SATIRE Pointless 'Gallen and Drug' Discussion

Huge said:
That's okay. You're another I control because my actions make you pour over my every post, my every word. I make you pay attention and you seem powerless to stop. Best part is, even though you are aware you're being manipulated you will continue to pay heed to my every utterance.
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What a fuckwit 😂
 
JAHHW said:
You’ve got everyone all figured out.
With such intellectual brilliance, it’s a wonder you’re not a billionaire and / or world leader.
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Aww shucks, so nice. I was not that ambitious though so I settled for millionaire and leader of forum mignons.
 
Brett said:
I'll admit from the outset here that I don't have all the facts for the arguments going on, but I will just comment on the first part of your reply there.

I don't think you fully grasp how much anabolic agents can do, especially for elite level athletes who have mostly exhausted all of their natural muscle gaining potential, and are only getting older with declining hormone levels and increased time to recovery, with a higher tendency for injuries. A "six week course", I'll assume you're referring to a PED course, can, and will, alter your body significantly, and forever. When you take an anabolic agent and train through any type of high muscle stimulant activity where muscle myonuclei are recruited, that myonuclei stays in the muscle forever - this has been studied and proven a number of times, so you can look it up. Just because Person X took a cycle of something for 6 weeks and was still a dud doesn't equal an argument - everyone responds differently to different compounds, and there's factors at play like diet, sleep, stress etc.

I see your argument there, and I can see where you're coming from, but you cannot deny that anabolic agents work just because a player didn't get better. A small amount of EPO for a player would make a monumental difference to their endurance - a small amount of testosterone would make a huge difference for endurance and muscle mass, etc.
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See, right here at the end you present a position I have never held. It's contained in your statement I quote now "but you cannot deny that anabolic agents work just because a player didn't get better". I have never claimed peds don't work, they most certainly do but they do not work in every case nor do they provide the same results for all users.

Another thing I said was the CLUB(s) didn't appear to gain an advantage from the course. Individually players may have but again, there's no evidence that they enjoyed any greater success after the course.

What many( most?) on here seem to forget is that Gallen was just one player amongst many. If there was a great benefit why weren't all the others high endurance athletes? Why weren't they all being talked about?

I mean, if the results were certain and repeated surely all of them would have burst onto the rep scene or started performing so highly they'd attract media attention?

I've never argued that the two clubs didn't break the rules, that players used or were administered banned substances or that the failure of the clubs to climb the league ladders meant they hadn't broken the rules. I just don't see any evidence the clubs gained much or any rewards for their illegal drug regime.
 
Huge said:
See, right here at the end you present a position I have never held. It's contained in your statement I quote now "but you cannot deny that anabolic agents work just because a player didn't get better". I have never claimed peds don't work, they most certainly do but they do not work in every case nor do they provide the same results for all users.

Another thing I said was the CLUB(s) didn't appear to gain an advantage from the course. Individually players may have but again, there's no evidence that they enjoyed any greater success after the course.

What many( most?) on here seem to forget is that Gallen was just one player amongst many. If there was a great benefit why weren't all the others high endurance athletes? Why weren't they all being talked about?

I mean, if the results were certain and repeated surely all of them would have burst onto the rep scene or started performing so highly they'd attract media attention?

I've never argued that the two clubs didn't break the rules, that players used or were administered banned substances or that the failure of the clubs to climb the league ladders meant they hadn't broken the rules. I just don't see any evidence the clubs gained much or any rewards for their illegal drug regime.
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How does being apparently awful at illegal doping, excuse them from doing so?

It’s illegal in sport. End of story, right?
 
Huge said:
See, right here at the end you present a position I have never held. It's contained in your statement I quote now "but you cannot deny that anabolic agents work just because a player didn't get better". I have never claimed peds don't work, they most certainly do but they do not work in every case nor do they provide the same results for all users.

Another thing I said was the CLUB(s) didn't appear to gain an advantage from the course. Individually players may have but again, there's no evidence that they enjoyed any greater success after the course.

What many( most?) on here seem to forget is that Gallen was just one player amongst many. If there was a great benefit why weren't all the others high endurance athletes? Why weren't they all being talked about?

I mean, if the results were certain and repeated surely all of them would have burst onto the rep scene or started performing so highly they'd attract media attention?

I've never argued that the two clubs didn't break the rules, that players used or were administered banned substances or that the failure of the clubs to climb the league ladders meant they hadn't broken the rules. I just don't see any evidence the clubs gained much or any rewards for their illegal drug regime.
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There's a lot of guys at local gyms who take shit tonnes of gear, who look like absolute shit. That doesn't mean that the drugs don't work, it means that the person using them is a fucken idiot. You can inject all the drugs you want, but if you don't put in the work and train hard, eat properly, sleep properly, and recover properly, then you will always look like a piece of shit and not get the benefit. I would also posit that nearly all elite level athletes with sponsorship money behind them, are taking some form of performance enhancing drug. It is mind-blowingly easy to get away with when you know what test they're using, so you know what they're testing for and what limits are allowable.

So I guess to that end what you're saying is technically true, but only on account of the fact that the end user is a plonker and not that the drugs don't work, because they do. They won't provide the same results for everyone either, that's very true. You can have someone like a Dorian Yates take a small amount of test and blow up like a balloon, but give the same dose to another bloke and the gains won't be the same.
 
Brett said:
When you take an anabolic agent and train through any type of high muscle stimulant activity where muscle myonuclei are recruited, that myonuclei stays in the muscle forever - this has been studied and proven a number of times, so you can look it up
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Brett, I took your advice and looked it up and found only one source, a Norwegian professor named Gundersun who made that claim back in 2013 based on some observations on mice.

I looked elsewhere and didn't find any corroboration for his hypothesis but did see his claim repeated a couple of times. I then looked to see if he had backed up his assertions with evidence on human subjects but didn't find anything. I'm not claiming he hasn't published anything conclusive just that I couldn't find it.

Asserting it's proven and indeed independently proven I don't think is likely true unless you have a link to something which proves it in the scientific sense.
 
I'm not really getting what this thread is for. Is it to defend Paul Gallen for taking a performance enhancing drug? If so, then there is no defending him. Did he take Peptides? Yes he did. Did he admit that he took them ? Yes he did. That makes him a self confessed drug cheat. Thats the long and short of it really, he is a self confessed drug cheat.
 
Jason Simmons said:
How does being apparently awful at illegal doping, excuse them from doing so?

It’s illegal in sport. End of story, right?
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Huh? Who claimed it excused anyone? Or is this yet another poster presenting a view I don't hold and have never stated?

Drugs are illegal in many places and some drugs are illegal in sport. Other peds are legal in rugby league.
 
Wolfie said:
I'm not really getting what this thread is for. Is it to defend Paul Gallen for taking a performance enhancing drug? If so, then there is no defending him. Did he take Peptides? Yes he did. Did he admit that he took them ? Yes he did. That makes him a self confessed drug cheat. Thats the long and short of it really, he is a self confessed drug cheat.
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Mmmmm, yep, you really don't know what it's about then! Nice of you to chip in with what everyone knows and has previously acknowledged but not sure why you did.

I have stated what's it's all about and of course most posters are enraged by views they themselves created. Most fall victim to some crazy notion that they must rearrange what's said, add some extra content, attribute it to me and then attack me for making such outlandish claims.

It generally starts with "so you're saying" or "in other words".
 
Huge said:
Brett, I took your advice and looked it up and found only one source, a Norwegian professor named Gundersun who made that claim back in 2013 based on some observations on mice.

I looked elsewhere and didn't find any corroboration for his hypothesis but did see his claim repeated a couple of times. I then looked to see if he had backed up his assertions with evidence on human subjects but didn't find anything. I'm not claiming he hasn't published anything conclusive just that I couldn't find it.

Asserting it's proven and indeed independently proven I don't think is likely true unless you have a link to something which proves it in the scientific sense.
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Here's one - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160183/

A video explaining the topic a bit too -

We all have a genetic limit to how much muscle we can build. There's a limit you can reach as a natural, then there's another limit as an enhanced athlete (drugs). When you work out as a natural athlete, you're going to hit your natural limit within about the first 5 years. If you then take drugs to go past that limit, you're going to gain muscle that was otherwise impossible to gain as a natural. That muscle can then stick around forever, even if you come off the drugs, when done properly. You won't keep it all, but you will keep some of it, and that some would've been impossible to gain in the first place without the drugs.
 
Wolfie said:
I'm not really getting what this thread is for. Is it to defend Paul Gallen for taking a performance enhancing drug? If so, then there is no defending him. Did he take Peptides? Yes he did. Did he admit that he took them ? Yes he did. That makes him a self confessed drug cheat. Thats the long and short of it really, he is a self confessed drug cheat.
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Post number 1 in the thread explains it nicely. No need to change anything, no need to rearrange my statement.
 
Brett said:
Here's one - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160183/

A video explaining the topic a bit too -

We all have a genetic limit to how much muscle we can build. There's a limit you can reach as a natural, then there's another limit as an enhanced athlete (drugs). When you work out as a natural athlete, you're going to hit your natural limit within about the first 5 years. If you then take drugs to go past that limit, you're going to gain muscle that was otherwise impossible to gain as a natural. That muscle can then stick around forever, even if you come off the drugs, when done properly. You won't keep it all, but you will keep some of it, and that some would've been impossible to gain in the first place without the drugs.
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Did you read what you quoted? I just read the first 15/17 odd pages and unless I'm mistaken it was concerned with long term high dosage ped use. I'm talking regimes from 6 months long and much longer. Neither of us are experts but I haven't seen anything yet which convinces me that a 6 week course will provide a lifelong benefit and even if it did it has absolutely no bearing on Gallens endurance performances from 6 years PRIOR!!!!!

Of course, that's in post 1 of this thread which I didn't start and didn't give a title.
 
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