [icon_razz1

 

[Porthoz]

Now go in your sons room and suss out his history... You might find that he is AP [icon_razz1

:shock: [icon_shady

Just kill me now, will ya... [icon_lol1.

 

[Anonymous person]

it doesnt change the fact that youre using the word charisma in a place that it has absolutely no relation to anything.

charisma is something you use to charm people, to win them over - not to motivate them or make them play better lol. a leader can be charismatic, but from the hundreds of dry, blunt, straight to the point interviews ive seen with Lockyer, charisma is definitely not his strong point.

anyways, this is way off point.

the only players of the generation that can be compared to Lockyer are, IMO, Brad Fittler, Andrew Johns, Alan Langer and Ricky Stuart. and lockyer takes the cake.

 

[Nashy]

This isn't a debate on the words use to voice their reasons as to why they think Darren Lockyer is one of the greatest players the game has seen.

AP. You know better. Stop arguing about nothing.

 

[langer77]

It's hard to say who's the best the best half back langer
The best 5/8 Lockyer Or Daley all good players it's a close call

E.T is up there in centers and Steve Rodgers
List goes on for league legends

 

[Mister Wright]

I voted Langer.

 

[Big Pete]

I made a mistake and voted Lewis. I was brought up in a house where I was lead to believe he was the best and my parents could recite his best moments (mostly for Queensland, Australia and the Panasonic Cup team - mum was a Magpies fan and dad thought the BRL was bush league and didn't care). Given I've only seen a few old tapes of him, it was a silly decision to make.

At their best, I preferred Joey as a player. He had more variation, could perform anywhere on the field (where as Locky always loved the fringes) and was a bigger physical preference. Lockyer was a better athlete and could read the attack better but I'd say Joey covers him on the other areas.

With that said, I've seen basically every Lockyer game from 2000 onwards where as I've only seen Joey in rep. games and the odd Newcastle game. I've seen Lockyer at his best and worse where as I mostly caught Joey at his best.

On the other hand I've been reading through my collection of Rugby League Yearbooks and Alfie sounded awesome in 1995-96. Basically every match report has been Alfie either dominating a team or saving the Broncos bacon with a match winning play. Webcke also seems to rate Alfie higher.

 

[rnabokov]

Hang on ... this thread is about the greatest player of all time. Have I missed something, but what I've read so far focuses on the last what, 30 years, and in Australia?

 

[Big Pete]

The poll is on the Modern Greats.

 

[Coxy]

Very hard for most of us to judge anything beyond 30 years in Australia. And doubt any of us could explain how good Dally Messenger was....

 

[ningnangnong]

Very hard for most of us to judge anything beyond 30 years in Australia. And doubt any of us could explain how good Dally Messenger was....

Yep, and then there's the whole issue of comparing players from different eras.

 

[Coxy]

Very hard for most of us to judge anything beyond 30 years in Australia. And doubt any of us could explain how good Dally Messenger was....

Yep, and then there's the whole issue of comparing players from different eras.

Exactly. I look at footage on the Sunday Roast from the 80s and can't believe how slow it looks, how close the defence is etc. I reckon it took more skill and tactics to make breaks because you rarely got a roll on like you do these days, but then players of that era would have a heart attack after 10 minutes in the modern game with how fast it goes.

All you can really do is compare achievements and longevity, and Lockyer's are up there with any player of any era.

 

[Dexter]

Not to mention the cheap shots. Every tackle back in the 80s there was something going on. If a team was getting beaten by skill you always had the biff to even things up. We actually had calls for an all in and practised certain things like who packed where in the scrum when it was on.

Completely different game in so many ways to today.

 

[Coxy]

Not to mention the cheap shots. Every tackle back in the 80s there was something going on. If a team was getting beaten by skill you always had the biff to even things up. We actually had calls for an all in and practised certain things like who packed where in the scrum when it was on.

Completely different game in so many ways to today.

Yep, very good point.

Throw in the semi-professional vs professional side of things. Players with full time medical care, nutrition, psychology, coaching and training vs the old days where players would work full time, train on Tuesday and Thursday night, play the game on the weekend and show up for work again Monday morning.

 

[dukey]

Great editorial in the Daily Telegraph today.
[url="http://www.dailytelegraph.co...w.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... public_rss[/url]

 

[Flutterby]

I'm guessing you've come to that decision based purely on ability on the field.

Yes because the question is the greatest player PERIOD - which IMO is defined as pure on-field during the game ability. The question isn't about which player was able to sustain the highest standard over the longest period of time; who was a better player/person; which player had the most influence over their team-mates enabling them to rise to a better standard etc etc etc all the other things other people have used in their considerations. But I say again - this is how I choose to understand, define and answer the question, other people see the question slightly differently so I accept their choice as just as valid.

But ultimately, as I said originally I still consider Lewis the greatest I have seen and I am fortunate to be old enough to remember him in his prime (just [icon_razz1 ) - I remember seeing him carve up for Wynnum as well as the early days of Origin (well not the first 2 origins, but from 1982 onwards) and his Test matches. I feel pretty lucky to have been able to see all of Lewis, Langer, Lockyer and Johns.

 

[Flutterby]

True, no doubt we're all biased here.

Not all of us [icon_razz1