Melbourne Storm and the great celery hat debate

[GCBRONCO]

GC - I'm not sure what 2000-2005 has to do with Bellamy coaching in 2008, when QLD were well and truly established as a champion team also full of champion players?

It's relevent because NSW had already established themselves the dominate side after the 2000 series, Queensland were the underdogs during that period yet Bennett managed to still win a series and draw another, NSW just as Queensland are now, couldn't achieve a series win under Bellamy, you point to a series where you think Bellamy were close to winning but really the only side since Queensland has peaked during the 7 series wins in a row that has looked convincing enough to win has been this series under Stuart, despite some here going great lengths to make Lockyers absence so huge, yet they still had Slater, Inglis, Cronk and Smiths and under Stuart this series they really pushed Queensland, the same ones regarded as being the "possible immortals" so you can't have it both ways.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Doesn't that in itself show how arbitrary rep football can be? If Vautin's successes as a rep coach aren't enough to cement his reputation, why would Bellamy's failings in the same role be enough reason to tear him down?

Well then why is it ok for AP to put the boot so much into Bennett over his failings in REP football at times(but at the same time avoid giving him credit for his successes), yet do everything he can to defend Bellamy's? Does this arbitrary rep football only count for Bellamy does it? So going by that line of thinking any rep football success or failure should not figure in evaluating a player or coaches career right?

 

[dukey]

Well then why is it ok for AP to put the boot so much into Bennett over his failings in REP football at times, yet do everything he can to defend Bellamy's?

It's not okay, and the reverse isn't either.

 

[GCBRONCO]

It's not okay, and the reverse isn't either.

out of interest dukey, if you took Wally Lewis's rep football career out of the picture and only his club level was considered, would you consider him an immortal?

 

[Jeba]

Not once have I been wrong.

 

[fredie]

melbourne storm club will always have an unfair advantage

 

[Big Pete]

AP - It's Big Pete, thanks.

Jeba was right. Just because your recollection skills are horrible (He only played 2 games in 07 at halfback by the by) doesn't mean Hunt wasn't selected at halfback the following year (2009) by Henjak and did indeed perform terribly.

Bellamy should have assumed more control like Bennett did. His failing to do so is his own responsibility.

 

[Anonymous person]

Jeba was right. Just because your recollection skills are horrible (He only played 2 games in 07 at halfback by the by) doesn't mean Hunt wasn't selected at halfback the following year (2009) by Henjak and did indeed perform terribly.

Big Peter - its Anonymous Person, thanks.

hunt played half first under bennett (2007), not henjak (2009). so no, jeba wasnt right. i was wrong about what year he played origin at half, but that doesnt change the fact that he played halfback in 07 first under bennett like i said. he played 2 matches, not 3-4. oh no ,i was off by 1-2 matches from a season 5 years ago, how terrible of me....

and anyway, not a single one of you bellamy haters has said anything about the fact that bellamy was a part time coach, being in control of the team for 3 weeks of the year for 3 years, and had very little say in who was selected. nor have you had anything to say about the fact that smith/thurston/slater were in the prime of their career then, yet in the tail end of their careers under stuart the full time coach who still didnt win in 2 years.

"Bellamy should have assumed more control like Bennett did. His failing to do so is his own responsibility."

maybe he should have, maybe he shouldnt have. there were big differences between when bennett came in and cleaned house and when bellamy came in.

Bennett came in on the back of the single worst performance in the history of origin, on the back of a whitewash, with a team full of old past their prime players. adrian lam was our haflback, ben ikin/julian oneill our five eighths. that says enough. it wasnt really risky dumping 3/4 of the team as they were absolutley horrible the year before. remember, origin was "dead" after 2000 according to many, so he had literally nothing to lose in 01.

bellamy came in on the back of a close series loss in 07 and a very close series loss in 06, so there was really nothing calling for a complete cleanout. they went close in 08 so again, no need for a cleanout. won game 3 of 2009 pretty convincingly, so then all the talk in the media was about NSW starting their dynasty in 2010. again, no need for a cleanout and in fact that wouldve been the last thing they would have thought about.

its like you guys are convincing yourselves that this QLD team is just mediocre and that NSW lost because they were poorly coached lol. FFS this is widely regarded now as the best team in the history of state of origin, and youre saying that a NSW coach isnt a good coach because his team didnt beat them lol. its like saying the American Dream Team at the Olympics only won because of poor coaching by their oppositions coach.

 

[Big Pete]

hunt played half first under bennett (2007), not henjak (2009). so no, jeba wasnt right. i was wrong about what year he played origin at half, but that doesnt change the fact that he played halfback in 07 first under bennett like i said. he played 2 matches, not 3-4. oh no ,i was off by 1-2 matches from a season 5 years ago, how terrible of me....

Either your recollection is as bad as I think it is or you're lying.

This is what you said.

the funny thing is that the next year after that failed experiment, Bennett selected Hunt at halfback for the Broncos where yet again he was horrible.

You never said anything about Bennett doing it first. In fact, the whole point you were making was based on Bennett making the selection in spite of Hunt's poor showing in Origin.

It's not a biggy, tis funny trying to argue it regardless.

and anyway, not a single one of you bellamy haters has said anything about the fact that bellamy was a part time coach, being in control of the team for 3 weeks of the year for 3 years, and had very little say in who was selected. nor have you had anything to say about the fact that smith/thurston/slater were in the prime of their career then, yet in the tail end of their careers under stuart the full time coach who still didnt win in 2 years.

You say this and then go onto quote me and a point I made of it being his responsibility to be more than a part-time coach.

I'm not going to address most of your points because it's filled with inaccuracies that suggests you really don't know what you're talking about. I'll just leave it with this, if the Maroons side was as unbeatable as you rate it, why didn't 'supercoach' Bellamy do all he could to beat it?

As it stands, Craig has one of the worst Origin coaching records of all time. It's a black mark that counts against him, just like the Storm's cheating.

 

[broncos4life]

All hail king bellemy

 

[Porthoz]

Okay, back on topic people, this is about the cheats, not Bellamy, Bennett or AP

 

[Kimlo]

Okay, back on topic people, this is about the cheats, not Bellamy, Bennett or AP

But Bellamy is a cheat, therefore it's on topic? :tongue_smilie:

 

[Porthoz]

But Bellamy is a cheat, therefore it's on topic? :tongue_smilie:

Yes, there's no denying that, but only as the coach of the Storm...

 

[Anonymous person]

You never said anything about Bennett doing it first. In fact, the whole point you were making was based on Bennett making the selection in spite of Hunt's poor showing in Origin.

It's not a biggy, tis funny trying to argue it regardless.

yeh i made the mistake of thinking he played a game in the halves in the origin in 2006, hence why "the next year" would be 2007, not 2009.

 

[Jeba]

So much for you watching every Origin game 5 times!!!!

 

[m1c]

This thread should go to the pool room :)

 

[Porthoz]

This thread should go to the pool room :)

Now that's just cruel... :scared:

 

[Anonymous person]

So much for you watching every Origin game 5 times!!!!

I've watched them far more than that. Doesn't mean I know every player who was chosen in every position in every match lol

I'm not going to address most of your points because it's filled with inaccuracies that suggests you really don't know what you're talking about.

Please point out these inaccuracies. I'd like to see them.

I think the reason you won't address them is because you've got nothing so you're just playing the "you don't know anything" card so you can feel that you escaped with your dignity.