Our realistic chances?

[Bucking Beads]

Fair dinkum if Hoffman gets suspended I won't watch another game this season. As for Norman at fullback, have we not tried that before??

 

[IBA]

He had a cracker at fullback round 1 last year. Or 2 years ago now? I think it could have been his NRL debut as well.

 

[user_nat]

Was R1 2010. He did have a cracker as far as setting up trys and making some nice try saving tackles.
He also dropped a simply kick that led to a try, which led to a Cowboys fight back. I really think he has dropped at least 1 kick in each game he has played at fullback and in the games he came off the bench played there.

 

[Old Mate]

Could just move Norman to centre for now, w/ Hodges and Reed injured. He plays like one anyway, but he wouldn't have the added responsibility of creating points and organising back line plays.

I reckon that'd be great.

 

[gUt]

Someone needs to tell the players where to stand, where to run and when to run. Locky was that man. Karmichael used to be another. Nobody in the team now is.

Now, that's Alfie's job...

 

[gUt]

Of the two halves on the field, Wallace performs more consistently and with better results. Norman is adding nothing and he's only had a handful of games I would consider good this year. If people are hell bent on changing the halves, it has to be Hunt in for Norman. You are 100% out of your mind to want to keep Norman over Wallace, XXXX. He is MIA for half of most games, tries to run far too often and generally hasn't been the 5/8 we were looking for. If anyone is changing here, it has to be Norman. And i'm not even sold on that. Hunt is not a miracle replacement. He has had some moments for sure but dumping him in the backline won't solve all the problems.

Wallace has had a couple of absolutely shockers the last couple of weeks. No worse a streak than Thaiday, Gillette, Reed, McCullough etc have all had this year though. Norman has been consistently very average with a handful of good games. But I still don't think shuffling everyone round will solve it, there is no instant cure. It seems like their putting much more emphasis on defence than attack in training and we need to work on our backline movements and ability to execute plays on the fly. Players in motion, some dummy runners for ****s sake...

great post

 

[rnabokov]

Now, that's Alfie's job...

It's Hook's job first - as he has done so well in defence. He sets the structures and the plays, and the players job is to keep that structure and execute the plays. On field, during the game, it's the job of the captain, or whoever has the role, to make sure the structure is kept.

This is where Lockyer was so influential. He did that so effectively for so many years.

This year was always going to be an experiment with seeing who would take over Lockyer's rather complex role in this team, the critical one being, as many have observed, leader and organizer.

For mine, the experiment this year with Norman was to see how he slotted into the 2nd receiver, or 1st receiver, or whatever play making role Hook set for him. In that role, he has been not that bad - for his 1st year.

On reflection, and despite my sometime savage criticism of him, it is not Norman who is to blame for our suspect attack.

The issue here is both the attacking structures coached, and its execution on field. Which brings up the key question as many are observing: who's job is it to organize the side on field?

For mine it is Wallace, Macca and Thaiday who need to do the organizing. So far, they have been hot and cold.

My greatest disappointment is not Norman, but that neither Wallace nor Thaiday have stepped up consistently to help Norman, and to organize the side generally to execute consistently.

It's either that or Hook has not shown he can match his defensive structural success with the same in attack. In any case, unless Wallace, Thaiday or whoever steps up to lead this team, we won't make the 8.

 

[Old Mate]

It's not Thaidays job to organize the attack at all, it falls on Macca, Wal and Norman. We seem fine around the ruck it's only when moving the ball to the outside backs we struggle which means its all on Wal and Norman and when Norman's your 5/8 and your backs are in line with you every single time you get the ball you're doing something wrong. I could see the side attacking better if Norman slots in at first receiver and Wal to 2nd when we're spreading the ball wide though.

We need to ditch the Norm and bring in the Hunt.

 

[rnabokov]

Then why bother with a captain? To be the tosser? Coin that is ...

If things are not going to plan, the captain steps up and in, assuming there is a plan, and lays down the law - just as Lockyer did.

If I have missed it, please tell me. Does Thaiday do that? Does Wallace? Macca? Does anyone talk out there?

And we are not "fine" around the ruck. If we were, Gillett, Thaiday, Glenn and T'eo would be consistently getting the ball at speed, setting up offloads, breaking the line and/or scoring tries - especially in the opposition 20. That happens inconsistently and rather rarely.

Those 4 back rowers are serious strike weapons, as good as it gets in this comp.

Yesterday, we actually saw Gillett get some decent ball on the edges. It looked like at last there was some structure involving him and, despite some errors, he lifted because of that. Maybe that is the start of a resurgence. The next few matches will show it, or not.

 

[Coxy]

Well think back to Gordie. He wouldn't have given advice on attacking formations etc. He led by example. If the chips were down he'd rev the players up, and then go out and do what he said.

That's where I think Thaiday is struggling. Firstly, I don't think he's saying anything, and even if he does, he's not in good enough form to back it up.

 

[rnabokov]

Well think back to Gordie. He wouldn't have given advice on attacking formations etc. He led by example. If the chips were down he'd rev the players up, and then go out and do what he said.

That's where I think Thaiday is struggling. Firstly, I don't think he's saying anything, and even if he does, he's not in good enough form to back it up.

This.

However one reason Thaiday's form looks less than it should be is that no one follows him when he gets the ball. The lack of support play and one-out running are serious problems with this side

 

[Old Mate]

Then why bother with a captain? To be the tosser? Coin that is ...

If things are not going to plan, the captain steps up and in, assuming there is a plan, and lays down the law - just as Lockyer did.

If I have missed it, please tell me. Does Thaiday do that? Does Wallace? Macca? Does anyone talk out there?

And we are not "fine" around the ruck. If we were, Gillett, Thaiday, Glenn and T'eo would be consistently getting the ball at speed, setting up offloads, breaking the line and/or scoring tries - especially in the opposition 20. That happens inconsistently and rather rarely.

Those 4 back rowers are serious strike weapons, as good as it gets in this comp.

Yesterday, we actually saw Gillett get some decent ball on the edges. It looked like at last there was some structure involving him and, despite some errors, he lifted because of that. Maybe that is the start of a resurgence. The next few matches will show it, or not.

Coxy nailed what Thaiday is meant to do as captain, and yeah we're fine around the ruck, we've been making great metres and getting into good field position through the middle of the field all year, yeah on the edges we haven't excelled as much but that's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Old Mate]

This.

However one reason Thaiday's form looks less than it should be is that no one follows him when he gets the ball. The lack of support play and one-out running are serious problems with this side

Agreed.

 

[Porthoz]

I haven't given up on this season yet. We have too much talent in our ranks to do that.

We are in a slump though, and although I thought we hit rock bottom last week as far as the attack is concerned, we managed to be worse this week.

We are too predictable in our ball movements, Norman can't set up a play to save his life at the moment, Hoffman's timing and positioning is atrocious, and as many have said, while Wallace is a solid halfback, he is trying too hard to do things he doesn't have the innate ability to do, and his body language speaks for itself.

I had the chance to watch the Broncos from a different perspective at Skilled Park, than I usually do at Suncorp.
It gave me a chance to see the halves lateral movement, Hoffman's positioning and the lines our second rowers were running.

To start with the worst, I love the kid and still believe he has a future, but fark me... Hoffman's attacking nous is absolutely nonexistent. He generally will only chime in when there is a semblance of a set play, and even then, his timing is bad. Besides restricting our attack and second phase plays, it makes it too easy for the defense to read, because they will know when Hoffman is going to be involved in a play. There were a few times that Scott Prince was moving on Hoffman from the moment of the play the ball, and on top of him as soon as he received the ball.

Second worst is the lines ran by the forwards. What happened to dummy runners? What happened to running at the defense in angles, committing defenders and opening holes for other players or the play maker to slip through? The best run all night was made by Petero at the end of the game FFS!

The above will no doubt contribute, but too many times does the ball die in Norman's and Wallace's hands. Wallace blew up a couple of times at his fringe runners, Thaiday and Te'o in particular. But they are also guilty of standing too flat to give themselves the room to take on the line at speed and put a player through a hole (if that player is actually there). The only players who regularly follow up on potential second phase plays are Wallace and Hunt when he's on the paddock. Norman's try is a textbook example of what we should be aiming for.

Last but not least, the captain... Wallace is the one doing all the talking on the field, Norman does chime in once in a blue moon, Petero and Parker bits and pieces and Thaiday... Only talks to the refs, and often only after one of our players blows up (often Parker or Wallace).

All of this can be fixed, and there can be many other factors influencing our performances of late, which is why I'm not giving up on this team. Besides, looking at the competition, only the Dogs are at their peak, and it's probably too early... Hopefully we'll peak towards the end of August and September, but to have any chance, we have to start winning games NOW!

TLDR: We have too much potential to give up, but the existing problems need to be addressed. In a professional organisation such as ours, it is not too much to ask for!

 

[Old Mate]

I haven't given up on this season yet. We have too much talent in our ranks to do that.

We are in a slump though, and although I thought we hit rock bottom last week as far as the attack is concerned, we managed to be worse this week.

We are too predictable in our ball movements, Norman can't set up a play to save his life at the moment, Hoffman's timing and positioning is atrocious, and as many have said, while Wallace is a solid halfback, he is trying too hard to do things he doesn't have the innate ability to do, and his body language speaks for itself.

I had the chance to watch the Broncos from a different perspective at Skilled Park, than I usually do at Suncorp.
It gave me a chance to see the halves lateral movement, Hoffman's positioning and the lines our second rowers were running.

To start with the worst, I love the kid and still believe he has a future, but fark me... Hoffman's attacking nous is absolutely nonexistent. He generally will only chime in when there is a semblance of a set play, and even then, his timing is bad. Besides restricting our attack and second phase plays, it makes it too easy for the defense to read, because they will know when Hoffman is going to be involved in a play. There were a few times that Scott Prince was moving on Hoffman from the moment of the play the ball, and on top of him as soon as he received the ball.

Second worst is the lines ran by the forwards. What happened to dummy runners? What happened to running at the defense in angles, committing defenders and opening holes for other players or the play maker to slip through? The best run all night was made by Petero at the end of the game FFS!

The above will no doubt contribute, but too many times does the ball die in Norman's and Wallace's hands. Wallace blew up a couple of times at his fringe runners, Thaiday and Te'o in particular. But they are also guilty of standing too flat to give themselves the room to take on the line at speed and put a player through a hole (if that player is actually there). The only players who regularly follow up on potential second phase plays are Wallace and Hunt when he's on the paddock. Norman's try is a textbook example of what we should be aiming for.

Last but not least, the captain... Wallace is the one doing all the talking on the field, Norman does chime in once in a blue moon, Petero and Parker bits and pieces and Thaiday... Only talks to the refs, and often only after one of our players blows up (often Parker or Wallace).

All of this can be fixed, and there can be many other factors influencing our performances of late, which is why I'm not giving up on this team. Besides, looking at the competition, only the Dogs are at their peak, and it's probably too early... Hopefully we'll peak towards the end of August and September, but to have any chance, we have to start winning games NOW!

TLDR: We have too much potential to give up, but the existing problems need to be addressed. In a professional organisation such as ours, it is not too much to ask for!

And people want Wallace dropped, he should nearly be captain.

 

[The Brizz]

Just saw Papalii score off a short ball ala what we throw over and over difference was they had two deep runners asking the defensive line big questions. McCrone held his pass til as late as possible and the guy marking Papalii (Robson I think) instinctively shifts to cover the deep runner opening a big hole for the short runner to score. Because they have options deep and play with pace the line doesn't rush up and holes are produced because deep players on different lines will always ask hard questions.

 

[Mr Fourex]

And people want Wallace dropped, he should nearly be captain.

Yeah.....that'd work well. :001_rolleyes:

He's the half back. It's his job to be doing all the talk.

Talking is one thing, what's he actually saying though.....?

cause whatever it is, it's not working.

Look, I'll concede that it's not all Peter Wallace. There are, as Porthoz has pointed out, a lot of things wrong with the team at the moment.

Ball runners aren't running good lines. Support play isn't where it needs to be. The whole structure of our attack is disorganised.

So either the players aren't putting what they do at training onto the paddock or the training needs to be modified / improved / rethought. If it's a case of the former and the players aren't talented enough to carry out game plans, then alternative plans have to be made or alternative players should be discussed.

 

[OXY-351]

He had a cracker at fullback round 1 last year. Or 2 years ago now? I think it could have been his NRL debut as well.

He played a good game at 5/8th once too, doesn't mean he's a good 5/8th though.

That's like saying Andrew Gee is a good 40/20 kicker.