Player Movements and Rumours 2012

[broncos4life]

The fact that Gagai isn't misbehaving at Newcastle, is because he moved to a place where he doesn't have his "buddies" to party with all night long before training or even games. Getting a starting NRL spot didn't hurt either.

I for one, am not willing to compromise on the club's standards and values for the sake of a talented kid with no clue about work ethic and professional conduct. Besides, the reason he didn't get the spot ahead of Copley was his behavior of the field for which he was warned numerous times, as well as even being dropped from Qcup. Instead of learning from that, he threw a tantrum and magnified the issue.

More than anything, Gagai needed a change of environment, which is what the Broncos and Hook recognised when they let him go.

Thank god, I was starting to think I was the only one that thought like this on here

 

[Big Pete]

In either case Big Pete, anyone that has a tantrum and starts missing training sessions because someone was promoted ahead of him has no place in a broncos jersey, regardless of talent.

The point I'm making is that the tantrum probably wouldn't have come about if Hook and him communicated better. If Bennett the game's most successful coach can put him into his starting side without a hitch then why couldn't Hook have him as first drop?

If Gagai was the lone example I'd be more willing to side with Hook but with Frei, Baptiste & Hunt looking elsewhere I'm beginning to think he isn't that good at producing talent.

One thing I will say and this will strengthen Hook's argument is that him and Gagai actually had a good history. Despite being completely out of his depth in 09, Hook persisted with Gagai in the NYC and was able to help him gain traction in this code. When Henjak was punted, the most noticeable change Hook made on the side was including Gagai infront of Kahu.

There's either more to the story or Hook just couldn't make it work with him.

THis whole, he missed trainings he should be axed! Really flies in my face when we look at the history of our captain and his off field exploits.

 

[broncos4life]

The point I'm making is that the tantrum probably wouldn't have come about if Hook and him communicated better. If Bennett the game's most successful coach can put him into his starting side without a hitch then why couldn't Hook have him as first drop?

If Gagai was the lone example I'd be more willing to side with Hook but with Frei, Baptiste & Hunt looking elsewhere I'm beginning to think he isn't that good at producing talent.

One thing I will say and this will strengthen Hook's argument is that him and Gagai actually had a good history. Despite being completely out of his depth in 09, Hook persisted with Gagai in the NYC and was able to help him gain traction in this code. When Henjak was punted, the most noticeable change Hook made on the side was including Gagai infront of Kahu.

There's either more to the story or Hook just couldn't make it work with him.

THis whole, he missed trainings he should be axed! Really flies in my face when we look at the history of our captain and his off field exploits.

Your still missing my point, the fact is he couldn't fit into the side because the positions were taken. Whether people like it or not copely was ahead of him and at that point of the season Hoffman was playing really well, so there was no where for him to fit in. Wayne could fit him into the side, not because WB is the second coming of christ but because with the exception of a few the knights backline was rubbish.

 

[Big Pete]

Then it boils down to whether Copley (and to an extent Beale) should have been infront of him.

IMO, no. We'll see why this season.

 

[broncos4life]

Then it boils down to whether Copley (and to an extent Beale) should have been infront of him.

IMO, no. We'll see why this season.

In my opinion Copley is and will continue to be a better centre/winger than Gagai. Gagai is probably a bit flash but IMO Copely is a harder worker and isn't afraid to run the ball up hard. But at the end of the day we both have our opinions. I said at the time, and still believe that when Beale said he was off to the dragons we should have placed him with Gagai, that is where the broncos f***ed up IMO

 

[Porthoz]

The point I'm making is that the tantrum probably wouldn't have come about if Hook and him communicated better. If Bennett the game's most successful coach can put him into his starting side without a hitch then why couldn't Hook have him as first drop?

If Gagai was the lone example I'd be more willing to side with Hook but with Frei, Baptiste & Hunt looking elsewhere I'm beginning to think he isn't that good at producing talent.

One thing I will say and this will strengthen Hook's argument is that him and Gagai actually had a good history. Despite being completely out of his depth in 09, Hook persisted with Gagai in the NYC and was able to help him gain traction in this code. When Henjak was punted, the most noticeable change Hook made on the side was including Gagai infront of Kahu.

There's either more to the story or Hook just couldn't make it work with him.

THis whole, he missed trainings he should be axed! Really flies in my face when we look at the history of our captain and his off field exploits.

What do Frei, Baptiste and Hunt have to do with it?
Gagai is the only guy who could arguably have taken a spot in the team at a certain point in time, when YY got injured. Frei was never in contention for even a bench spot and Hunt was ahead of Baptiste.

Copley got a chance and made the most of it, as did Maranta and Whitchurch when they got the opportunity. You can't say the same about Baptiste really, and Frei is way down on the pecking order, after D. Wallace, Whitchurch, Hala, Dodds, Lui, etc...

For a guy who's not that good at producing talent, Hook did pretty good with the Toyota cup side too.

And the comparison of ONE indiscretion by Thaiday with Gagai's continued behavior is way out of proportion.

 

[Big Pete]

What do Frei, Baptiste and Hunt have to do with it?

They're all players looking to get out of here/already left because they're not going to get given the opportunity they deserve.

Frei should have been ahead of Lui at the very least. If he's behind a player who isn't even at the club in Dan Wallace anymore than Hook is a worse judge of talent than I thought!

Baptiste is a much better hooker than Hunt and especially Capewell.

And I've already said my piece on Hunt in the halves.

And are we thinking of the same Whitchurch? The same guy who was HOOKED after 2 minutes in one of his two games in first grade? He had one solid game, and it wasn't as good as Baptiste's performance against Souths.

It's one thing to develop talent in the NYC, it's another to do so in first grade.

Thaiday's application at training when he was younger is well documented and his incident is far worse than anything we know about Gagai.

 

[broncos4life]

They're all players looking to get out of here/already left because they're not going to get given the opportunity they deserve.

Frei should have been ahead of Lui at the very least. If he's behind a player who isn't even at the club in Dan Wallace anymore than Hook is a worse judge of talent than I thought!

Baptiste is a much better hooker than Hunt and especially Capewell.

And I've already said my piece on Hunt in the halves.

And are we thinking of the same Whitchurch? The same guy who was HOOKED after 2 minutes in one of his two games in first grade? He had one solid game, and it wasn't as good as Baptiste's performance against Souths.

It's one thing to develop talent in the NYC, it's another to do so in first grade.

Thaiday's application at training when he was younger is well documented and his incident is far worse than anything we know about Gagai.

Mate Baptiste had one good game in all his first grade appearances, every other time he's been pretty ordinary, lets not get carried away. If our established first graders were leaving in droves, then yes, we should be concerned. These few that have left/leaving are doing so because the want to start and others are ahead of them, it's really not the start of the apocalypse

 

[Big Pete]

Nobody is saying it's the beginning of the apocalypse it's just a troubling development.

Preferring Baptiste, a natural hooker who killed it in QCup over two halves isn't exactly getting carried away.

I recall his performances against the Sharks & Raiders (2011, not 2012) impressed. To say he didn't make anything of his chance is a lie.

 

[broncos4life]

Nobody is saying it's the beginning of the apocalypse it's just a troubling development.

Preferring Baptiste, a natural hooker who killed it in QCup over two halves isn't exactly getting carried away.

I recall his performances against the Sharks & Raiders (2011, not 2012) impressed. To say he didn't make anything of his chance is a lie.

Yes but hunt was preferred to try and find a place for him in the team. At the end of the day I understand these guys have potential but what are you recommending? Put 21 guys on the field and hope the refs don't notice?

I like frei, but he is completely untested in first grade and we all know assuming NYC performance will carry over into nrl is troublesome

 

[Ari Gold]

Whilst the people leaving might not be established first graders it's still concerning on some fronts. The fact that we have continued to play Hunt as a bench hooker, over a specialist, be that Baptiste or otherwise, is a bit concerning. Not so much from the Baptiste side of things but it's basically taken Hunt out of position, dulling his development as a half whilst not really getting anything out of it as a bench hooker either.

 

[Porthoz]

I actually don't think they deserve more opportunity than they got. Does that make me a poor judge of talent?
Regardless, I certainly wouldn't put it out there that I'm a better judge of talent than professionals like Hook and the Broncos management if I happened to disagree with options taken by the club.

In the only game he played, Whitchurch was excellent imo. I'm certainly not going to hold 2 minutes in the Parra debacle against him!
But my opinion is based on what I've seen from the many Toyota cup games I've seen of both players, and Whitchurch is better than Frei. This goes for Lui, Hala, D. Wallace and Gibbs too btw. I just don't see anything particularly enticing about Frei...

Baptiste is stuck behind Macca and Hunt, who in turn is stuck behind Wallace and Norman, after he lost the battle for the five-eight spot in the 2012 pre-season. No one argued it at the time, but now with 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say anything...

If anything, Hook is too loyal to his players, as he showed with Norman and Hoffman.
Hunt should however have gotten Norman's spot after 3 or 4 of his horrid games. Other people think Wallace should've been hooked for Hunt during his crappiness patch, etc... But in all fairness, Hunt never really grabbed the few opportunities he had to demand a spot in the halves.

 

[Alec]

I find it funny how Whitchurch can be hooked based on 2 minutes, yet Wallace played about 320 consecutive minutes of absolutely abysmal footy, and Norman played possibly the worst 79 mins I've ever seen.

 

[Big Pete]

No, what would make you a poor judge of talent is preferring Dan Wallace over those players, you meant J. Wallace, I was pointing out your mistake. :001_tt2:

Bit selective to completely disregard a performance because it doesn't suit your argument. Also difficult to compare Frei & Whitchurch when they predominately played in the forwards & backs respectively. In the four games Whitchurch played in the forwards, he didn't achieve anything Frei already hadn't. I haven't seen anything in Lui since 2010, so I don't see what you see in him.

Baptiste shouldn't be behind Hunt though. I've been calling for Hunt to develop his playmaking skills in the QCup since 2010 so I don't see how that's hindsight at all. A lot of people were calling for Hunt to be given the first crack in the halves ahead of Norman on this very board but we were willing to stand by the halves pairing until they gave us reasons not too. And oh boy did they give us reasons. But we've been over the Hunt discussion a few times, both sides are well established so I'll leave it at that.

In fact, I'll stop droning on about this whole fringe player rant. No hard feelings but I feel like I've made my point clear and I don't want to drag this thread further down. I've enjoyed the discussion and particularly like reading both POVs as I feel we both made some fair points.

Alec - That was really bizarre from Hook. It was like he knew Whitchurch was in for one of those nights and just hooked him to protect him from himself. I'm sure Dixon wish he had have done the same thing in the Grand Final. Very strange though, another moment that could be argued either way that it was good or bad choice for that player's development.

 

[simmo77]

The real reason he is not misbehaving in Newy is because as I found out on the weekend, there is NOWHERE to get into trouble in Newcastle!!!

 

[Coxy]

Can we move on? This discussion about gagai is ga

 

[vertigo]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...thurstons-agenda/story-fn6ck6bj-1226523853031

Officials have met with JT, so sick of this pussyfooting around in the media just fucking sign him so we can win a premiership.

 

[Big Pete]

Why let the media rubber-neck and potentially spoil the deal?

Got to learn from GI.