NRL Players and family members in hot water

[tommy]

and not enough on "don't rape people who put themselves in unsafe situations".

Do you think all the rapes would stop if we put more emphasis on this?

 

[Dash]

Do you think all the rapes would stop if we put more emphasis on this?

If we can't stop them all should we not bother trying to stop some?

 

[tommy]

If we can't stop them all should we not bother trying to stop some?

My point is the people who would do something like that aren't going to listen.

 

[Dash]

My point is the people who would do something like that aren't going to listen.

Might be different if they weren't conditioned their whole lives to know that people will just put the blame on her for being too drunk to say no.

 

[holdzy]

See, you and B4L are putting words in other people’s mouths and then choosing to get outraged. That’s where this whole discussion becomes pointless. I never said that and I don’t believe anybody else has either. I agree wholeheartedly on the unbolded, fucking obviously.

My only issue in this thread was with CaptainHook's language, and the initial assumptions that this was another 'drunk skank making shit up'.

I didn't put words in his mouth, I asked him to clarify and he did not do so satisfactorily. What I was left with was a limp dick justification for women being raped, due to them putting themselves in such a position due to being too drunk, and then a bunch of people that don't want to be seen to be 'left wing, all women are special snowflakes' piling on.

I guess to sum up, I am saying whether a woman is drunk or not really plays no role in the outcome of her being raped. From her perspective.

Consentually agreeing to sex and then trying to falsely accuse someone of rape afterwards is a different story. Obviously what we are discussing here is mainly to do with 'drunk consent'.

This is a pointless argument/discussion though.

 

[Sproj]

My only issue in this thread was with CaptainHook's language, and the initial assumptions that this was another 'drunk skank making shit up'.

I didn't put words in his mouth, I asked him to clarify and he did not do so satisfactorily. What I was left with was a limp dick justification for women being raped, due to them putting themselves in such a position due to being too drunk, and then a bunch of people that don't want to be seen to be 'left wing, all women are special snowflakes' piling on.

I guess to sum up, I am saying whether a woman is drunk or not really plays no role in the outcome of her being raped. From her perspective.

Consentually agreeing to sex and then trying to falsely accuse someone of rape afterwards is a different story. Obviously what we are discussing here is mainly to do with 'drunk consent'.

This is a pointless argument/discussion though.

Sometimes you just have to look at who is posting what though and if it is basically one person saying these outlandish statements, just try not to tar others with the same brush.

 

[holdzy]

Sometimes you just have to look at who is posting what though and if it is basically one person saying these outlandish statements, just try not to tar others with the same brush.

I don't believe I did.

As I said, my issue in this thread was with CaptainHook, and less with the people agreeing with the stupid things he said.

 

[tommy]

Unless the woman makes it clear she wants sex before being drunk, it's dodgy. It's rapey. Don't be fucking willingly naive. No one is discounting a womans personal responsibility, but some of us aren't going to cop this 'either way it's her own fault' shit.

So in you opinion what is the line? .05? 2 drinks? 4 drinks? A little tipsy? 10 drinks? It's a very broad spectrum to consider and I put my hand up I have hooked up with girls that had had a few drinks, as had I. In fact tonnes of people from both sexes do it every weekend. We both enjoyed every second of it and there were no regrets in the morning as what happens on 99% of these occasions. Does that make me a rapist?

This is why I said there is a difference between being drunk and being so drunk you are falling asleep and can't walk.

 

[Porthoz]

So in you opinion what is the line? .05? 2 drinks? 4 drinks? A little tipsy? 10 drinks? It's a very broad spectrum to consider and I put my hand up I have hooked up with girls that had had a few drinks, as had I. In fact tonnes of people from both sexes do it every weekend. We both enjoyed every second of it and there were no regrets in the morning as what happens on 99% of these occasions. Does that make me a rapist?

This is why I said there is a difference between being drunk and being so drunk you are falling asleep and can't walk.

It's a fine line, but I would draw it beyond tipsy. Anything after that is purely alcohol speaking, which blocks one's natural inhibitions.

Is it ok to take advantage of that? I don't believe so, even if it is technically not rape. It is however far from conscious consent in my opinion.

Of course, this is just me, but while I may well have ended up in someone's bed while wearing beer goggles myself, I've never had a case of regret about doing that or vice versa. There are other things I regret doing under the influence, but irrelevant to this topic.

I have never taken advantage of that situation with a woman clearly under the influence, because I know she may well deeply regret and psychologically suffer from it, despite all the consent given at the time.

P.S. Waiting for all the puns about the psychological damage to any woman in any state, from having sex with me... :p

 

[holdzy]

So in you opinion what is the line? .05? 2 drinks? 4 drinks? A little tipsy? 10 drinks? It's a very broad spectrum to consider and I put my hand up I have hooked up with girls that had had a few drinks, as had I. In fact tonnes of people from both sexes do it every weekend. We both enjoyed every second of it and there were no regrets in the morning as what happens on 99% of these occasions. Does that make me a rapist?

This is why I said there is a difference between being drunk and being so drunk you are falling asleep and can't walk.

What would make you a rapist is if one of those drunk girls said no, and drunk you had sex with her anyway. It's pretty clear cut. If at any point she says no, you stop. Simple.

As for the actual subject at hand, if there is evidence Hayne had sex with her, without her consent (grey area obviously given intoxication), then he should go to jail. If there is evidence that the girl is lying to make money or get Hayne in trouble for some reason, she should go to jail. The battle of the sexes need not be decided here in the NRL Players in hot water thread.

 

[Browny]

So according to Channel 10 he doesn’t have to attend as they can’t force him, but they would view his non attendance as an admission of guilt.

Also any restitution CAN be enforced by the USA authorities seizing his assets even though he resides in Australia.

 

[tommy]

What would make you a rapist is if one of those drunk girls said no, and drunk you had sex with her anyway. It's pretty clear cut. If at any point she says no, you stop. Simple.

As for the actual subject at hand, if there is evidence Hayne had sex with her, without her consent (grey area obviously given intoxication), then he should go to jail. If there is evidence that the girl is lying to make money or get Hayne in trouble for some reason, she should go to jail. The battle of the sexes need not be decided here in the NRL Players in hot water thread.

So a woman who has been drinking can give consent.

 

[holdzy]

So a woman who has been drinking can give consent.

Yes, no one is disputing that/has disputed that. And I appreciate your distinction between semi-conscious decision making. It's simply a grey area when it comes to women giving consent...less so for men. Fuckin' way she goes.

It's the taking advantage of aspect that is relevant ie being more able to discern if someone is capable of decision making or not. Let's not be coy and suggest it's not a male centric problem.

 

[Dash]

good points. If this were the case, I’d be a serial rapist considering after more than a decade of being with my partner and having a kid with her, most of the time it takes us getting shitfaced to get the Barry White out...

You know very well I'm not talking about that (and I'm right with you in that same boat).

It's the blokes who see a chick passing out at a party, and take her into the other room and start feeling her up. The blokes who offer a lift to the girl at the club who's too drunk to call a cab. They know their chances of being caught is minimal at best, and even if they are, the first words out of their mouth are "she consented, she was just too drunk to remember" and Bob's your uncle - he's not a rapist, she's just a dirty slut. People will continue to do that kind of thing because we as a society perpetuate that bullshit line of thinking.

 

[Sproj]

You know very well I'm not talking about that (and I'm right with you in that same boat).

It's the blokes who see a chick passing out at a party, and take her into the other room and start feeling her up. The blokes who offer a lift to the girl at the club who's too drunk to call a cab. They know their chances of being caught is minimal at best, and even if they are, the first words out of their mouth are "she consented, she was just too drunk to remember" and Bob's your uncle - he's not a rapist, she's just a dirty slut. People will continue to do that kind of thing because we as a society perpetuate that bullshit line of thinking.

Which brings us to the actual point no one has spoken about yet, if her friend says she was drunker than she's ever been (or something to that effect, I don't remember the exact wording), why didn't they stick up for her and take her with them instead of letting her go with the unknown jock in the room?

 

[holdzy]

Which brings us to the actual point no one has spoken about yet, if her friend says she was drunker than she's ever been (or something to that effect, I don't remember the exact wording), why didn't they stick up for her and take her with them instead of letting her go with the unknown jock in the room?

The Horse is the White of the Eyes.

 

[Sproj]

The Horse is the White of the Eyes.

You are saying it is all David Lynch's fault?

 

[holdzy]

You are saying it is all David Lynch's fault?

Nope. He just provided the microscope. It's the people watching.