POST GAME Round 1 - Storm vs Broncos

[WASSHHH]

Hang on, Boyd was the Broncos Best Player in 2016.

To answer your question, Round 24 2018 vs Sydney.

I say this respectfully and not to be inflammatory; please don’t cherry pick and remove parts of an original post so that it reads differently. If you want to respond to a particular part, great, but I don’t think it’s right to remove the other parts and their inherent context.

Moving on. My original post said Boyd has had a pretty awful last 18 months, which obviously doesn’t include 2016. I absolutely stand by that.

But I will admit, I’m not going to pour over 2 hours of footage to prove you wrong on the round 24, 2018 game. So I will just take your word for it. The last standout game I remember from him was where he started the game with the SKD intercept try. As I said, he was brilliant that game.

My point in all of this, however, is that outside of that performance (and OK, maybe a few others scattered over the last 3-4 years), I honestly don’t think he’s put together 80 minutes of football where he has done anything more than he should be doing as our captain and first choice fullback. This is the point I am trying to get across here and in all my criticisms of him.

He should be stopping tries, he should be rallying the troops, he should be talking, he should be setting up tries from sweep plays and 3 on 2’s, he should be returning the ball with vigour - these are not things he should be having praise heaped on him for. These things are absolutely required of him if he is doing his job properly, particularly given his experience and role as captain.

He should absolutely be praised when he takes that tough carry that no one else wants to take, when he makes that impossible trysaving tackle or scores the impossible try, when he puts his body on the line to field a dangerous grubber (like he did the other night, which I praised him for), when he identifies the blind side is short and creates a try from nothing, when he makes a legitimate line break due to his own skill or determination. But he doesn’t do these things often enough, and hasn’t managed to do it regularly for a long time.

But most of all, I believe his effort is not good enough.

I might very well be a hard marker, too hard even, but I just can’t recall any of our previous captains showing signs of not putting in that ‘never say die’ attitude that Boyd has been showing for quite some time now. As I said in my original post, maybe here and there, but not on a pretty consistent basis like Boyd has over the last 18 months.

Anyway, I’ve said the same thing ad nauseum for a few posts now, so I’ll just leave it there.

 

[Wolfie]

Hughes only played 14 games and Trigger had him at 6 for a chunk of them.

Yep, my mistake, fair point, i was thinking of when he was at the Blackhawks i think. I actually really rated Hamilton in the Falcons run to the finals.

You have got me questioning now what i was watching, my memory is shot :sisi2:

 

[Wolfie]

Every player has a bad game here and there, that’s footy. Indeed, all reasonable judges excuse the odd poor performance because players simply cannot be ‘on’ all the time.

But Boyd has had a pretty awful 18 months or so.

I’d like you (or anyone else on here for that matter) to tell me, and be honest, when was the last time you saw him put together a better than average 80 minute performance?

EDIT: my answer would be the 2015 final against the Roosters, he was brilliant. But I can’t think of any other performance even remotely close to that since.

I'd actually struggle to recall 80 min performances from any of our players tbh. Boyds big issue is he is judged a lot from playing broken for a whole year in 2018. Until then i dont think he was poor at all. I noticed other players doing things Darius has been slated for the other night yet nothing is said. Even in the trial game against the titans, if Boyd had done a couple of the errors of judgement Issako did, the knives would have been out quickly.

I'm not excusing any player if they are making errors and playing poorly, but all of our players, not just Boyd should be judged on how they are going after half a dozen games or so, not after one game in 2019.

 

[Big Pete]

I say this respectfully and not to be inflammatory; please don’t cherry pick and remove parts of an original post so that it reads differently. If you want to respond to a particular part, great, but I don’t think it’s right to remove the other parts and their inherent context.

Moving on. My original post said Boyd has had a pretty awful last 18 months, which obviously doesn’t include 2016. I absolutely stand by that.

I didn't take what you said out of context, I only quoted the relevant part which was your question and then what you thought the answer was.

 

[ostin86]

Melbourne did an excellent job of breaking down the Brisbane Broncos. Bellamy has obviously done his homework on how the Broncos construct their repeat sets, because he got his kickers to deliberately kick it towards Isaako's wing as early and as often as possible. Munster and Smith did an excellent with their kicks and there wasn't much Darius could have done, especially not with Addo-Carr's chase.

It meant that the Storm were constantly playing on the front foot and could execute their early shifts to Kaufusi and Scott which they'd play off the back of. That right edge attack caused Brisbane headaches all evening and in their efforts to get numbers to defend that side, made them vulnerable to quick shifts where Melbourne were able to score the three tries they constructed.

However, I don't think it's all doom and gloom for Brisbane.

The Broncos were their own worst enemy and played right into Melbourne's hands. The teams that have performed well against Melbourne have typically played from infront and have frustrated Melbourne into making errors. Brisbane completely botched this with Lodge's incredibly dumb indiscretion and the Bird error. At 10-0 up, Melbourne are well and truly in their zone and become next to impossible to beat.

If the Broncos were to win from there, they needed to change the flow of the match. They needed to construct their sets so that Milford, Nikorima or McCullough could kick it towards a sideline so the team could regroup and Melbourne couldn't win those early rucks. The Broncos only managed this once in the opening half and it was actually by accident. Milford put in an early attacking kick for Oates, which ended up beating Corey easily over the sideline.

Then when the Broncos were able to force a scrum, it was when they were in position to put in an attacking kick and have Melbourne working it off their try line. They just never got the timing right.

Despite all of this, the Broncos still gave Melbourne plenty to worry about. The Broncos were still able to generate 34 tackle-breaks on the back foot, with nearly a 1/3 of them coming from Corey Oates. Under Seibold, the Broncos backs made nearly twice as many runs than they had the season before and made plenty of in-roads. While the backs didn't quite take as much advantage as they should have, it does provide the Broncos with a decent base moving forward.

The other noticeable change in the Broncos was how aggressive the defensive line was. There were a lot of occassions on the night where the Broncos were looking to put on big shots and while they didn't come off on the night, if they hit they will be momentum changers. The key of course will be getting the defensive line to adjust as there were a few occassions where the defensive line was left short but it was a promising sign.

So TL;DR Melbourne were excellent on the night and would have flogged most teams on the night. Brisbane were their own worst enemies, but still managed to show good signs. Corey Oates was a beast and has so far locked down his place in my Round 1 Team of the Week.

Your last paragraph sums things up perfectly Pete. We will improve quite a bit a bit over the initial rounds of the comp I believe.

 

[Alec]

Johns was talking about how the Roosters were missing Ferguson's amazing work in getting their sets started, and that got me thinking again - we have to keep Oates at all costs. He's the MVP, and Isaako seems very passive sometimes.

 

[Porthoz]

I didn't take what you said out of context, I only quoted the relevant part which was your question and then what you thought the answer was.

And yet you did it again, as the point @JAHHW is making is not about an occasional performance where Boyd actually met the minimum demanded standards, but his overall average over the last 18 months, which is abysmal. If he hasn't been the worst fullback in the competition, it's darn close to it.

I am not going to judge anyone until we've had a bit more footy, the individuals have had the chance to absorb and put into practice what Seibs wants from them, and lose the ingrained footy habits from the previous coach.
I saw good signs in Thursday's game, but also saw signs changes are going to be required, and tough decisions will need to be made, which I hope and believe Seibs has the cojones to do.

 

[Alec]

Boyd - 18 months a scapegoat
McCullough - 7 Years a Scapegoat (Oscar winner)

 

[WASSHHH]

I didn't take what you said out of context, I only quoted the relevant part which was your question and then what you thought the answer was.

Righto. It seems I might be wasting my time trying to explain this, so I give up.

 

[WASSHHH]

I'd actually struggle to recall 80 min performances from any of our players tbh. Boyds big issue is he is judged a lot from playing broken for a whole year in 2018. Until then i dont think he was poor at all. I noticed other players doing things Darius has been slated for the other night yet nothing is said. Even in the trial game against the titans, if Boyd had done a couple of the errors of judgement Issako did, the knives would have been out quickly.

I'm not excusing any player if they are making errors and playing poorly, but all of our players, not just Boyd should be judged on how they are going after half a dozen games or so, not after one game in 2019.

Who am I kidding, I would too!

However, you make some fair points.

I guess my position is based around the fact that I expect more from Boyd as the captain and most experienced player in the team.

Leeway has to be given to rookies, which is why I am not as critical of an Isaako or Fifita or even Lodge (remembering he is still very green, but is playing the house down). I just don’t think we can afford the same leeway to someone who has played close to 300 nrl games, 20 odd origins and a similar amount of tests for Australia.

A few bad games here and there, sure. But 18 months, injured or not, I don’t think is good enough.

As I said, maybe I’m too critical, but I just don’t think the effort is there from him.

Anyway, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, polite differences of opinion are what makes this place engaging!

 

[WASSHHH]

And yet you did it again, as the point @JAHHW is making is not about an occasional performance where Boyd actually met the minimum demanded standards, but his overall average over the last 18 months, which is abysmal. If he hasn't been the worst fullback in the competition, it's darn close to it.

I am not going to judge anyone until we've had a bit more footy, the individuals have had the chance to absorb and put into practice what Seibs wants from them, and lose the ingrained footy habits from the previous coach.
I saw good signs in Thursday's game, but also saw signs changes are going to be required, and tough decisions will need to be made, which I hope and believe Seibs has the cojones to do.

Agree with the first part (obviously haha).

But particularly the second part (notwithstanding my perception of Boyd’s ongoing poor effort). Bang on.

After all, it’s one game. And sure I would like us to have been better, but as a team, there’s plenty of time to improve and I really believe they can and will.

But, as I read it, what you’ve alluded to, but if not in my eyes at least, some players have less time to show improvement, otherwise some hard calls will need to be made.

 

[Big Pete]

And yet you did it again, as the point @JAHHW is making is not about an occasional performance where Boyd actually met the minimum demanded standards, but his overall average over the last 18 months, which is abysmal. If he hasn't been the worst fullback in the competition, it's darn close to it.

I just wanted to clarify the spirit behind my answer. I answered the question, because I know nobody else on here would have made a note of it and would somehow let it stand that Darius hasn't had an above average game since 2015 which is absurd for the reasons given. That was the only part of the conversation I wanted any part in, and when I engaged in that part of the conversation, it was in context.

I'm not dismissing the rest of the post, I just have nothing I wish to add to it.

 

[Porthoz]

Agree with the first part (obviously haha).

But particularly the second part (notwithstanding my perception of Boyd’s ongoing poor effort). Bang on.

After all, it’s one game. And sure I would like us to have been better, but as a team, there’s plenty of time to improve and I really believe they can and will.

But, as I read it, what you’ve alluded to, but if not in my eyes at least, some players have less time to show improvement, otherwise some hard calls will need to be made.

Exactly right. I will give the team time to absorb the new tactics and plans from the coach, and I've already seen a few signs in the trials and this game. But I don't think we can be a real contender without organisation and leadership.

Boyd isn't leading by example, and hasn't for quite a while. Besides, we need more spark and individual brilliance both in defense and attack from our fullback. I'm not sure he can emulate his 2010 and 2016 seasons again, and if he doesn't he's simply a bottom 8 fullback. I wish we had flogged him off to the Cowboys instead of Kahu, but I hope I am not proven right next week...

Kodi isn't a halfback, and is not only not delivering on what we need, he's dragging Milford down to doing what he's also not suited for but is forced into, because he's a "million dollars player". Give him an Adam Reynolds type of halves partner and watch him flourish again to great heights! We have enough players capable of fulfilling that role under contract imo, starting with SOS until one of the more talented youngsters demonstrates enough starch in ISC to be thrown into the cutthroat world that is the NRL.

FTR, I don't think we'll get much more from Isaako at fullback. I'd prefer Bird there, although my first choice would still be Kodi.

We also need more spark from our hooker. While I don't subscribe to the witch hunt against Macca, I think he needs a looming shadow on the bench, not only to push him to be at his best, but to give him a break and allow him to be more explosive and an attacking threat than just a tackle machine.

The above three are the players I won't give as much time to as others. I will still wait until they at least get the chance to prove me wrong, but I do believe Seibold may have to make tough decisions about one or two of them rather sooner than later.

I just wanted to clarify the spirit behind my answer. I answered the question, because I know nobody else on here would have made a note of it and would somehow let it stand that Darius hasn't had an above average game since 2015 which is absurd for the reasons given. That was the only part of the conversation I wanted any part in, and when I engaged in that part of the conversation, it was in context.

I'm not dismissing the rest of the post, I just have nothing I wish to add to it.

Sure, although I do not understand why you'd want to only point to the exception to what you know has been the rule for the last 18 months, if not to detract from the rest of the post.

 

[Big Pete]

Sure, although I do not understand why you'd want to only point to the exception to what you know has been the rule for the last 18 months, if not to detract from the rest of the post.

To provide the truth, which isn't always black vs white or us vs. them.

 

[Splinter]

I like the fact Melbourne showed us what it takes in the NRL. Imagine if we got Manly or Dogs first up and believed all the off season hype.

 

[Alec]

I like the fact Melbourne showed us what it takes in the NRL. Imagine if we got Manly or Dogs first up and believed all the off season hype.

That's a good point actually, especially with a rookie side. There was plenty of hype during the pre-season, and this shows they still have a ways to go.

 

[Aldo]

I like the fact Melbourne showed us what it takes in the NRL. Imagine if we got Manly or Dogs first up and believed all the off season hype.

Yep, I totally agree and was going to post something similar. Bit of a reality check for the boys.

 

[WASSHHH]

Exactly right. I will give the team time to absorb the new tactics and plans from the coach, and I've already seen a few signs in the trials and this game. But I don't think we can be a real contender without organisation and leadership.

Boyd isn't leading by example, and hasn't for quite a while. Besides, we need more spark and individual brilliance both in defense and attack from our fullback. I'm not sure he can emulate his 2010 and 2016 seasons again, and if he doesn't he's simply a bottom 8 fullback. I wish we had flogged him off to the Cowboys instead of Kahu, but I hope I am not proven right next week...

Kodi isn't a halfback, and is not only not delivering on what we need, he's dragging Milford down to doing what he's also not suited for but is forced into, because he's a "million dollars player". Give him an Adam Reynolds type of halves partner and watch him flourish again to great heights! We have enough players capable of fulfilling that role under contract imo, starting with SOS until one of the more talented youngsters demonstrates enough starch in ISC to be thrown into the cutthroat world that is the NRL.

FTR, I don't think we'll get much more from Isaako at fullback. I'd prefer Bird there, although my first choice would still be Kodi.

We also need more spark from our hooker. While I don't subscribe to the witch hunt against Macca, I think he needs a looming shadow on the bench, not only to push him to be at his best, but to give him a break and allow him to be more explosive and an attacking threat than just a tackle machine.

The above three are the players I won't give as much time to as others. I will still wait until they at least get the chance to prove me wrong, but I do believe Seibold may have to make tough decisions about one or two of them rather sooner than later.


Sure, although I do not understand why you'd want to only point to the exception to what you know has been the rule for the last 18 months, if not to detract from the rest of the post.

I really like the idea of Bird at fullback and I can’t help but think Boyd’s best position, in this the twilight of his career, is centre.

Indeed, he did it very well in Origin and has done so in the NRL too, so surely it can’t hurt to give it a go.

Niko would be great in attack at FB looming up in support, but I would worry teams would formulate their attacking plans around isolating him under high kicks. He’ll always do his best, but let’s be honest, he is not going to outjump many in any grade of football above under 10’s.

I would love to go back to Niko coming on at 9 for McCullough, ala 2015. So dynamic and threatening running amongst tired forwards.

Anyway, see what transpires over the next 6 or so weeks. Hopefully it all clicks and we’re proven wrong and we start living up to our potential!