NRL General Discussion Thread

[Culhwch]

I haven't seen all of the interviews, but when did Graham rip into the player suffering from mental health?

Davey, not the unnamed player.

Rothfield kicked off proceedings by detailing Davey’s mental health battle, but Graham wasn’t buying that as a ticket out.

“Can I interject there on the mental health issue, as a sufferer from depression and anxiety. I’ve been medicated for it for two years,” Graham said on NRL 360.

“I don’t expect any special treatment, I don’t expect a free pass and I’m not immune from criticism either and I don’t expect a pass for not living up to standards because I have those issues.”

Rothfield hit back and said when issues like this come about it’s all about finding players who are willing to step into the spotlight and address matters.

“What worried me about you Jimmy was, when we’re trying to find out the process of what forced a player to leave … we need to talk to people,” Rothfield said.

“And this guy spoke honestly and openly. What you did Jimmy, with respect, you belted him on radio yesterday. It was just a good old spray.

“Now what worries me about that is, we should be encouraging people to speak up in moments like this.

“The next kid who might have an issue at a club is going to think ‘s**t I’m not going to talk’.”

From: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/b...a/news-story/aaa6c0c0259b6a6bdeb18b2864b22c05

I don't often agree with Rothfield but I'm on his side for this one. Regardless of what position Graham holds with the club or who he knows or who he's talked to, he does not know Davey's experience, but still felt like he had the right to speak to his motivations - and then double-down by citing his own mental health issues to deflect criticism of what he said.

 

[JayPee]

I haven't seen all of the interviews, but when did Graham rip into the player suffering from mental health?

He didn't rip into anyone but Davey. On the player having to wrestle the guys as punishment for being late well then sorry too bad. You get punished for turning up to work late. Like Graham was saying you don't get special treatment. I doubt the Bulldogs even knew he had issues. If they did then maybe they might have a problem. So Buzz going off about that specific incident and making a massive deal about it isn't anything imo. I watch every show. Gould has made his mistakes but Buzz has a massive vendetta against him and it rings hollow when he is the one constantly bringing stuff up. No different to Anasta on the Tigers or Parker on the Broncos.

 

[JayPee]

Davey, not the unnamed player.

Rothfield kicked off proceedings by detailing Davey’s mental health battle, but Graham wasn’t buying that as a ticket out.

“Can I interject there on the mental health issue, as a sufferer from depression and anxiety. I’ve been medicated for it for two years,” Graham said on NRL 360.

“I don’t expect any special treatment, I don’t expect a free pass and I’m not immune from criticism either and I don’t expect a pass for not living up to standards because I have those issues.”

Rothfield hit back and said when issues like this come about it’s all about finding players who are willing to step into the spotlight and address matters.

“What worried me about you Jimmy was, when we’re trying to find out the process of what forced a player to leave … we need to talk to people,” Rothfield said.

“And this guy spoke honestly and openly. What you did Jimmy, with respect, you belted him on radio yesterday. It was just a good old spray.

“Now what worries me about that is, we should be encouraging people to speak up in moments like this.

“The next kid who might have an issue at a club is going to think ‘s**t I’m not going to talk’.”

From: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/b...a/news-story/aaa6c0c0259b6a6bdeb18b2864b22c05

I don't often agree with Rothfield but I'm on his side for this one. Regardless of what position Graham holds with the club or who he knows or who he's talked to, he does not know Davey's experience, but still felt like he had the right to speak to his motivations - and then double-down by citing his own mental health issues to deflect criticism of what he said.

Whoever wrote that article is wrong. They have stuffed up the context. I might be wrong but I don't think Davey has had any issues with mental health. Dont think Buzz was saying that either if you go back and watch the first exchange. He is referencing the kid that is on leave not Davey.

 

[Super Freak]

Davey, not the unnamed player.

Rothfield kicked off proceedings by detailing Davey’s mental health battle, but Graham wasn’t buying that as a ticket out.

“Can I interject there on the mental health issue, as a sufferer from depression and anxiety. I’ve been medicated for it for two years,” Graham said on NRL 360.

“I don’t expect any special treatment, I don’t expect a free pass and I’m not immune from criticism either and I don’t expect a pass for not living up to standards because I have those issues.”

Rothfield hit back and said when issues like this come about it’s all about finding players who are willing to step into the spotlight and address matters.

“What worried me about you Jimmy was, when we’re trying to find out the process of what forced a player to leave … we need to talk to people,” Rothfield said.

“And this guy spoke honestly and openly. What you did Jimmy, with respect, you belted him on radio yesterday. It was just a good old spray.

“Now what worries me about that is, we should be encouraging people to speak up in moments like this.

“The next kid who might have an issue at a club is going to think ‘s**t I’m not going to talk’.”

From: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/b...a/news-story/aaa6c0c0259b6a6bdeb18b2864b22c05

I don't often agree with Rothfield but I'm on his side for this one. Regardless of what position Graham holds with the club or who he knows or who he's talked to, he does not know Davey's experience, but still felt like he had the right to speak to his motivations - and then double-down by citing his own mental health issues to deflect criticism of what he said.

The player suffering from mental health wasn't Davey, it was the one that had to wrestle the players for being late.

Rothfield wasn't talking about Davey when it came to mental health and at no point did Graham rip into the player suffering from mental health.

 

[JayPee]

The player suffering from mental health wasn't Davey, it was the one that had to wrestle the players for being late.

Rothfield wasn't talking about Davey when it came to mental health and at no point did Graham rip into the player suffering from mental health.

Yep. This is what happens when you have a random journalist that doesn't fact check and just throws shit against a wall. Confusion.

 

[BooKhaki]

What annoys me is people openly rip and shred into people with mental health, until they top themselves. Then everything changes.

It doesn't matter to me that James Graham has a few issues of his own, it's like he was trying to vindicate himself so he could get on the attack by stating he suffers from depression and anxiety himself. It affects people differently. Personally I have BPD but I would never say "as a sufferer of BPD".. and then go on to stick it in to someone else who has BPD. I know it's different for me than it would be for someone else.

How did he rip into the bloke missing? Graham went at Davey.

Graham was spot on. Struggling with mental health doesn't excuse you from your job or the consequences of being late. If the bloke can't mentally handle what comes with football, he should find a career that supports those struggles.

 

[Culhwch]

Whoever wrote that article is wrong. They have stuffed up the context. I might be wrong but I don't think Davey has had any issues with mental health. Dont think Buzz was saying that either if you go back and watch the first exchange. He is referencing the kid that is on leave not Davey.

The player suffering from mental health wasn't Davey, it was the one that had to wrestle the players for being late.

Rothfield wasn't talking about Davey when it came to mental health and at no point did Graham rip into the player suffering from mental health.

I didn't see the clip itself and I wouldn't be surprised if News got the context a bit wrong. I'll see if I can find the clip and watch it to get my own perspective.

I assume the quotes from Graham regarding his own mental health are still accurate, and I know that Graham didn't rip into the player suffering mental health issues, only into Davey, and that doesn't change my thoughts on the matter. As I said, Graham can only speculate on why Davey left, but he has painted him in a terrible light in an extremely public forum, and it's been acknowledged in this thread he can not be considered an unbiased commentator on this. Really poor form from him.

 

[Culhwch]

Graham was spot on. Struggling with mental health doesn't excuse you from your job or the consequences of being late. If the bloke can't mentally handle what comes with football, he should find a career that supports those struggles.

If the consequences of being late is being humiliated in front of your co-workers and forced to wrestled a dozen of them who, from other accounts, were also uneasy with that punishment, then maybe there's something wrong with that workplace, rather than with the player.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Yep. This is what happens when you have a random journalist that doesn't fact check and just throws shit against a wall. Confusion.

Standard RL media behaviour by the sounds of it.......

 

[JayPee]

Standard RL media behaviour by the sounds of it.......

I just looked at who wrote the article. I have no idea who it is. Might not even be a RL writer.

 

[BooKhaki]

If the consequences of being late is being humiliated in front of your co-workers and forced to wrestled a dozen of them who, from other accounts, were also uneasy with that punishment, then maybe there's something wrong with that workplace, rather than with the player.

Why have so many other players come out saying it's a fair punishment?

Would it have been better for his mental health if they just sacked him?

 

[Culhwch]

Why have so many other players come out saying it's a fair punishment?

Would it have been better for his mental health if they just sacked him?

I haven't see that - source?

Edit to add - if it's a pattern of lateness, then yes, perhaps dismissal is an option, but it's not the first one, and group humiliation is definitely not the answer in my opinion.

 

[BooKhaki]

I haven't see that - source?

Edit to add - if it's a pattern of lateness, then yes, perhaps dismissal is an option, but it's not the first one, and group humiliation is definitely not the answer in my opinion.

Multiple podcasts, 360, radio where all former players have said it's a fine punishment.

How many successful football clubs have you run? Are there any coaches/players who have come out saying its wrong?

 

[Super Freak]

There's a very very long history of players at every club being punished for being late.

There have even been stories from former players of the rest of the team being punished for a player being late.

The Bulldogs player was late for a wrestling session, so his punishment was to wrestle the squad. It's not anything new and it's not something only being done by the Bulldogs either.

 

[LittleDavey]

My son's U11 coach made players arriving late to training do an extra lap of the oval or an extra 10 pushups.

Footy is a team sport. You're late to training without an excuse, you're letting the team down. Same as most jobs.

 

[Culhwch]

Multiple podcasts, 360, radio where all former players have said it's a fine punishment.

How many successful football clubs have you run? Are there any coaches/players who have come out saying its wrong?

How many successful football teams has Cameron Ciraldo coached? Let's not play that game, clearly none of us here have run a football team.

Look, I'm not painting myself as an expert. I'm not a former player, or coach, or administrator. But I'll tell you what I do have is empathy. Seems like a rare commodity these days. I also have the ability to recognise that times change, and that something that was accepted previously is not necessarily the best thing to employ now.

Coaching a football team is about man-management and team-building, and that revolves around discovering what it is your team responds to, what motivates them, what gets the best out of them. Sometimes successful management means changing your own style, rather than stubbornly holding on to the way you've always done things. I think that's what has made Kevvie successful - while I think he's still maintained the core of his coaching philosophy, he has been flexible and made changes that have improved the team.

I've already said in this thread it's too early to judge Ciraldo, but it's not looking good, and it could go very south from here.

 

[BooKhaki]

How many successful football teams has Cameron Ciraldo coached? Let's not play that game, clearly none of us here have run a football team.

Look, I'm not painting myself as an expert. I'm not a former player, or coach, or administrator. But I'll tell you what I do have is empathy. Seems like a rare commodity these days. I also have the ability to recognise that times change, and that something that was accepted previously is not necessarily the best thing to employ now.

Coaching a football team is about man-management and team-building, and that revolves around discovering what it is your team responds to, what motivates them, what gets the best out of them. Sometimes successful management means changing your own style, rather than stubbornly holding on to the way you've always done things. I think that's what has made Kevvie successful - while I think he's still maintained the core of his coaching philosophy, he has been flexible and made changes that have improved the team.

I've already said in this thread it's too early to judge Ciraldo, but it's not looking good, and it could go very south from here.

He just left an extremely successful team. Do you think his methods are from previous experience from Penrith, or he just designed them in his head? Cameron Smith has said Melbourne did the exact same thing when someone is late, as it's disrespecting every member of the staff.

You can have empathy all you like, but this is a professional sporting organisation. Nobody is saying he is a bad bloke, but maybe footy isn't for him and he should look down a new career path, because you're turning empathy into enabling.

 

[Culhwch]

He just left an extremely successful team. Do you think his methods are from previous experience from Penrith, or he just designed them in his head? Cameron Smith has said Melbourne did the exact same thing when someone is late, as it's disrespecting every member of the staff.

You can have empathy all you like, but this is a professional sporting organisation. Nobody is saying he is a bad bloke, but maybe footy isn't for him and he should look down a new career path, because you're turning empathy into enabling.

Andrew Webster left the same successful team.

Cameron Smith can say that, and you can agree with him that it's a good method. That's fine.

It's a bit of a shame that we could lose great talents that could thrive in our game - that could be bettered in themselves, mentally and emotionally, with the right support - because 'they can't hack it'. Being supportive, putting in place good practices that foster wellbeing and positive mental health - that's not enabling, unless you view it as enabling someone to succeed. I can get behind that kind of enabling.