NEWS Rival's $1.5 million raid on boom Bronco

[1910]

If you've spent your teens actually playing for an NRL club or an affiliate or you ever actually show up to an NRL clubs training session you're their junior and should fit under their junior bracket, not the team that gives you a contract at 13 to wear their polo shirt and never even step foot on a training paddock with them. Nobody gives a shit about your infatuation with bush league footy clubs who don't benefit from cap concessions and this situation wouldn't involve them at all.

Your constant shitting on who the Broncos made into first grade rugby league players is getting ridiculous at this point. We get it, you like to give local clubs credit but why do they matter when it comes to cap concessions?

First of all plenty of people care about football below NRL.

If you- in the wider sense I mean want to debate cap concessions for something involving juniors then it would help to have the definition of juniors under control.

If you want concessions for juniors the Sydney clubs like Penrith will laugh and take it with glee- Penrith have 26 junior clubs with 633 teams.

Penrith played the Tigers last year and had eight local juniors and five developed players. There is a difference. 24 of their squad of 30 never played for another NRL team. That's a great blend of development and juniors.

The whole junior thing belonging to an NRL club is a NSWRL thing- lines on a map from when it was all divided up and you had your area. Broncos and Queensland have never been run like that.

You are a junior for your junior club Cairns Kangaroos or where you play from under 6 to under 16. You can't play Under 8's for the Broncos.

The Broncos can pour millions into development and schools and clubs and EPDP but that still doesn't equal juniors.

The wording of juniors would harm the Broncos not help which would be exact opposite of what old mate wants I suspect. If you want it to be developed players than the Broncos come back into the fight.

Gillett- 15 years old
McCullough-13
Mcguire-17

That's development: but still scouted from Dalby Devils, Norths Devils and Redcliffe so not juniors.

 

[1910]

Fifita has big wraps, yet i think in the finals games he just played he was pretty ordinary. Haas gets all the hype, yet at every step in his Broncos career Carrigan has pretty much matched him and also been as good if not better ( just imo of course ) in ISC. Because he isnt media hyped he doesnt get the same wraps.

I agree with your point totally ( if im not reading it wrong ), what are people basing this faith in our young players on? I'm convinced a lot of it is just hype around them rather than watching them play.

Yeah that is what I am getting at, I don't understand how you can say let Glenn go for player X yet you haven't watched player X. That doesn't seem too informed to me.

Generally if you have a young team you have to take a hit and spend a few years down. You can do it with minimal disruption if you're smart and plan. Hawks did it in the AFL- Three four time premiership players out because they could bring in younger guys and start planning but they missed the finals last year. Things are now on the up this year so a one year down would be pretty remarkable.

You move on a 30 year old when you're sure he's done and you can't ignore the form of the younger player anymore. You don't just move them on because this guy might maybe be good in five years. That's a big gap.

The chances of failing comes in as well- if you move on four guys for four young guys those four young guys will have varying careers from two NRL games, to 200 NRL games. One batch have four champions is pretty slim.

How many of the Broncos 2008 development are still here? McCullough, Gillett and McGuire? That's plenty that aren't. Like I said earlier I feel the Broncos have been here before with Webcke, Thorn and Petero- all for Clinton, Sims, Setu and Anderson.

 

[Cult]

First of all plenty of people care about football below NRL.

If you- in the wider sense I mean want to debate cap concessions for something involving juniors then it would help to have the definition of juniors under control.

If you want concessions for juniors the Sydney clubs like Penrith will laugh and take it with glee- Penrith have 26 junior clubs with 633 teams.

Penrith played the Tigers last year and had eight local juniors and five developed players. There is a difference. 24 of their squad of 30 never played for another NRL team. That's a great blend of development and juniors.

The whole junior thing belonging to an NRL club is a NSWRL thing- lines on a map from when it was all divided up and you had your area. Broncos and Queensland have never been run like that.

You are a junior for your junior club Cairns Kangaroos or where you play from under 6 to under 16. You can't play Under 8's for the Broncos.

The Broncos can pour millions into development and schools and clubs and EPDP but that still doesn't equal juniors.

The wording of juniors would harm the Broncos not help which would be exact opposite of what old mate wants I suspect. If you want it to be developed players than the Broncos come back into the fight.

Gillett- 15 years old
McCullough-13
Mcguire-17

That's development: but still scouted from Dalby Devils, Norths Devils and Redcliffe so not juniors.

Penrith are one of the clubs who deserve to benefit from developing players as well. The definition should absolutely be under control but I think you already understand what people have meant. You making the same comment every time someone says Broncos junior when talking about a player who has been at the club since their teens is ridiculous. All they mean is a player who started with us and never left us. Like the players from our NYC teams who have never played for another club. They'd be the players who would fit under the concession. Until Matt Gillett wants to return to Bribie Island and they make a request to the NRL about a concession to fit him under whatever their salary cap is, their junior club isn't relevant to this conversation. You're arguing semantics instead of the actual point because you like to show everyone how in the know you are.

 

[pagey]

Why are you so sure they're NRL ready? What games has convinced you they're big money 30 games a year NRL players as of November?

Same can be said about ponga but alot of people think he is origin ready. Im just saying sometimes you need to take a punt if you think they can transition easily. So many big name signings with big contracts don't work either , but when they become available and you think they can do the job , you take the chance. Nothing is ever certain but you still need to take a chance sometimes.

 

[Wolfie]

Same can be said about ponga but alot of people think he is origin ready. Im just saying sometimes you need to take a punt if you think they can transition easily. So many big name signings with big contracts don't work either , but when they become available and you think they can do the job , you take the chance. Nothing is ever certain but you still need to take a chance sometimes.

You do have to be calculated in who you keep, but you just cant throw them all in at once or keep them all. Its inevitable we will lose players.

I also dont think as both a club and a fan base we are patient enough to take the ups and downs it would take to develop so many young players.

 

[BroncsFan]

I also dont think as both a club and a fan base we are patient enough to take the ups and downs it would take to develop so many young players.

I think this is the main thing. To me we are clearly in a rebuilding phase.

The forward pack is transitioning into a young core base, milf is looking to develop into an all round dominate playmaker (which is what he needs to do for his own development), young outside backs (I dare say Roberts is the oldest??).

Yet there are calls Pearce (29) Hodkinson (30?) and Cronk (34). To me those kind of signings are for the here and now but I see this team building into a very strong team.

The key link to all of this is the development of Milf and I can see the signs of him becoming a great player... to me the massive improvement in his kicking game shows he has an ability to improve aspects of his game (short kicking last year, long kicking this year).

He just needs recognise that he also has to play eyes up footy and have a real willingness to take it on from first receiver and he probably becomes the best playmaker of his generation

 

[Maddy1to9]

1. Boyd – send in retirement & get Kahu/Isaako
2. Oats – sign him on moderate pay (overs of wingers pay & less than backrowers pay)
3. Roberts – put him on the left side for good & give him freedom to roam
4. Isaako/kahu – lock either 1 of them to the wing
5. Opacic – lock him & smack him until he become much quicker
6. Milford – he’s learning but make him do that more
7. Someone other than Kodi – PLEASE get us a game manager (perhaps Dargan/Nona/SOMEONE)
8. Lodge – he needs huge upgrade & unfortunately we can’t provide him so, get Fai/Carrigan/Lodge if we are lucky
9. Andrew – only 1 thing I ask of him is faster around the ruck PLEASE
10. McGuire – keep doing what you’re doing BUT in front row
11. Glenn/Sua - keep doing what you’re doing with more grunt
12. Gillet/Sua – Strong defence & more grunt
13. TPJ – Please show the way for rest of team & be our Captain
14. Kodi – don’t need more than 15 – 20 min tops at hooker & zip through every hole you find in attack
15. Haas – You’re our Webcke & Petro clone. Standup to that
16. Offa – keep doing what you’re doing with more grunt & will be in starting lineup soon
17. Sims - keep doing what you’re doing (it’s a jackpot for us if you do so)

These are my 17, I want be in the team next year (maybe this year too).

Keep developing these guys & give’e, a crack at 1st grade who ever deserves
18. Flegler
19. Mago
20. Savilio
21. Pearson - purely as an optional backup on the wings
22. Fifita
23. Boyd
24. Paix
25. Niu
26. Riki
27.
28.
29.
30.

27-30 are anyone whom we find would suit best for us & develop them. This way we move on some & manage our cap a lot wiser & can possibly hold on to the guys we want to.

 

[broncos4life]

I also dont think as both a club and a fan base we are patient enough to take the ups and downs it would take to develop so many young players.

I can guarantee this. After their first shocker that is part of their development it will be “get rid of him” “makes Maranta look good” “what is wrong with our development system?” “Thrown in to early” “Sack Boyd and Bennett”.

 

[Huge]

Penrith are one of the clubs who deserve to benefit from developing players as well. The definition should absolutely be under control but I think you already understand what people have meant. You making the same comment every time someone says Broncos junior when talking about a player who has been at the club since their teens is ridiculous. All they mean is a player who started with us and never left us. Like the players from our NYC teams who have never played for another club. They'd be the players who would fit under the concession. Until Matt Gillett wants to return to Bribie Island and they make a request to the NRL about a concession to fit him under whatever their salary cap is, their junior club isn't relevant to this conversation. You're arguing semantics instead of the actual point because you like to show everyone how in the know you are.

That's not how I read his comments. He keeps us informed and rarely is it emotion charged crap like so many others spew forth.

 

[pagey]

You do have to be calculated in who you keep, but you just cant throw them all in at once or keep them all. Its inevitable we will lose players.

I also dont think as both a club and a fan base we are patient enough to take the ups and downs it would take to develop so many young players.

Never said we can keep all of them but we need a hard running, hard hitting backrower . Gillett nor glenn are that , sua is .
We have lost a lot of players over the past few years, so it's time to hold onto one of our special talents.

 

[Wolfie]

Never said we can keep all of them but we need a hard running, hard hitting backrower . Gillett nor glenn are that , sua is .
We have lost a lot of players over the past few years, so it's time to hold onto one of our special talents.

Gillett is a hard hitting back rower, he is one of the hardest hitting blokes we have! He would also be a hard running back rower as well if we used him differently. Sua in the NRL hasn't shown enough yet to say definitively if that's the type of player he will become. I'd say he will, but you never can tell this early. Its like the whole Haas situation. Its all hype right now and we see massive offers being bandied around yet if you look at it, as i have said before, Carrigan has been just as good, arguably better than Payne in his time at the Broncos and in ISC yet he isnt being talked about for anywhere near the figures he is, and i'm fairly positive his career will be just as good in the NRL.

I dont have a problem keeping these guys, i've got a problem paying these guys who have earned nothing yet figures like 500k a year. Sua just isnt worth more than Glenn right now for example. We can rely on Glenn, Sua we dont know if we can. Give him a two year deal with an option of another deal with a big pay increase if he keeps developing. If he still wants to go, let him go if the money is more important. I dont think you are wrong about picking and choosing who you think will do well and trying to lock them up, but we cant get into the game of locking these young blokes in by paying them overs, and i hope we never do.

 

[pagey]

Gillett is a hard hitting back rower, he is one of the hardest hitting blokes we have! He would also be a hard running back rower as well if we used him differently. Sua in the NRL hasn't shown enough yet to say definitively if that's the type of player he will become. I'd say he will, but you never can tell this early. Its like the whole Haas situation. Its all hype right now and we see massive offers being bandied around yet if you look at it, as i have said before, Carrigan has been just as good, arguably better than Payne in his time at the Broncos and in ISC yet he isnt being talked about for anywhere near the figures he is, and i'm fairly positive his career will be just as good in the NRL.

I dont have a problem keeping these guys, i've got a problem paying these guys who have earned nothing yet figures like 500k a year. Sua just isnt worth more than Glenn right now for example. We can rely on Glenn, Sua we dont know if we can. Give him a two year deal with an option of another deal with a big pay increase if he keeps developing. If he still wants to go, let him go if the money is more important. I dont think you are wrong about picking and choosing who you think will do well and trying to lock them up, but we cant get into the game of locking these young blokes in by paying them overs, and i hope we never do.

It's hard not to pay overs in an inflated market! I agree we shouldn't throw stupid money at these kids but you atleast need to come close.
You can't just low ball them and expect them to stay because you have a certain coach or are at a certain club. Those days are slowly slipping away, money taljs these days.

 

[Wolfie]

It's hard not to pay overs in an inflated market! I agree we shouldn't throw stupid money at these kids but you atleast need to come close.
You can't just low ball them and expect them to stay because you have a certain coach or are at a certain club. Those days are slowly slipping away, money taljs these days.

Sua to me is worth probably around the 150k-200k a year mark in all honesty, but no denying the market is inflated so i'd say we should be looking at around the 300k-350k mark probably. Its all about incentivising deals in favour of the player. Get them performing, and upgrade their contracts. We dont want to become the club who pays overs to players without them earning it, but we do want to be the club who pays well for players who deserve it.

I know we are going to lose players, but my issue right now is our recruitment at all levels. Why are we stacked with some many good young forwards, but we dont have the backs? Why are we wasting 10 million a week ( or what ever it is ) playing Bird in the centers when Opacic or Kahu would do just as good a job for a lot less, Or signing up aging players to long contracts like Boyd. We have the core of a good side, i'm pretty sure with some changes and better recruitment we could have a much better one. There is no doubt in my mind we are in big danger of losing at least 4 or 5 players. I just hope we can be persuasive in our contract negotiations, but at the same time you cant blame players for chasing the money.

 

[pagey]

Sua to me is worth probably around the 150k-200k a year mark in all honesty, but no denying the market is inflated so i'd say we should be looking at around the 300k-350k mark probably. Its all about incentivising deals in favour of the player. Get them performing, and upgrade their contracts. We dont want to become the club who pays overs to players without them earning it, but we do want to be the club who pays well for players who deserve it.

I know we are going to lose players, but my issue right now is our recruitment at all levels. Why are we stacked with some many good young forwards, but we dont have the backs? Why are we wasting 10 million a week ( or what ever it is ) playing Bird in the centers when Opacic or Kahu would do just as good a job for a lot less, Or signing up aging players to long contracts like Boyd. We have the core of a good side, i'm pretty sure with some changes and better recruitment we could have a much better one. There is no doubt in my mind we are in big danger of losing at least 4 or 5 players. I just hope we can be persuasive in our contract negotiations, but at the same time you cant blame players for chasing the money.

Completely agree that our recruitment needs an overhaul. This is why im all for moving bird on if there is a mutual agreement, we could use his money atm.
We use to produce so many good back it is a little depressing.

 

[Kelleher]

I believe we need to pay the promising players what they are worth or lose them and have to either start developing again or buy from other clubs and we will pay for that and all the bad habits that come with, not to mention settling in period etc like the bird situation, which I believe will ultimately come good. The only reason sua is less valueable than Glenn is not because he doesn’t play as well already but because Glenn has been playing 10 plus years longer. But the flip side is Glenn won’t be playing with us in a few years, if Sua or Haas etc stay, they will be the future. We need to pay for loyalty too, because that is what makes a good club too. Players who play for the jersey. But these guys have as much risk as the clubs do. Yeah they may not work out as promised or be the next big thing, but theses kids are putting their bodies out there too and are not guaranteed how long their career will be, esp with injuries so they have to make the money when they can as well

 

[Thelmus]

Glenn has earned his starting spot and is worth every penny spent on him. Opacic is good young centre who consistantly performs and is another moderately priced.
We seem to be under the impression we can keep everybody who are standouts in their position. It's not possible.
Recruitment is more than just picking the 30 players with the best potential. You need some player peaking now, some peaking in a year or two and others few years farther down the track.
We, broncos supporters don't tolerate troughs and peaks the way some clubs do.
Likewise, you can't just discard an aging player that is a major influence on the team if his form drops a little. Do that and we end up with a Jamal Idriss, type situation that not only looks lost when his form dips, but brings down players around him. Young players need the older players to give them context with things like that and teams need the Glenn's and opacic's to ride the team through those rough patches.

 

[roo-ted]

We are pretty much fucked for the next 4 years with Boyd, Milford and Bird locked up

 

[Accept]

1. Boyd – send in retirement & get Kahu/Isaako
2. Oats – sign him on moderate pay (overs of wingers pay & less than backrowers pay)
3. Roberts – put him on the left side for good & give him freedom to roam
4. Isaako/kahu – lock either 1 of them to the wing
5. Opacic – lock him & smack him until he become much quicker
6. Milford – he’s learning but make him do that more
7. Someone other than Kodi – PLEASE get us a game manager (perhaps Dargan/Nona/SOMEONE)
8. Lodge – he needs huge upgrade & unfortunately we can’t provide him so, get Fai/Carrigan/Lodge if we are lucky
9. Andrew – only 1 thing I ask of him is faster around the ruck PLEASE
10. McGuire – keep doing what you’re doing BUT in front row
11. Glenn/Sua - keep doing what you’re doing with more grunt
12. Gillet/Sua – Strong defence & more grunt
13. TPJ – Please show the way for rest of team & be our Captain
14. Kodi – don’t need more than 15 – 20 min tops at hooker & zip through every hole you find in attack
15. Haas – You’re our Webcke & Petro clone. Standup to that
16. Offa – keep doing what you’re doing with more grunt & will be in starting lineup soon
17. Sims - keep doing what you’re doing (it’s a jackpot for us if you do so)

These are my 17, I want be in the team next year (maybe this year too).

Keep developing these guys & give’e, a crack at 1st grade who ever deserves
18. Flegler
19. Mago
20. Savilio
21. Pearson - purely as an optional backup on the wings
22. Fifita
23. Boyd
24. Paix
25. Niu
26. Riki
27.
28.
29.
30.

27-30 are anyone whom we find would suit best for us & develop them. This way we move on some & manage our cap a lot wiser & can possibly hold on to the guys we want to.

You forgot Bird. You are kidding yourself if you think he won't be around next year and beyond. To retain the likes of S'ua, Flegler, Lodge etc, players like Sims, Opacic and even **Oates and various second stringers are unlikely to be around next year as you simply cannot keep everyone. The young forwards need to be contracted and need to be paid well as these guys will ensure that the Broncos are at the top of the heap for a decade or so. It may mean that a couple fan favorites are lost along the way but it will be beneficial long term.