Post Game Discussion - Round 9 - Penrith

[rnabokov]

It's the age old adage and it is very true: Strong defence wins premierships.

Scoring points on the platform laid by strong defence wins premierships.

And as Unbreakable posted, the goal line defence was great. The rest was ordinary. They made way too much ground nearly every set but lacked the class to finish it off. If they had someone like Shaun Johnson, they would ripped us apart.

Anyone think that defence would have won us the game against a team like the Roosters based on their game the other night is in fairyland.

Mr Fourex is so right: our line speed is crap, and we will be exposed for it against the top sides with quality halves and good finishers.

That, and using our back row, getting the momentum going with quick play the balls and moving the ball wide to our strike players is where our focus should lie.

 

[M.B.88]

Scoring points on the platform laid by strong defence wins premierships.

And as Unbreakable posted, the goal line defence was great. The rest was ordinary. They made way too much ground nearly every set but lacked the class to finish it off. If they had someone like Shaun Johnson, they would ripped us apart.

Anyone think that defence would have won us the game against a team like the Roosters based on their game the other night is in fairyland.

Mr Fourex is so right: our line speed is crap, and we will be exposed for it against the top sides with quality halves and good finishers.

That, and using our back row, getting the momentum going with quick play the balls and moving the ball wide to our strike players is where our focus should lie.

But our line speed against the top clubs so far have been roosters and Cowboys? And guess what. . Those nights it was on and we weren't exposed.. We won those games.

Not saying we are perfect right now but we are building the right platform to win more games than we lose.

Right now we are working for each other and putting in good team performances. That's a great place to build from and that's what we've lacked for a few years now without a master coach distilling self belief

 

[Mitch06]

Hunt positioned himself so well off the play the ball, the pass passes three defenders to get to him!!

 

[Big Pete]

When you win a game like that, I think you need to give yourself at least 24 hours to get over the elation because that's the type of feeling that's often eluded us the past few seasons.

Having let it all died down, I've got to say that Friday's game was a quality contest.

Sure neither side threw a lot at each other but just the speed of play was unreal and it really goes to show where Rugby League is going and how exciting it can be.

End to end action, good defence and plenty of skill on display. Even if you were a neutral, you'd have to get engrossed in this one.

I didn't think there was a lot separating either side. I think the Panthers made the most of what they had, but it simply wasn't enough and the Broncos close to full-strength were just too much of a handful. Not the best performance from the Broncos at that end, but they're a better team than the 2014 model and just had too much going on for them to handle.

Still think there's plenty of room for improvement. Line-speed was an issue but I think that comes down to initial contact which seemed a little passive, we weren't winning rucks like we had been so they were able to bounce off tackles get quick play the balls and had the Broncos on the back-foot quite early in sets. That's where the Broncos really missed Thaiday and Dodds - especially when the likes of Ofahengaue and Wallace came on. They just don't compare defensively.

Passing continues to be bit of an issue and some of the initial rucks were a bit soft. As a result, there isn't a lot of energy around the ruck although with that said, I didn't think McCullough did enough to really force the issue much.

In fact, I thought for the most part, the spine weren't really on. It was one of Milford's better games but he's still got plenty of room for improvement and Hunt is still very raw in certain places.

One of the big talking points heading into the game was the selection of Jack Reed. Now, I wanted Copley in myself but I've got to say, Jack really did a good job of coming up with important tackles, made some good rucks and even got some good offloads away. The biggest complaint I had was his inability to link up with Maranta but then I think Maranta's positioning was a little off too and he was either standing too flat or too close making him easy pickings for the scrambling defence. That's stuff they can work on, but I thought it was a real underrated performance by Reed.

 

[rnabokov]

But our line speed against the top clubs so far have been roosters and Cowboys? And guess what. . Those nights it was on and we weren't exposed.. We won those games.

Not saying we are perfect right now but we are building the right platform to win more games than we lose.

Right now we are working for each other and putting in good team performances. That's a great place to build from and that's what we've lacked for a few years now without a master coach distilling self belief

Exactly, we won those games because defensively we were on the front foot, and the Cowboys are a much better team than we played last time.

As BP posted, we did miss the defensive front foot that Thaiday and Dodds provide. We need it.

And I agree with what else you say. This team is still evolving, and doing it really well so far.

 

[Splinter]

When you win a game like that, I think you need to give yourself at least 24 hours to get over the elation because that's the type of feeling that's often eluded us the past few seasons.

Having let it all died down, I've got to say that Friday's game was a quality contest.

Sure neither side threw a lot at each other but just the speed of play was unreal and it really goes to show where Rugby League is going and how exciting it can be.

End to end action, good defence and plenty of skill on display. Even if you were a neutral, you'd have to get engrossed in this one.

I didn't think there was a lot separating either side. I think the Panthers made the most of what they had, but it simply wasn't enough and the Broncos close to full-strength were just too much of a handful. Not the best performance from the Broncos at that end, but they're a better team than the 2014 model and just had too much going on for them to handle.

Still think there's plenty of room for improvement. Line-speed was an issue but I think that comes down to initial contact which seemed a little passive, we weren't winning rucks like we had been so they were able to bounce off tackles get quick play the balls and had the Broncos on the back-foot quite early in sets. That's where the Broncos really missed Thaiday and Dodds - especially when the likes of Ofahengaue and Wallace came on. They just don't compare defensively.

Passing continues to be bit of an issue and some of the initial rucks were a bit soft. As a result, there isn't a lot of energy around the ruck although with that said, I didn't think McCullough did enough to really force the issue much.

In fact, I thought for the most part, the spine weren't really on. It was one of Milford's better games but he's still got plenty of room for improvement and Hunt is still very raw in certain places.

One of the big talking points heading into the game was the selection of Jack Reed. Now, I wanted Copley in myself but I've got to say, Jack really did a good job of coming up with important tackles, made some good rucks and even got some good offloads away. The biggest complaint I had was his inability to link up with Maranta but then I think Maranta's positioning was a little off too and he was either standing too flat or too close making him easy pickings for the scrambling defence. That's stuff they can work on, but I thought it was a real underrated performance by Reed.

Completely agree
It irritates me when people say we didn't deserve to win. I would prefer to say Penrith didn't deserve to lose but then neither did we. Unfortunately someone invariably does lose.
Maranta seems to be stationary waiting for the ball on the wing instead of getting it on the move, something he does okay when playing fullback

 

[heartly87]

For me saying reed is like hoggman is a bit of a straw man argument. The thing is a 5/ 8 is ment to feed the ball to his outside backs a centre is there to hit holes and create space for the wing or drop him under. I dont think miranta has his positioning down yet and does not give reed theoption of cutting him back in field. Iwill point out that when hoggy was on the wing reed put him over for a number of tries and often linked him the ball. Isee this as aconfidence issue on both reed and mirantas part

 

[ningnangnong]

Some interesting stats that may have gone unnoticed on Friday night:

Josh McGuire
17 runs for 158m
48 tackles

Alex Glenn
16 runs for 120m
42 tackles

Corey Parker
18 runs for 141m
43 tackles

Love our forward pack.

Take a look at these stats off the bench for Penrith though - they back up the notion that the Panthers were making easy metres.

Jeremy Latimore - 47 mins
18 runs for 175m

Reagan Campbell-Gillard - 43 mins
16 runs for 179m

 

[Brett]

One thing I've noticed with Reed, and please tell me if you've noticed it too, is that he will often let his man get on the outside of him, only to cut him down in a grassing tackle, making himself look better. The problem is, that by letting his man get on the outside of him, his opposite has made an extra 10-15m before he's tackled.

I don't know if it's something Bennett has told him to do and it's part of the slide defense structure, but it's just something I've noticed.

 

[M.B.88]

One thing I've noticed with Reed, and please tell me if you've noticed it too, is that he will often let his man get on the outside of him, only to cut him down in a grassing tackle, making himself look better. The problem is, that by letting his man get on the outside of him, his opposite has made an extra 10-15m before he's tackled.

I don't know if it's something Bennett has told him to do and it's part of the slide defense structure, but it's just something I've noticed.

Lol! It's not to make himself "look better" its about stopping his opposite number and damn it works. . Gets them in a false sense of security thinning they've broken the line

 

[Brett]

Lol! It's not to make himself "look better" its about stopping his opposite number and damn it works. . Gets them in a false sense of security thinning they've broken the line

What? That makes no sense to me... Let someone run around you to gain a heap of meters, then tackle them around the legs and let them get a quick play the ball?

 

[Cult]

They don't get anywhere near an extra 10-15 metres around him though. Also it really isn't Maranta's fault he has no room and has to step inside. Reed backs himself every single time and get's tackled one on one whilst the winger has time to move out and defend on Maranta and it also leaves him with no room on the outside.

 

[Unbreakable]

I'm not a fan of what Reed offers at left centre, but in saying that, Copley is a hog as well, his passing game is virtually non-existent from the time I've watched him, I think the only person on our roster not named Hodges or Boyd who could adequately draw a defender and put a winger over in the corner is Kahu.

In terms of having the ability to finish off sweeping plays on both sides of the field I think our best back 5 would be something like..

1. Boyd
2. <Insert good finisher> (Dale Copley?) (Carlin Anderson?)
3. Kahu
4. Hodges (c)
5. Maranta

 

[Astro]

I'm not a fan of what Reed offers at left centre, but in saying that, Copley is a hog as well, his passing game is virtually non-existent from the time I've watched him, I think the only person on our roster not named Hodges or Boyd who could adequately draw a defender and put a winger over in the corner is Kahu.

In terms of having the ability to finish off sweeping plays on both sides of the field I think our best back 5 would be something like..

1. Boyd
2. <Insert good finisher> (Dale Copley?) (Carlin Anderson?)
3. Kahu
4. Hodges (c)
5. Maranta

I like oates on the wing, I think he can become an absolute weapon out there with kahu on the inside of him. And I really do like kahu in the centres. From the times he swapped with hodgo those couple of passes that put Maranta away were perfect. Haven't seen out centres do that for what seems a very long time.

Kahu oates for the left hand edge +1.


Other edge I'm happy with hodgo Maranta. He's shown a few times this year that he can finish off the simple stuff and hodgo will actually pass. I've said it before but against Panthers Maranta was in 3 times untouched if Reed passes. (though I think one was from Glenn not passing)

 

[heartly87]

Big pete i noticed this also but something tells me that his right shoulder is no good. He often misses on this side and goes handsy instead of making contact with the shoulder. I think he is making a calculated decision to give them a sniff to lead them to the left shoulder in which he is confident of making the tackle.

 

[Ari Gold]

Reed and Maranta together has to be the slowest centre/wing pairing in our history. I don't like the idea of them together as it makes our attack rather impotent and if there is a kick put in behind them there's a great chance for the opposition to regather.

 

[john1420]

Not a pretty win, but a tough and gritty win

More than that, it was a deserved win

Brisbane were the better team, not perfect of course, but they were better than Penrith

The other team could not cross the stripe, and that says it all

 

[Big Pete]

heartly87 - I think you were after Brett but on Reed/Hoffman, if you can recall, Reed was actually publicly criticised for ignoring Hoffman initially. It took him until the Round 4 clash against Melbourne to really develop a combination with Josh and that's when they became our go to guys for a few weeks.

I can see the Maranta/Reed combination getting better as time goes by.

You could be onto something about trusting his left shoulder more. Personally, I think it comes down to line-speed and how they're usually on the outside when he's coming out of the defence. If he tries to remedy that by racing out, it can just create gaps and you wouldn't want that. You'd rather take the quick play the ball in that sort of situation.

Ari - I'm genuinely interested to know who's faster between Maranta, Vidot and Oates.