NEWS Rival's $1.5 million raid on boom Bronco

[johnny plath]

Times aren't changing enough that we can throw a good amount of the salary cap at kids. It's pure stupidity. For a start, as has been mentioned, it creates a leadership vacuum. If we break the bank to keep flegler, Fifita ( who is already on more money than players who have achieved more ), Carrigan, Sua, Paix, Boyd and Haas it's not going to leave us much wiggle room to keep some of the players we can rely on. Let these players prove themselves first. If they think the grass is greener elsewhere and if they want to chase the big dollars I say we let them do it. It will backfire on us big time if we start throwing decent coin at players without them earning it.

I don't think people are saying throw money at every one but seriously if people can't see that Sua and Haas are the goods and part of our future something is amiss. They need to be locked up along with TPJ. No arguments about the rest of the 'kids', but seriously if we lose these three, arses need to be reemed. Its time to move on from the we are the Broncos and if you don't like it leave attitude, and see that we need to compete as much as the next team, if not more, because if you hadn't noticed there's quite a lot of players from brisbane and surrounds not playing for the Broncos.

 

[Wolfie]

I don't think people are saying throw money at every one but seriously if people can't see that Sua and Haas are the goods and part of our future something is amiss. They need to be locked up along with TPJ. No arguments about the rest of the 'kids', but seriously if we lose these three, arses need to be reemed. Its time to move on from the we are the Broncos and if you don't like it leave attitude, and see that we need to compete as much as the next team, if not more, because if you hadn't noticed there's quite a lot of players from brisbane and surrounds not playing for the Broncos.

Nobody isnt saying they arent potentially quality, but you shouldnt just go handing out big contracts. Why does Haas for example deserve a bigger, better contract than Carrigan who has proved himself to be equally as good? Contracts should be given out on what you are doing, not what you might do in the future. Then should be earned.

 

[Foordy]

I don't think people are saying throw money at every one but seriously if people can't see that Sua and Haas are the goods and part of our future something is amiss. They need to be locked up along with TPJ. No arguments about the rest of the 'kids', but seriously if we lose these three, arses need to be reemed. Its time to move on from the we are the Broncos and if you don't like it leave attitude, and see that we need to compete as much as the next team, if not more, because if you hadn't noticed there's quite a lot of players from brisbane and surrounds not playing for the Broncos.

So how much should we pay for these young guns ... let's take Haas as an example. rumours are that he will be offered 700k a seasons. should we match that for a guy who has played 2 first grade games? ... and then what if he gets offered more than that should we just keep matching until we win his signature ....

I'll tell you where doing that leads ... it leads to us free falling down the NRL ladder for a long time ... the Tigers are just now recovering from doing that for Moses and Brooks

 

[Wolfie]

You forgot Bird. You are kidding yourself if you think he won't be around next year and beyond. To retain the likes of S'ua, Flegler, Lodge etc, players like Sims, Opacic and even **Oates and various second stringers are unlikely to be around next year as you simply cannot keep everyone. The young forwards need to be contracted and need to be paid well as these guys will ensure that the Broncos are at the top of the heap for a decade or so. It may mean that a couple fan favorites are lost along the way but it will be beneficial long term.

I think we could handle losing players like Sims, alongside Tagatese and Thiaday as we have enough cover. We can play with a prop rotation, if we keep them, of Lodge, TPJ, Moose, and Offa, supplemented by Carrigan, Flegler and Haas. I'm not so sure we can afford to lose Oates and even blokes like Opacic. The only other option to those is the injury prone Kahu. We just dont have the players there pushing for selection. Seve hasnt really got close, Shibasaki is coming along but probably more suited to the wing and Pearson doesnt take his chances despite performing in ISC.

 

[johnny plath]

You do have to be calculated in who you keep, but you just cant throw them all in at once or keep them all. Its inevitable we will lose players.

I also dont think as both a club and a fan base we are patient enough to take the ups and downs it would take to develop so many young players.

Yes, we will lose players, just shouldn't be TPJ, Sua, or Haas. They've all shown enough to be value long term investments, and should be treated that way when contracts are being negoiated.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, we will lose players, just shouldn't be TPJ, Sua, or Haas. They've all shown enough to be value long term investments, and should be treated that way when contracts are being negoiated.

Difference though with them being long term investments, and what we pay them. TPJ has shown he can have a lot of impact over a period of time now, the other 2 haven't. We still have a salary cap to balance.

 

[johnny plath]

Sua to me is worth probably around the 150k-200k a year mark in all honesty, but no denying the market is inflated so i'd say we should be looking at around the 300k-350k mark probably. Its all about incentivising deals in favour of the player. Get them performing, and upgrade their contracts. We dont want to become the club who pays overs to players without them earning it, but we do want to be the club who pays well for players who deserve it.

I know we are going to lose players, but my issue right now is our recruitment at all levels. Why are we stacked with some many good young forwards, but we dont have the backs? Why are we wasting 10 million a week ( or what ever it is ) playing Bird in the centers when Opacic or Kahu would do just as good a job for a lot less, Or signing up aging players to long contracts like Boyd. We have the core of a good side, i'm pretty sure with some changes and better recruitment we could have a much better one. There is no doubt in my mind we are in big danger of losing at least 4 or 5 players. I just hope we can be persuasive in our contract negotiations, but at the same time you cant blame players for chasing the money.

Are you fucking serious. I don't know your role at Broncos Wolfie, but I hope its not retention. Sua is quality, you don't need to be a highly paid club recruiter to see that. This is the attitude that is fucking us... paying overs for crap, and trying to pay unders for quality. Also your love for tom is bordering on obsessive, and I apologise if he's family, but seriously he is out of his depth in NRL. No argument he busts a gut, tries hard, and gives it everything.. but reality is not everyone is NRL standard and comparing him to an injured out of form Bird is just disingenuous.

 

[Foordy]

Are you fucking serious. I don't know your role at Broncos Wolfie, but I hope its not retention. Sua is quality, you don't need to be a highly paid club recruiter to see that. This is the attitude that is fucking us... paying overs for crap, and trying to pay unders for quality. Also your love for tom is bordering on obsessive, and I apologise if he's family, but seriously he is out of his depth in NRL. No argument he busts a gut, tries hard, and gives it everything.. but reality is not everyone is NRL standard and comparing him to an injured out of form Bird is just disingenuous.

on the other side of the coin, if you were recruiting, we'd be luck to get 20 players under the cap ....

On Opacic, he is a solid NRL standard player, who doesn't cost a fortune ... you can't have million dollar superstars in every position

 

[Wolfie]

Are you fucking serious. I don't know your role at Broncos Wolfie, but I hope its not retention. Sua is quality, you don't need to be a highly paid club recruiter to see that. This is the attitude that is fucking us... paying overs for crap, and trying to pay unders for quality. Also your love for tom is bordering on obsessive, and I apologise if he's family, but seriously he is out of his depth in NRL. No argument he busts a gut, tries hard, and gives it everything.. but reality is not everyone is NRL standard and comparing him to an injured out of form Bird is just disingenuous.

I'm deadly serious. I'd love to keep Sua. I'm not even looking to pay unders for Sua, i want to pay what he is worth, and i feel realistically, for a player who has achieved nothing yet, 150k-200k should be what he is paid. But as i said following that, the market is inflated. so i dont see paying 300-350k for a player who has proved nothing is fair. If he gets better, you upgrade him. I havent once said pay overs for crap and pay unders for quality. Pay them the contracts their performances warrant. You do have a little wiggle room factoring in potential, but you dont throw 500k + a year at blokes who havent done a thing yet.

As for the Opacic thing, he isnt family, there is no love or obsessiveness there, but you would have to be blind to think Bird has outperformed him this year in the centers. One is on probably under 150k a year, the other is on about 750k from reports. There isnt 600k worth of value difference in their performances in the centers. Same with Kahu, he would be on a lot less than Bird, yet wouldnt have performed any worse. You are kidding yourself big time if you think there is.

Also, i think if 4 grand final winning coaches think Tom is good enough, then i'd say he is good enough.

 

[johnny plath]

So how much should we pay for these young guns ... let's take Haas as an example. rumours are that he will be offered 700k a seasons. should we match that for a guy who has played 2 first grade games? ... and then what if he gets offered more than that should we just keep matching until we win his signature ....

I'll tell you where doing that leads ... it leads to us free falling down the NRL ladder for a long time ... the Tigers are just now recovering from doing that for Moses and Brooks

Not sure to be honest because no-one knows how much caps available, but more than the 200k that wolfie suggested for Sua. I'll have a go at a big picture spread of where our salary cap goes, but only based on whats in media. Maybe someone in the know could do the same with some ball park figures. As it is we all just guess really and would be sad if we really have fucked up the whole cap for next year and beyond. But we can't just take this shit attitude of take it or leave it... Sua and Haas have shown enough imo to be paid fairly, if not slight overs, the others who haven't cracked nrl are a different kettle of fish for sure.

 

[Wolfie]

on the other side of the coin, if you were recruiting, we'd be luck to get 20 players under the cap ....

On Opacic, he is a solid NRL standard player, who doesn't cost a fortune ... you can't have million dollar superstars in every position

I dont for one moment think Tom is a superstar, he isnt, my point was We are probably paying Bird 600k a year more for no better performance.

 

[Wolfie]

Not sure to be honest because no-one knows how much caps available, but more than the 200k that wolfie suggested for Sua. I'll have a go at a big picture spread of where our salary cap goes, but only based on whats in media. Maybe someone in the know could do the same with some ball park figures. As it is we all just guess really and would be sad if we really have fucked up the whole cap for next year and beyond. But we can't just take this shit attitude of take it or leave it... Sua and Haas have shown enough imo to be paid fairly, if not slight overs, the others who haven't cracked nrl are a different kettle of fish for sure.

You obviously dont read mate because i said 300-350k. My first comment was what i personally think unproven players should get. The 300-350k was what i think the inflated value currently should be. You cant really think Haas after about 40 minutes of NRL is worth 700k or even 500k. There is paying slight overs, and then there is pure stupidity.

 

[pagey]

Nobody isnt saying they arent potentially quality, but you shouldnt just go handing out big contracts. Why does Haas for example deserve a bigger, better contract than Carrigan who has proved himself to be equally as good? Contracts should be given out on what you are doing, not what you might do in the future. Then should be earned.

Is haas not younger than carrigan ? By all reports haas does all the things he should be doing as a professional, consistency comes with age.
Clubs pay bigger money for potential these days and that's fact, i don't agree with it as it adds pressure but it's reality.
Haas may not be better than carrigan now but he looks to have a higher ceiling hence the bigger offers. Im not saying he will be better because i rate carrigan also and hope he can get a spot aswell.

 

[Foordy]

Not sure to be honest because no-one knows how much caps available, but more than the 200k that wolfie suggested for Sua. I'll have a go at a big picture spread of where our salary cap goes, but only based on whats in media. Maybe someone in the know could do the same with some ball park figures. As it is we all just guess really and would be sad if we really have fucked up the whole cap for next year and beyond. But we can't just take this shit attitude of take it or leave it... Sua and Haas have shown enough imo to be paid fairly, if not slight overs, the others who haven't cracked nrl are a different kettle of fish for sure.

he suggested a figure for Su'A of 300-350k in the current market ...

but for Haas. 500-700k is much more than "slight overs", we likely can't and shouldn't get close to that money.

 

[Wolfie]

Is haas not younger than carrigan ? By all reports haas does all the things he should be doing as a professional, consistency comes with age.
Clubs pay bigger money for potential these days and that's fact, i don't agree with it as it adds pressure but it's reality.
Haas may not be better than carrigan now but he looks to have a higher ceiling hence the bigger offers. Im not saying he will be better because i rate carrigan also and hope he can get a spot aswell.

Yep, i think Pat is older than Haas. i think about a year difference iirc, but i just dont see a lot between them. Haas is more hyped, probably because of his athletic ability and size more than his ability at the moment in all honesty, but at the moment i think they are on a par with each other. I really just dont see how any club in their right mind would throw 700k at a player like Haas. Ponga has done well, but he really is the exception in terms of big money for potential.

 

[Accept]

he suggested a figure for Su'A of 300-350k in the current market ...

but for Haas. 500-700k is much more than "slight overs", we likely can't and shouldn't get close to that money.

Haas is currently tagged by everyone in the know as a future superstar. If possible, you pay whatever you can to keep him on your books. In the NBA, MLB, NHL etc, high drafts picks are paid millions in signing bonuses. Obviously, paying big money for potential is a risky venture in RL due to the physicality of the sport but the Broncos need to pay Haas whatever he desires. If they can't or choose not to, then he would be wise to go somewhere where they will. I hope he doesn't but if I were him, I'd be chasing the money even if it takes me to Canberra.

 

[Wolfie]

he suggested a figure for Su'A of 300-350k in the current market ...

but for Haas. 500-700k is much more than "slight overs", we likely can't and shouldn't get close to that money.

Thing is though, if we managed our cap better, we could easily upgrade Sua if he comes in and absolutely tears it up. My worry still is with the young guys, and we have seen it already this year with a few of them, is their form goes up and down and they get crucified when it does. I'll risk getting abused again :D but Tom has copped it, Issako has copped it, Nikorima has copped it and its happened to others in the past while they are developing. They are learning and they make mistakes. If as a fan base we cant deal with that then the kids wont have a good environment to develop.

 

[Wolfie]

Haas is currently tagged by everyone in the know as a future superstar. If possible, you pay whatever you can to keep him on your books. In the NBA, MLB, NHL etc, high drafts picks are paid millions in signing bonuses. Obviously, paying big money for potential is a risky venture in RL due to the physicality of the sport but the Broncos need to pay Haas whatever he desires. If they can't or choose not to, then he would be wise to go somewhere where they will. I hope he doesn't but if I were him, I'd be chasing the money even if it takes me to Canberra.

I cant say i know a lot about NBA etc, but do they have cap restrictions? I know it goes on in the EPL in England. The big clubs pay out for the best players because there is no restriction on it.