NRL General Discussion Thread

[BooKhaki]

Andrew Webster left the same successful team.

Cameron Smith can say that, and you can agree with him that it's a good method. That's fine.

It's a bit of a shame that we could lose great talents that could thrive in our game - that could be bettered in themselves, mentally and emotionally, with the right support - because 'they can't hack it'. Being supportive, putting in place good practices that foster wellbeing and positive mental health - that's not enabling, unless you view it as enabling someone to succeed. I can get behind that kind of enabling.

Who says the same thing hasn't happened at the Warriors? But they are winning, so less complaints.

Sorry but all the talent in the world means nothing if you can't handle it, mentally or physically. Allowing people to not be punished because of "mental health" is bullshit. They should absolutely get support from the club, but that doesn't mean special treatment.

 

[Culhwch]

Who says the same thing hasn't happened at the Warriors? But they are winning, so less complaints.

Sorry but all the talent in the world means nothing if you can't handle it, mentally or physically. Allowing people to not be punished because of "mental health" is bullshit. They should absolutely get support from the club, but that doesn't mean special treatment.

And who says it has? You are simply speculating to support your own argument there. It's a fair comparison - both coaches exited the same successful club, both went to perennial recent underachievers, one turned their team around and one is facing rumours of player unrest. Personally, I can't imagine they are employing the same coaching methods and getting such wildly different results.

My argument is not that there should be special treatment, but rather that perhaps we shouldn't be looking at 'punishing' players but supporting them and helping them to improve. They are adults, not children to be scolded and spanked. I'm content knowing that a lot of people here will think that's a soft approach. We're going to have to just agree to disagree.

 

[Culhwch]

Whoever wrote that article is wrong. They have stuffed up the context. I might be wrong but I don't think Davey has had any issues with mental health. Dont think Buzz was saying that either if you go back and watch the first exchange. He is referencing the kid that is on leave not Davey.

Just watching it now. You are right, the article is incorrect when it says Rothfield is talking about Davey initially, he is talking about the unnamed player with their mental health issues. Graham immediately interrupts with his own story of mental health and states that he expects no special treatment. That still doesn't look good to me, to be honest. Feels like he is jumping on that player by saying, well I didn't expect any special treatment, with the unspoken inference that neither should the unnamed player. Also, Graham now he has only been treated for the past two years - that's not to say that he didn't experience issues during his career, but he is very specific with that time frame, so is he really comparing apples with apples there?

Graham then goes on a rant about Davey, noting that everything he said on the radio was true - this includes Graham knowing Davey's thoughts and motivations - then graciously acknowledges that Davey 'had his own version', but again circles back to knowing the truth because he works for the club and speaks to people. I wish that Rothfield pushed him more on this. Of note to me is that Davey was approached and asked, he didn't seek out an avenue to air his grievance.

Rothfield then brings up the other players who have left (I assume, I'm not across them all, only recognized TPJ), and Graham says they only left because they were losing... but surely that's not an issue separate to the coaching? Why are they losing, James? Plenty of teams consistently lose, and we don't see this type of exodus or backlash. Graham brushes that off to circle back to the point that Davey only left because he was embarrassed to lose his spot.

I can't believe that Rothfield is the person championing player wellbeing and mental health on this panel, but here we are. Graham is very worked up and just keeps interrupting with the same tired points about him knowing better. First comes in with a 'rugby league isn't for everyone' but that really just feels like deflection to avoid addressing these issues.

My lunch break is about to end so I still haven't watched it all, but the last part I watched Graham is arguing that Ciraldo must be a great coach because they gave him a five year contract. That's never not worked out in the past...

 

[broncos4life]

Why would he be lazy now though? He worked hard to make his debut at 27- played 56 Cup games and 30 NSW Cup games.

Lazy doesn't fit his career? He would have given up a long time ago if he didn't work hard.

Buzz should have asked that question.

Buzz should have asked that question but I think there is a key reason they had Buzz go up against Graham, because he isn't equipped for it. By Buzz's own admission it was actually Brent Read's story but Read asked him to assist by making some calls. Funny that Ready is on the panel last night yet they roll him out to bring Graham on like an attack dog to bark at Buzz. Not that I am saying Read is some kind of intellectual but he can hold his ground and make more sense than Buzz can.

 

[Culhwch]

Buzz should have asked that question but I think there is a key reason they had Buzz go up against Graham, because he isn't equipped for it. By Buzz's own admission it was actually Brent Read's story but Read asked him to assist by making some calls. Funny that Ready is on the panel last night yet they roll him out to bring Graham on like an attack dog to bark at Buzz. Not that I am saying Read is some kind of intellectual but he can hold his ground and make more sense than Buzz can.

I particularly liked Graham constantly telling Rothfield not to interrupt him... and then constantly interrupting Rothfield. Graham came across as very angry and frustrated, and it felt very, very personal.

 

[JayPee]

I particularly liked Graham constantly telling Rothfield not to interrupt him... and then constantly interrupting Rothfield. Graham came across as very angry and frustrated, and it felt very, very personal.

I didn't get this at all. It was rothfield that was interrupting constantly bringing up recruitment. He did like 3 times. That's where he misses me because his sole objective is to paint gould as the problem which he is part of but it is clearly a vendetta against gould.

 

[JayPee]

Just watching it now. You are right, the article is incorrect when it says Rothfield is talking about Davey initially, he is talking about the unnamed player with their mental health issues. Graham immediately interrupts with his own story of mental health and states that he expects no special treatment. That still doesn't look good to me, to be honest. Feels like he is jumping on that player by saying, well I didn't expect any special treatment, with the unspoken inference that neither should the unnamed player. Also, Graham now he has only been treated for the past two years - that's not to say that he didn't experience issues during his career, but he is very specific with that time frame, so is he really comparing apples with apples there?

Graham then goes on a rant about Davey, noting that everything he said on the radio was true - this includes Graham knowing Davey's thoughts and motivations - then graciously acknowledges that Davey 'had his own version', but again circles back to knowing the truth because he works for the club and speaks to people. I wish that Rothfield pushed him more on this. Of note to me is that Davey was approached and asked, he didn't seek out an avenue to air his grievance.

Rothfield then brings up the other players who have left (I assume, I'm not across them all, only recognized TPJ), and Graham says they only left because they were losing... but surely that's not an issue separate to the coaching? Why are they losing, James? Plenty of teams consistently lose, and we don't see this type of exodus or backlash. Graham brushes that off to circle back to the point that Davey only left because he was embarrassed to lose his spot.

I can't believe that Rothfield is the person championing player wellbeing and mental health on this panel, but here we are. Graham is very worked up and just keeps interrupting with the same tired points about him knowing better. First comes in with a 'rugby league isn't for everyone' but that really just feels like deflection to avoid addressing these issues.

My lunch break is about to end so I still haven't watched it all, but the last part I watched Graham is arguing that Ciraldo must be a great coach because they gave him a five year contract. That's never not worked out in the past...

Well to be fair rugby league isn't for everyone. It's intense. Mentally and physically. If you can't handle some stress or adversity it may not be for some people.

You can be the smartest bloke in the world and pass all your exams but if you get flustered or stressed as a surgeon you may not be cut up for being a surgeon. It's just how it is. Sometimes people aren't up to it.

We will just have to disagree about the training methods. I dont know everything but if that's all the punishment was then I dont get the problem. My pure speculation is the kid was probably already on the edge in some part of his life and this set him over the edge maybe. We will probably never find out.

 

[Culhwch]

I didn't get this at all. It was rothfield that was interrupting constantly bringing up recruitment. He did like 3 times. That's where he misses me because his sole objective is to paint gould as the problem which he is part of but it is clearly a vendetta against gould.

They were both interrupting each other, I just thought it was amusing that Graham complained about it.

The recruitment angle is relevant, and Graham danced around it. 'It's becoz thay're loosin'!' But why are they losing?

 

[Culhwch]

Well to be fair rugby league isn't for everyone. It's intense. Mentally and physically. If you can't handle some stress or adversity it may not be for some people.

You can be the smartest bloke in the world and pass all your exams but if you get flustered or stressed as a surgeon you may not be cut up for being a surgeon. It's just how it is. Sometimes people aren't up to it.

We will just have to disagree about the training methods. I dont know everything but if that's all the punishment was then I dont get the problem. My pure speculation is the kid was probably already on the edge in some part of his life and this set him over the edge maybe. We will probably never find out.

We treat footballers like they are somewhere between children and animals, sometimes - and even former players get on this bandwagon. In what other industry is it okay to physically punish and humiliate an employee for a minor indiscretion like being late - but in sports, it's all good? It's culture. You're not buying into the culture. We're trying to build culture. You can't hack it, go play touch, you ballerina.

Yes, becoming the best at a competitive sport like rugby league involves a lot of mental fortitude and abilities beyond just being a special athlete - but it also puts a heap of pressure on young men who are sometimes thrown to the wolves far too early in life, and discarded because 'they couldn't hack it'. If this player felt like what everyone seems to be telling me is very standard response to be being late for training was too much, and it affected him the way it did, then questions should absolutely be asked about why it happens, whether it should, and why there wasn't better support around this kid to prevent him from feeling like he had to walk away.

 

[LittleDavey]

You can be the smartest bloke in the world and pass all your exams but if you get flustered or stressed as a surgeon you may not be cut up for being a surgeon. It's just how it is. Sometimes people aren't up to it.

 

[tommy]

I didn't get this at all. It was rothfield that was interrupting constantly bringing up recruitment. He did like 3 times. That's where he misses me because his sole objective is to paint gould as the problem which he is part of but it is clearly a vendetta against gould.

I’ve found that entire show is just the “alpha” hosts yelling over their counterparts so that only their opinion is broadcast. Hooper has to be the worst. I hope graham bites his ear off one day.

 

[Mr Fourex]

We will just have to disagree about the training methods. I dont know everything but if that's all the punishment was then I dont get the problem. My pure speculation is the kid was probably already on the edge in some part of his life and this set him over the edge maybe. We will probably never find out.

I don't get the problem either........disciplinary measures have been dished up at sports/RL training since Artie was in short pants.

I remember having to do laps for being late to training.......
I remember the entire front row lining up against me (a halfback) and I was expected to tackle them.......cause I was being a smart arse.
etc etc etc.......

All this talk about big bad Ciraldo and his training methods are too mean for the players is a fucken joke.

Its so typical of the molly coddled world we now live in. Own your mistakes FFS.......take your punishment and move on.

 

[JayPee]

I wish I could say I meant it...

 

[BroncosFever]

How did he rip into the bloke missing? Graham went at Davey.

Graham was spot on. Struggling with mental health doesn't excuse you from your job or the consequences of being late. If the bloke can't mentally handle what comes with football, he should find a career that supports those struggles.

There will be a time in your life where things aren't so great, I just hope you're afforded a bit more compassion than you're prepared to give others.

 

[Brett Da Man LeMan]

Did anyone see the article that came out today or yesterday talking about how chin cleary, when he was younger, used to have a picture of Shaun Johnson up on his wall? Anyone else reckon that was (not so) subtle mind games being played? Trying to get into johnsons head that he is the old has been?

 

[Financeguy]

Did anyone see the article that came out today or yesterday talking about how chin cleary, when he was younger, used to have a picture of Shaun Johnson up on his wall? Anyone else reckon that was (not so) subtle mind games being played? Trying to get into johnsons head that he is the old has been?

I think you are overthinking it…most likely Cleary had a poster up on his wall of Johnson as he enjoyed him as a player, especially as Ivan did coach Johnson

 

[Harry Sack]

I think you are overthinking it…most likely Cleary had a poster up on his wall of Johnson as he enjoyed him as a player, especially as Ivan did coach Johnson

Wonder how many times he tore one off to it though.

 

[Financeguy]

Wonder how many times he tore one off to it though.

Now that would be true mind games with SJ if that got leaked