NEWS Rival's $1.5 million raid on boom Bronco

[Accept]

I cant say i know a lot about NBA etc, but do they have cap restrictions? I know it goes on in the EPL in England. The big clubs pay out for the best players because there is no restriction on it.

All those sports have a salary cap as well. In the US, it has always been common practice to sign the gun youngsters to major contracts and like the NRL, sometimes potential doesn't translate into a fruitful pro career. Some players though, you need to take a chance on and Haas is one of those players. Fafita is probably another.

 

[pagey]

on the other side of the coin, if you were recruiting, we'd be luck to get 20 players under the cap ....

On Opacic, he is a solid NRL standard player, who doesn't cost a fortune ... you can't have million dollar superstars in every position

Well smokin joe has mentioned he is solid at best and i agree. Injury cover is his best position, great attitude but just not good enough.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

I think we could handle losing players like Sims, alongside Tagatese and Thiaday as we have enough cover. We can play with a prop rotation, if we keep them, of Lodge, TPJ, Moose, and Offa, supplemented by Carrigan, Flegler and Haas. I'm not so sure we can afford to lose Oates and even blokes like Opacic. The only other option to those is the injury prone Kahu. We just dont have the players there pushing for selection. Seve hasnt really got close, Shibasaki is coming along but probably more suited to the wing and Pearson doesnt take his chances despite performing in ISC.

Seve is probably a lot closer than you think

 

[Wolfie]

Seve is probably a lot closer than you think

I dont see it mate and i dont really know why. He looks really good when i see him, but even when we have a fair few injuries he just doesnt seem to be considered. I was actually quite surprised he didnt get a go before Issako or Pearson.

 

[pagey]

Not sure to be honest because no-one knows how much caps available, but more than the 200k that wolfie suggested for Sua. I'll have a go at a big picture spread of where our salary cap goes, but only based on whats in media. Maybe someone in the know could do the same with some ball park figures. As it is we all just guess really and would be sad if we really have fucked up the whole cap for next year and beyond. But we can't just take this shit attitude of take it or leave it... Sua and Haas have shown enough imo to be paid fairly, if not slight overs, the others who haven't cracked nrl are a different kettle of fish for sure.

Exactly to pay overs for a potential star and get mediocre for a year but yeap benifits years after is good business for mine.
We paid overs for barba , milf and bird and they haven't killed it straight away or at all in barbas case. So tell me why paying sua overs is any different to paying bird overs atm. Yes bird could be great but $250k more than what sua has been offered (media figure) and hasn't come close to his pay packet. Has sua not outplayed bird thus far ??

 

[Wolfie]

Well smokin joe has mentioned he is solid at best and i agree. Injury cover is his best position, great attitude but just not good enough.

But if you are a solid NRL player you are good enough surely. He just isnt a game changing player, but he is crucial to side trying to balance the cap. Like i mentioned though, 4 premiership winning coaches seem to see something in him, so he is probably a lot better than people give him credit for. The excuses that get made for Bird, i.e he isnt a left center so play him on the right where he is more comfortable, can easily apply to Tom. He has always played right side.

Despite what people go on about with me, i've always said i'd have Kahu in front of him for a center spot. I dont see him as a starter, when we have our best players fit, but i certainly think he has been as good as Bird this year in the center position.

 

[Brent81]

I'm deadly serious. I'd love to keep Sua. I'm not even looking to pay unders for Sua, i want to pay what he is worth, and i feel realistically, for a player who has achieved nothing yet, 150k-200k should be what he is paid. But as i said following that, the market is inflated. so i dont see paying 300-350k for a player who has proved nothing is fair. If he gets better, you upgrade him. I havent once said pay overs for crap and pay unders for quality. Pay them the contracts their performances warrant. You do have a little wiggle room factoring in potential, but you dont throw 500k + a year at blokes who havent done a thing yet.

As for the Opacic thing, he isnt family, there is no love or obsessiveness there, but you would have to be blind to think Bird has outperformed him this year in the centers. One is on probably under 150k a year, the other is on about 750k from reports. There isnt 600k worth of value difference in their performances in the centers. Same with Kahu, he would be on a lot less than Bird, yet wouldnt have performed any worse. You are kidding yourself big time if you think there is.

Also, i think if 4 grand final winning coaches think Tom is good enough, then i'd say he is good enough.

What absolutely blither.

Bird is a grand final winner and an origin player. Closest that Tom will get to an origin jersey is if he walks past on in Rebel Sport.

Comparing the two is just stupid.

Part of salary cap management is about keeping the club competitive over the long term and that involves making tough decisions. Like do we keep a 29 year old backrower till he is 32 when he already has had a serious neck injury and he’s been playing like a busted arse for the last 2 years when you have someone like Su’A coming through who might or might not be a superstar (not saying he will be).

 

[pagey]

Yep, i think Pat is older than Haas. i think about a year difference iirc, but i just dont see a lot between them. Haas is more hyped, probably because of his athletic ability and size more than his ability at the moment in all honesty, but at the moment i think they are on a par with each other. I really just dont see how any club in their right mind would throw 700k at a player like Haas. Ponga has done well, but he really is the exception in terms of big money for potential.

Yeah i agree $700k is just ludicrous and i highly doubt any club would pay that. Im just saying you need to invest in our youngsters, even if you need to pay ovrrs at a reasonable extent to keep them.

 

[Wolfie]

Exactly to pay overs for a potential star and get mediocre for a year but yeap benifits years after is good business for mine.
We paid overs for barba , milf and bird and they haven't killed it straight away or at all in barbas case. So tell me why paying sua overs is any different to paying bird overs atm. Yes bird could be great but $250k more than what sua has been offered (media figure) and hasn't come close to his pay packet. Has sua not outplayed bird thus far ??

What happens if you pay over then they turn into Chris Sandow, Karl Filiga, Dave Taylor, Jamal Idris, Tim Smith or Moses Suli? Still think the best option for these younger guys is to leave room in the cap if they develop quickly. Its not difficult to upgrade contracts.

Bird is a bit different because we payed for a player who has proved himself. Its not like we signed a player who had no real NRL track record. Our problem is he isnt doing it for us. If he was we wouldnt be saying he was being overpaid.

 

[Wolfie]

What absolutely blither.

Bird is a grand final winner and an origin player. Closest that Tom will get to an origin jersey is if he walks past on in Rebel Sport.

Comparing the two is just stupid.

Part of salary cap management is about keeping the club competitive over the long term and that involves making tough decisions. Like do we keep a 29 year old backrower till he is 32 when he already has had a serious neck injury and he’s been playing like a busted arse for the last 2 years when you have someone like Su’A coming through who might or might not be a superstar (not saying he will be).

I'm not even comparing them as players you numpty. I'm comparing their performances for us at center so far and there isnt much difference between them. If Bird plays to his best, he is obviously one of the best players in the NRL. He isnt playing like the player who won a grand final though is he.

Also, why are you blabbering on about Gillett? IF he doesnt need to retire, and he doesnt want to leave, how do we push him out of the door and use his money for a Sua or a Haas when he has a contract? When he signed his contract, he deserved what he got at the time. Unless we start signing players on one year deals, things like injuries and player decline are going to happen. You just cant predict it.

 

[pagey]

What happens if you pay over then they turn into Chris Sandow, Karl Filiga, Dave Taylor, Jamal Idris, Tim Smith or Moses Suli? Still think the best option for these younger guys is to leave room in the cap if they develop quickly. Its not difficult to upgrade contracts.

Bird is a bit different because we payed for a player who has proved himself. Its not like we signed a player who had no real NRL track record. Our problem is he isnt doing it for us. If he was we wouldnt be saying he was being overpaid.

Dos'nt matter are we getting our moneys worth ? Every player is a risk be it proven or unproven. Has ben barba been the same since his dally m year ? You spend more for a proven player , if you can see the potential you take the risk.
Cherry Evans is another instance of proven but not getting your moneys worth, but when his deal was done he was great. I think contract length is the thing that kills you and in cherry 's case , you won't be able to finf a club willing to take that contract on if they try to move him on.

 

[Wolfie]

Dos'nt matter are we getting our moneys worth ? Every player is a risk be it proven or unproven. Has ben barba been the same since his dally m year ? You spend more for a proven player , if you can see the potential you take the risk.
Cherry Evans is another instance of proven but not getting your moneys worth, but when his deal was done he was great. I think contract length is the thing that kills you and in cherry 's case , you won't be able to finf a club willing to take that contract on if they try to move him on.

There is a difference though in the type of recruitment. Recruiting players who have a track record is different from trying to secure your promising up and comers.

I'm not against slightly overpaying for the likes of Sua and Haas, but not too much. Its a difficult choice who to keep and who to let go as we wont keep them all and inevitably some will come back to bite us in the backside. Arrow already has.

 

[Bongo]

I would try to move on Sims, Glenn, Fai, Offa, and Kahu. So we keep oates, sua, Carrigan, Haas Fifita fledger. Thaiday will go too.

 

[Bongo]

I think arrow and hipgrave are better than fair Offa and Sims

 

[Alec]

I think arrow and hipgrave are better than fair Offa and Sims

Arrow will likely end up being better than Ofa, but Ofa is still pretty damn good. Has been consistently good for us off the bench this year, he must average close to 100m a game. I wonder what his post contact metres are.

 

[lynx000]

What happens if you pay over then they turn into Chris Sandow, Karl Filiga, Dave Taylor, Jamal Idris, Tim Smith or Moses Suli? Still think the best option for these younger guys is to leave room in the cap if they develop quickly. Its not difficult to upgrade contracts.

Bird is a bit different because we payed for a player who has proved himself. Its not like we signed a player who had no real NRL track record. Our problem is he isnt doing it for us. If he was we wouldnt be saying he was being overpaid.

I agree with this, and you can also build incentives into the contract as well where if certain performance measures are met than a bonus is paid.

 

[john1420]

We are pretty much fucked for the next 4 years with Boyd, Milford and Bird locked up

I have no problem having Milford locked up

 

[roo-ted]

I have no problem having Milford locked up

Either do I.. Just don't expect a big money signing in the next 3-4 years that's all

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