NRL Players and family members in hot water

[broncos4life]

When a victim is so inebriated that details are completely missed it must mean that alleged memories are at best suspect and at worst utterly unreliable. This woman barely remembers anything according to her statement, isn't it at least possible she absolutely wanted to have sex, said so, initiated it and later couldn't remember her alter ego escaping ?

I've known quite a few Jekyll and Hyde's in my life, fine up to a point then bam, who the ***** this person ? Her friends said they'd never seen her so intoxicated so perhaps this was a once in a long time thing, maybe she never drinks that heavily because she knows what she's capable of doing when the monsters unleashed.

Naturally if it's a straight case of rape then of course JH should face the full penalty of the law but it certainly looks suspect just on the admissions from the alleged victim.

Absolutely it is possible, no one has said otherwise. A couple of people backed themselves into a corner with their statements that revealed a lot about their character and try to spin the story to claim that others are saying he definitely raped her.

 

[broncos4life]

The only one revealing anything about their character is you once again displaying your ineptitude for participating in adult conversations. I know you MEAN well, but false accusations are insulting, therefore your nose ain’t clean.

I haven't made any false accusations, but I also won't derail a thread and/or make insults towards you like you have me. So you can take my ignoring of your future posts a win if you like.

 

[Nashy]

B4L. Walk away mate. You were called an imbicile, just ignore it and move on with your life.

 

[Morkel]

We'll just simply never know enough to be able to judge either way. Women make foolish decisions. Men are arseholes. It's entirely possible that both of these came in to play, or neither of them did. It's possible that both are lying, or neither are.

 

[Kimlo]

What's wrong with saying a women shares some part of the blame for being "raped" (assuming there's truth to it) if she was completely blind drunk and went home with a stranger?

Like at what point do we as individuals not take blame for the situations we put ourselves in?

Am I saying she deserves it? No. It doesn't make a rapist any less of a feral human either, but the women is still partly to blame for putting herself in that situation.

Why are so we PC that we can't admit that? It's fucking fairytale thinking and if anything encourages stupidity by making women (and men) less likely to think about the situations they put themselves in.

My fucking mate died for hanging out with the wrong crowd, they gave him wrong intel, he went to a guys house for a deal, and ended up getting stabbed and bled out on the side of the road dead. Who killed who? Yeah the **** killed him, but he still absolutely takes part of the blame for being stupid enough to engage in that life, and associate with scums.

If I'm off my head on alcohol or drugs, and I walk into the most dangerous part of the city, and get robbed and bashed, sure those guys are *****, but I would still put a lot of the blame on myself for putting myself in that position.

As an individual, I try to see everything from what I could have done better, because you can't control others, you can control yourself.

Now if someone spins this to me being a rape apologist, or it's the way she dressed, or any of that bullshit, let me pre-emptively say GFYS. I just don't think it's some awful thing to say a women would share some part of the blame if they put themselves in vulnerable positions. If I had kids, I'd certainly be teaching them that the situations you put yourself in will generally determine your outcomes. It doesn't matter who the **** is, but it does matter what situation you allow yourself to be in. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to kill the guy though...

 

[Morkel]

What's wrong with saying a women shares some part of the blame for being "raped" (assuming there's truth to it) if she was completely blind drunk and went home with a stranger?

Like at what point do we as individuals not take blame for the situations we put ourselves in?

Am I saying she deserves it? No. It doesn't make a rapist any less of a feral human either, but the women is still partly to blame for putting herself in that situation.

Why are so we PC that we can't admit that? It's fucking fairytale thinking and if anything encourages stupidity by making women (and men) less likely to think about the situations they put themselves in.

My fucking mate died for hanging out with the wrong crowd, they gave him wrong intel, he went to a guys house for a deal, and ended up getting stabbed and bled out on the side of the road dead. Who killed who? Yeah the **** killed him, but he still absolutely takes part of the blame for being stupid enough to engage in that life, and associate with scums.

If I'm off my head on alcohol or drugs, and I walk into the most dangerous part of the city, and get robbed and bashed, sure those guys are ****s, but I would still put a lot of the blame on myself for putting myself in that position.

As an individual, I try to see everything from what I could have done better, because you can't control others, you can control yourself.

Now if someone spins this to me being a rape apologist, or it's the way she dressed, or any of that bullshit, let me pre-emptively say GFYS. I just don't think it's some awful thing to say a women would share some part of the blame if they put themselves in vulnerable positions. If I had kids, I'd certainly be teaching them that the situations you put yourself in will generally determine your outcomes. It doesn't matter who the **** is, but it does matter what situation you allow yourself to be in. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to kill the guy though...

 

[Dash]

What's wrong with saying a women shares some part of the blame for being "raped" (assuming there's truth to it) if she was completely blind drunk and went home with a stranger?

Like at what point do we as individuals not take blame for the situations we put ourselves in?

Am I saying she deserves it? No. It doesn't make a rapist any less of a feral human either, but the women is still partly to blame for putting herself in that situation.

Why are so we PC that we can't admit that? It's fucking fairytale thinking and if anything encourages stupidity by making women (and men) less likely to think about the situations they put themselves in.

My fucking mate died for hanging out with the wrong crowd, they gave him wrong intel, he went to a guys house for a deal, and ended up getting stabbed and bled out on the side of the road dead. Who killed who? Yeah the **** killed him, but he still absolutely takes part of the blame for being stupid enough to engage in that life, and associate with scums.

If I'm off my head on alcohol or drugs, and I walk into the most dangerous part of the city, and get robbed and bashed, sure those guys are ****s, but I would still put a lot of the blame on myself for putting myself in that position.

As an individual, I try to see everything from what I could have done better, because you can't control others, you can control yourself.

Now if someone spins this to me being a rape apologist, or it's the way she dressed, or any of that bullshit, let me pre-emptively say GFYS. I just don't think it's some awful thing to say a women would share some part of the blame if they put themselves in vulnerable positions. If I had kids, I'd certainly be teaching them that the situations you put yourself in will generally determine your outcomes. It doesn't matter who the **** is, but it does matter what situation you allow yourself to be in. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to kill the guy though...

Everything you say is 100% correct, yet in the end it just gets used as an excuse by the perpetrator. How many drinks can someone have before they're asking to be raped (or bashed or robbed or whatever else)? How late at night is too late to be walking home alone? The more excuses we provide for criminals, the more crimes they will commit. Give an inch, take a mile.

A culture of "well sure it's wrong, but you brought it upon yourself" only serves to take the onus away from the dickheads to control their shitty behavior.

 

[Sproj]

Everything you say is 100% correct, yet in the end it just gets used as an excuse by the perpetrator. How many drinks can someone have before they're asking to be raped (or bashed or robbed or whatever else)? How late at night is too late to be walking home alone? The more excuses we provide for criminals, the more crimes they will commit. Give an inch, take a mile.

This is not giving excuses though, this is sadly a part of the world we live in. You are describing a perfect world, we don't live in a perfect world, so to be in the state she was in is not putting herself in a safe position given the world we live in. No one can say they are unaware of possible results of being in a state like that.

No, this is condoning bad activity, it is called being aware of the way the world unfortunately is. It is not right but it is the way things are sadly. Everything should be different, a man or woman in that kind of state should be safe but everyone knows being in that state simply increases the risk of bad things being done. I think that is the point being made.

 

[Dash]

This is not giving excuses though, this is sadly a part of the world we live in. You are describing a perfect world, we don't live in a perfect world, so to be in the state she was in is not putting herself in a safe position given the world we live in. No one can say they are unaware of possible results of being in a state like that.

No, this is condoning bad activity, it is called being aware of the way the world unfortunately is. It is not right but it is the way things are sadly. Everything should be different, a man or woman in that kind of state should be safe but everyone knows being in that state simply increases the risk of bad things being done. I think that is the point being made.

I understand the point being made and I agree with it. Arseholes will always exist and you have at least some personal responsibility to keep yourself safe.

The problem I have is that when the first reaction is to blame the victim, we're only exacerbating the situation. We're providing that little bit extra wiggle room that the scum of the world don't deserve. The more we say "she/he shouldn't have been so drunk" the more we're subtly implying that it's okay to hurt someone if they're too drunk. In this thread we've spent more time arguing over the (alleged) victim's culpability than the (alleged) perpetrator's. Doesn't that seem wrong?

The world isn't perfect and probably never will be, but it certainly won't be if we keep treating being drunk as a bigger error of judgement than raping a drunk person.

 

[Huge]

Shakespeare summed it up many years ago with ' how oft the sight of the means to do ill deeds makes ill deeds done '....

 

[Huge]

I understand the point being made and I agree with it. Arseholes will always exist and you have at least some personal responsibility to keep yourself safe.

The problem I have is that when the first reaction is to blame the victim, we're only exacerbating the situation. We're providing that little bit extra wiggle room that the scum of the world don't deserve. The more we say "she/he shouldn't have been so drunk" the more we're subtly implying that it's okay to hurt someone if they're too drunk. In this thread we've spent more time arguing over the (alleged) victim's culpability than the (alleged) perpetrator's. Doesn't that seem wrong?

The world isn't perfect and probably never will be, but it certainly won't be if we keep treating being drunk as a bigger error of judgement than raping a drunk person.

Really, you think someone on here went to blaming the woman as a first reaction ? Or is it you think everyone's first reaction was blaming the alleged victim ? I try not to have any reaction other than starting with skepticism about all parties statements.

No, it doesn't seem wrong because we unanimously agree that the act of rape by the a male on a defenceless woman is wrong. We are discussing grey areas.

 

[Nashy]

I understand the point being made and I agree with it. Arseholes will always exist and you have at least some personal responsibility to keep yourself safe.

The problem I have is that when the first reaction is to blame the victim, we're only exacerbating the situation. We're providing that little bit extra wiggle room that the scum of the world don't deserve. The more we say "she/he shouldn't have been so drunk" the more we're subtly implying that it's okay to hurt someone if they're too drunk. In this thread we've spent more time arguing over the (alleged) victim's culpability than the (alleged) perpetrator's. Doesn't that seem wrong?

The world isn't perfect and probably never will be, but it certainly won't be if we keep treating being drunk as a bigger error of judgement than raping a drunk person.

So we call the guy a rapist first, then we can question her intention?

 

[Dash]

Really, you think someone on here went to blaming the woman as a first reaction ? Or is it you think everyone's first reaction was blaming the alleged victim ? I try not to have any reaction other than starting with skepticism about all parties statements.

No, it doesn't seem wrong because we unanimously agree that the act of rape by the a male on a defenceless woman is wrong. We are discussing grey areas.

The point I'm trying to make isn't necessarily about this case or any other. My point is that as a society we put far too much emphasis on "don't put yourself in an unsafe situation" and not enough on "don't rape people who put themselves in unsafe situations".

 

[Alec]

There has to be some sort of proof first before a person can be blamed. In modern society, everything escalates if you let it. If we decide it's OK to blame someone without proof, what will people try to get around next?

 

[Huge]

The point I'm trying to make isn't necessarily about this case or any other. My point is that as a society we put far too much emphasis on "don't put yourself in an unsafe situation" and not enough on "don't rape people who put themselves in unsafe situations".

Well, maybe where you live but in the less hysterical real world I live in they jail people for rape when proven and I'm yet to see anyone jailed or even fined for stupidly making themselves vulnerable. So no, no way in the world is there too much emphasis on keeping yourself safe.

 

[Huge]

The point I'm trying to make isn't necessarily about this case or any other. My point is that as a society we put far too much emphasis on "don't put yourself in an unsafe situation" and not enough on "don't rape people who put themselves in unsafe situations".

I didn't see anyone say she straight out lied or blame her solely. Maybe they did, didn't read that.

 

[holdzy]

There has to be some sort of proof first before a person can be blamed. In modern society, everything escalates if you let it. If we decide it's OK to blame someone without proof, what will people try to get around next?

No one here has said Hayne did it, or that they think Hayne did it as far as I know.

But several people come out and said 'probably just a drunk skank making shit up'...or supported the notion.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the supposed trial by socia media anyway, but as much as there is a culture looking to make victims out of everybody and be outraged by proxy, there is also a culture of dismissing and trivialising sexual abuse.

I think people in general, men and women, need to realise an intoxicated person can't give consent. Obviously, we have a huge alcohol problem in this country, and as a species in general. But getting a woman drunk in order to get her to say yes is an age old strategy, and it's pretty fucked.

 

[holdzy]

Again, she has no blame in getting herself drunk? FFS... too far left, man.

She got herself drunk...And?

The claim being made here is that she had sex consentually (despite being drunk out of her mind) and then regretted it and claimed she was raped. Entirely possible.

Equally as likely she was drunk off her mind, went looking for sex and changed her mind, then woke up to find she had been raped, no?

Or are women not allowed to change their minds, at ANY point?

Unless the woman makes it clear she wants sex before being drunk, it's dodgy. It's rapey. Don't be fucking willingly naive. No one is discounting a womans personal responsibility, but some of us aren't going to cop this 'either way it's her own fault' shit.