Kotoni & Tesi

[Wolfie]

We made a grand final 7 years ago mate, during Wayne's last tenure here we were a strong team throughout, only since we moved him on have we been in the shit.

Clubs like the Tigers haven't had a team every worthy of making the 8 for what seems like an age, we're in a 3-4 year run and we're here whinging expecting wholesale changes, dropping rep calibre players to QLD Cup, coach on notice.. etc

Kotoni is one good game away from proving everyone wrong and I wouldn't back against him, he's just that kind of a player.

7 years ago. An eternity in football terms. Then you go back to 2006 before that.

I couldnt care less really what the Tigers are doing. Staggs has been very, very poor ( not the only one either ), not good value for money so far, lazy and disinterested. If that was anyone else you would want them dropped. When your team has been easybeats for 3 straight years without making wholesale changes then its something you probably need to look at. I'm still not getting how you think dropping a couple of underperforming players is making wholesale changes. Until this week, i dont think i would have tbf, but we have way too many playing and not playing well. Thats why you have a squad. To put pressure on underperformance.

And lets face it, one good game from Kotoni will prove nothing whatsoever. He needs to perform well week in week out. He is miles behind the best centers in the game and just not worth the money he is being paid.

 

[BroncosFever]

7 years ago. An eternity in football terms. Then you go back to 2006 before that.

I couldnt care less really what the Tigers are doing. Staggs has been very, very poor ( not the only one either ), not good value for money so far, lazy and disinterested. If that was anyone else you would want them dropped. When your team has been easybeats for 3 straight years without making wholesale changes then its something you probably need to look at. I'm still not getting how you think dropping a couple of underperforming players is making wholesale changes. Until this week, i dont think i would have tbf, but we have way too many playing and not playing well. Thats why you have a squad. To put pressure on underperformance.

And lets face it, one good game from Kotoni will prove nothing whatsoever. He needs to perform well week in week out. He is miles behind the best centers in the game and just not worth the money he is being paid.

Without making wholesale changes?

How many players did we ship off to other clubs where we had to pay (and might even still be paying) for them to be there? Then there were the changes in the football department..

We're in a mess with our cap because we paid lazy players too much money and then sent them to another club while still paying for them to be there, I do not see Kotoni as one of those kind of players, I see him as a guy coming back from a bad injury and it taking time for him to get back to where he was. People forget this is a guy who has only played 50 or so NRL games. It will take him some time and if confidence is the issue, sending him to QLD Cup would be doing him no favours. Kevvie isn't stupid, give him at least some credit, he would be able to identify a player who wasn't having a go.

We're at the stage where we need to develop a few players because unfortunately the option isn't on the table with where we are in our cap to go around spending a million dollars a season on fullbacks and hookers and it's going to suck for a while yet because incredibly, it takes time for players to develop.

 

[Wolfie]

Without making wholesale changes?

How many players did we ship off to other clubs where we had to pay (and might even still be paying) for them to be there? Then there were the changes in the football department..

We're in a mess with our cap because we paid lazy players too much money and then sent them to another club while still paying for them to be there, I do not see Kotoni as one of those kind of players, I see him as a guy coming back from a bad injury and it taking time for him to get back to where he was. People forget this is a guy who has only played 50 or so NRL games. It will take him some time and if confidence is the issue, sending him to QLD Cup would be doing him no favours. Kevvie isn't stupid, give him at least some credit, he would be able to identify a player who wasn't having a go.

We're at the stage where we need to develop a few players because unfortunately the option isn't on the table with where we are in our cap to go around spending a million dollars a season on fullbacks and hookers and it's going to suck for a while yet because incredibly, it takes time for players to develop.

We havent really. What we have done is not build combinations. Kevvie chopped and changed a fair bit in certain positions, but we have never really dropped 4 or 5 players at a time. ANd we didnt ship them off all at once. We moved them on bit by bit.

Staggs has a huge ego. He wanted more money, he wanted to leave and nobody decent wanted him. His plan to do a Fifita backfired. I'm not the only one on here who knows thats what happened. I can remember at time that didnt get off the bench for us in his early days, they sent him back to Redcliffe to play on the Saturday and he said he didnt want to play and didnt. He got the riot act read to him by Wayne. Thats just one thing out of quite a few things that didnt make the press that he's done. He does come across as a little entitled.

How many games are you going to keep making excuses for him though. If he plays shit against the Rorters, then against the Panthers, do you keep him in? How many players get away with not performing for 4 games in a row, let alone 6 and keep their place? Sending him back to Qcup to basically get himself fit could be the best thing we could do for him because at the moment, he is flat out getting to 50 mins before he is gassed.

 

[Midean]

We havent really. What we have done is not build combinations. Kevvie chopped and changed a fair bit in certain positions, but we have never really dropped 4 or 5 players at a time.

Staggs has a huge ego. He wanted more money, he wanted to leave and nobody decent wanted him. His plan to do a Fifita backfired. I'm not the only one on here who knows thats what happened. I can remember at time that didnt get off the bench for us in his early days, they sent him back to Redcliffe to play on the Saturday and he said he didnt want to play and didnt. He got the riot act read to him by Wayne. Thats just one thing out of quite a few things that didnt make the press that he's done. He does come across as a little entitled.

How many games are you going to keep making excuses for him though. If he plays shit against the Rorters, then against the Panthers, do you keep him in? How many players get away with not performing for 4 games in a row, let alone 6 and keep their place? Sending him back to Qcup to basically get himself fit could be the best thing we could do for him because at the moment, he is flat out getting to 50 mins before he is gassed.

If this is all true, why are we paying him so much?

He is on what? 600 - 700k?
If no one else wanted him, and his attitude stinks and he has a history of being petulant etc, i dont get why we didnt offer him peanuts to stick around?

 

[BroncosFever]

How many games are you going to keep making excuses for him though. If he plays shit against the Rorters, then against the Panthers, do you keep him in? How many players get away with not performing for 4 games in a row, let alone 6 and keep their place? Sending him back to Qcup to basically get himself fit could be the best thing we could do for him because at the moment, he is flat out getting to 50 mins before he is gassed.

I don't see it as an excuse though, he's got legitimate reasons to explain why he isn't making 15 carries a game.

You talk about the Roosters and Penrith, I'll give you the hot tip right now, he won't be the only one who gets shown up against those teams.

 

[BroncosFever]

If this is all true, why are we paying him so much?

He is on what? 600 - 700k?
If no one else wanted him, and his attitude stinks and he has a history of being petulant etc, i dont get why we didnt offer him peanuts to stick around?

Parramatta were absolutely in the race, I think he even said it himself.

 

[Wolfie]

If this is all true, why are we paying him so much?

He is on what? 600 - 700k?
If no one else wanted him, and his attitude stinks and he has a history of being petulant etc, i dont get why we didnt offer him peanuts to stick around?

I'm not going to say his attitude stinks as such. In some ways i dont think he is quite as petulant as he was but he does think he is gods gift. He had clubs after him, mainly Newcastle and the Eels most prominantly but Eels pulled out and i dont reckon he wanted Newcastle. We just didnt want to lose another potential star i dont believe.

 

[Wolfie]

Parramatta were absolutely in the race, I think he even said it himself.

They pulled out of the deal bascially because he was messing them around and wanted a bidding war he didnt get.

 

[winslow_wong]

We made a grand final 7 years ago mate, during Wayne's last tenure here we were a strong team throughout, only since we moved him on have we been in the shit.

Clubs like the Tigers haven't had a team every worthy of making the 8 for what seems like an age, we're in a 3-4 year run and we're here whinging expecting wholesale changes, dropping rep calibre players to QLD Cup, coach on notice.. etc

Kotoni is one good game away from proving everyone wrong and I wouldn't back against him, he's just that kind of a player.

Sigh 2015.. that side was light years ahead of our current squad. We had actual rep level performers at their peak. we had prime Milford and Ben hunt. Prime jack reed. Add a bit of Bennett’s old man potion and there is your grand final team.

 

[Wolfie]

I don't see it as an excuse though, he's got legitimate reasons to explain why he isn't making 15 carries a game.

You talk about the Roosters and Penrith, I'll give you the hot tip right now, he won't be the only one who gets shown up against those teams.

A player i'm probably a bit biased toward, Tom Opacic was making carries and taking hit ups with 2 busted shoulders and a stuffed ankle when he was here. Being injured isnt an excuse for lack of effort. It can be a reason why you arent performing, its no reason for not getting involved.

Tbh, its his demenour and effort i have an issue with probably more than his form. He's played poorly, but its those other aspects that are more worrying.

 

[Skathen]

The couple of games Katoni played last season he was frankly, inspiring a lot of confidence. It's like a different human is out there this season. He's frustrated, his eyes are dark like he's sick/hungover. Something has gone drastically wrong with that kid in the last 6 months.

What's most concerning to me is that it's not just poor decisions, not just fitness (he certainly isn't) - but he has coordination issues. He's throwing crazy attempts at passes, dropping balls I'd have to say on every second carry almost and is not even looking to help the team out.

Be a good start if they drug tested him every week at training because, big money, sudden massive change, first thing that jumps out at me for sure.

 

[Johnny92]

A player i'm probably a bit biased toward, Tom Opacic was making carries and taking hit ups with 2 busted shoulders and a stuffed ankle when he was here. Being injured isnt an excuse for lack of effort. It can be a reason why you arent performing, its no reason for not getting involved.

Tbh, its his demenour and effort i have an issue with probably more than his form. He's played poorly, but its those other aspects that are more worrying.

Carrigan has come off the same injury and look at his efforts if anything he is better than before.
Staggs has already come back from the ACL last season and was great in the games he played prior to getting injured again which in that case was only a minor injury.

 

[Midean]

The couple of games Katoni played last season he was frankly, inspiring a lot of confidence. It's like a different human is out there this season. He's frustrated, his eyes are dark like he's sick/hungover. Something has gone drastically wrong with that kid in the last 6 months.

What's most concerning to me is that it's not just poor decisions, not just fitness (he certainly isn't) - but he has coordination issues. He's throwing crazy attempts at passes, dropping balls I'd have to say on every second carry almost and is not even looking to help the team out.

Be a good start if they drug tested him every week at training because, big money, sudden massive change, first thing that jumps out at me for sure.

These were my initial thoughts as well.

 

[Wolfie]

The couple of games Katoni played last season he was frankly, inspiring a lot of confidence. It's like a different human is out there this season. He's frustrated, his eyes are dark like he's sick/hungover. Something has gone drastically wrong with that kid in the last 6 months.

What's most concerning to me is that it's not just poor decisions, not just fitness (he certainly isn't) - but he has coordination issues. He's throwing crazy attempts at passes, dropping balls I'd have to say on every second carry almost and is not even looking to help the team out.

Be a good start if they drug tested him every week at training because, big money, sudden massive change, first thing that jumps out at me for sure.

Could well be he is struggling with long covid or something, but he's no good to us if he isnt fit.

 

[Sproj]

Carrigan has come off the same injury and look at his efforts if anything he is better than before.
Staggs has already come back from the ACL last season and was great in the games he played prior to getting injured again which in that case was only a minor injury.

I'm not sure I agree. I am not a big stats man but I feel like Carrigan was a bit like Staggs, great first game back and progressively gone a bit backwards (not horrible by any means).

 

[Wolfie]

I'm not sure I agree. I am not a big stats man but I feel like Carrigan was a bit like Staggs, great first game back and progressively gone a bit backwards (not horrible by any means).

Thats the thing though, the work rate and effort is still there with Pat even though as a team we havent been as good week after week. Kotoni has just looked off since round 1.

 

[Johnny92]

I'm not sure I agree. I am not a big stats man but I feel like Carrigan was a bit like Staggs, great first game back and progressively gone a bit backwards (not horrible by any means).

I'm more meaning the effort by Pat, his first game was great but he did drop off abit in the next games but that could come down to form of the team aswell because of even Haas hasn't been as good as the first game. But against the Warriors those dumb offloads started creeping In and he was running more sideways on occasions.
Last year when Kotoni returned against the sharks I think it was from the ACL he played like a bloke that missed playing for 8-9 months or whatever it was, i think he even got abit frustrated when Kev took him off to rest him up if I remember correctly. This year he just looks like he'd be happy not playing.

 

[NSW stables]

I would be setting staggs small, achievable goals in the game. Take at minimum 12-14 hit ups, run hard, run your lines in attacking movements and just make your tackles.

These are goals that fitzgibbon has set for his back 5 and they are tearing it up.