POST GAME Round 10 - Tigers vs Broncos

[Xzei]

I won't because I don't think he is. He walked into a toxic culture, a trap if you will, laid by the Board as a consequence of their negligence and incompetence. I reckon Seibold either totally underestimated what he was walking into, or just didn't know, or expect it to be this bad.

If certain players want Seibold to go, and perform poorly to that end, then **** them. If Seibold goes, then they have won. And we will have a club where the players get to say if the coach stays or goes because of personal agendas, at the expense of the club, and the fans. Well, that's not what I want to see in the club I hold dear.

pretty much how madge lost the job at souths,players complaining that he trained them too hard.

 

[rnabokov]

pretty much how madge lost the job at souths,players complaining that he trained them too hard.

Yes, so I heard. Well, the Tigers sure like him, and it shows. The Rabbits got who they deserved, Uncle Coach, although he is good at it, although I can't see any way Souths will make the 4

 

[broncos4life]

i actually got the impressions that he knows hes done.
would not even answer when asked if hes the right man for the job...... any coach who wants the job says absolutely and ill turn it around...... he literally just said "its to raw i have not thought about it"

to me that is damning. it feels like he knows the decision may already be made for him

Yeah that is a great point. I can’t stand Mary and think he is a shit coach but look how he handled that question when asked, very different.

 

[Huge]

I really cannot accept that Seibold isn't telling our forwards to run onto the ball hard and fast. The alternative is that he is telling them not to? Or, the players couldn't be bothered. Haas ought to know exactly what he has to do to maximise his effectiveness - run onto the ball from the back fence. You don't need a coached structure for that. It's a good forward's natural instincts. He wasn't doing much of that tonight. Or, is it someone else's fault? Isn't it always someone else's fault?

Tonight, Maguire coached his defence to nullify TPJ and they did a good job. But he really tried damned hard and ran with energy. I didn't see much of that from Haas.

Fifita will instinctively look for holes and run great lines. He always has. Mostly, it's just give him the ball and he will make things happen. It is why he is so damned special (and why we must keep him).

As far as Coates and Staggs are concerned, they both give 110% no matter what. That's all that we need, except for good ball from our slack 5/8 and totally confused half back. I honestly think Croft has no idea because nobody else does and he is therefore lost out there. I reckon he wants to make things happen but nobody gives a shit. They all just shuffle around waiting to take a hit up ... flat footed from a standing start.

Everyone in this side is responsible for what happens on the field, as individual players and as a team, and everyone needs to be accountable for that.

Some time ago I wrote that I could foresee a future in which Haas realised he'd sold himself far too cheaply and his performance would wane. I think I also predicted a real sense of deep dissatisfaction with others getting paid the same or more whilst only required to carry a fraction of his workload.

I believe that future has become the present. Haas doesn't look to be enjoying his football in much the same way as Dave Taylor didn't. I think it's because he's used as a battering ram and even worse still, the expectation from the coach that the coach can send him out every week to get bashed without a meaningful break or deviation from that role.

Haas strikes me as a guy who wants to have fun but not the type who can work 12 hours a day doing a very narrowly focussed job on the production line. He isn't having fun and he has stopped doing what he did for most of last season.

I'd say to him to "get out there and try shit while taking your guys forward. If you want to chip and chase or spiral bomb or grubber a kick, go for it. Have some fun again but big fella, you'll have to face your team mates if you're fucking shit up and making everyone work so much harder but Payne, it's up to you how you want to play". That's how I'd treat him and what I'd say.

One last thing, in my teams the guys getting bashed the most, my forwards, they'd never seriously lag behind in the financial stakes. There'd be no wingers, centres or fullbacks earning double the pay for two hitups and four tackles a week. Not even a Tedesco or Locky. There's an old saying in rugby league, forwards win you matches. In my teams, they'd be highly valued and well paid.

I believe Haas is tired of his narrow, hard slog world. Now they take him for granted, expect stellar performance and underpay him to boot. I think he feels cheated, whether it's fair or not is another matter.

 

[Cavalo]

Locky made a good point in that our middle concedes far too many metres. I lost count of the number of times the Tiggers made 50 + in a set.
But the defence on the edges was just embarrassing. Croft, Milford and Boyd’s selections are untenable. Dearden and Staggs for mine. Give Kennar another run with Farnworth back and bring in Kennedy.
No one has commented on Te’o being hooked. First game starting and played 20 mins...?

 

[Eli Suave]

Brandy telling it like it is post match.

Just drop Milford and Boyd.

Dearden and Staggs in.

Umm but they were all shit.

 

[Kooly87]

I dont think they were wrong to move on from Wayne, they just didnt handle it well.

This is so regularly overlooked on here. Wayne was at best letting us stagnate, and more realistically he was taking us slowly backwards. We were getting absolutely flogged in the finals long before Seibold was around.

In truth, I think Wayne as he always does, made an average squad look just a little better than they really were and now he’s gone we’re free falling backwards, so I guess if the question is whether we should have kept Wayne instead of Seibold it’s probably still a yes, but we didn’t attempt to move Wayne on for Seibold, we did it for Bellamy, which no one could argue was not a good idea at the time.

The failure to land our target and the catastrophic handling of the fallout from that is absolutely on the board and is ultimately responsible for the current train wreck we’re in. For that I think they need to be accountable and at this stage that looks like it should be enough to cost them their jobs.

I do somewhat feel for Seibold as he walked into a very toxic environment and was ultimately too naive and perhaps even arrogant to recognise that, which again probably boils down to lack of experience at the top.

It’s time to part ways, cut him loose and bring in probably the only person in the game who can do something with this side in Kevin Walters. Surround Kevvie with good assistants and then aim to overhaul the administration as soon as possible, then the playing roster over the next 18 months.

In that time we can assess Walters as a Coach as well as actively keeping abreast of other candidates coming onto the market. Walters can use the 18 months to effectively live audition for the role on a longer term basis which is obviously challenging for him but given his level of composure as a player and in the Origin coaching arena I’m sure he will be more than capable of absorbing that pressure and perhaps even thriving in it.

I’m also fine with him retaining the Maroons Coaching position in the short term, but if he is signed to a longer deal after the first 18 months or so, then I think he needs to hand that over to someone who can do the job full time.

 

[TheGreatCornholio7]

I've been noticing that Haas just doesn't seem to run particularly hard this year, at least for his size and athleticism. I mean he's still effective and is efficient and makes good metres in total...but he just doesn't have those big runs, where you see the forward wind up and just charge into the defensive line. He's still very young, so I hope he'll get there. It might also have something to do with the team morale in general, who knows.

Hass is just a massive Milford, NO HEART and just sticks a hand out many times in defence. He is now just a stat stuffer supreme and that tends to cover up what a big coward he is.

 

[Wolfie]

This is so regularly overlooked on here. Wayne was at best letting us stagnate, and more realistically he was taking us slowly backwards. We were getting absolutely flogged in the finals long before Seibold was around.

In truth, I think Wayne as he always does, made an average squad look just a little better than they really were and now he’s gone we’re free falling backwards, so I guess if the question is whether we should have kept Wayne instead of Seibold it’s probably still a yes, but we didn’t attempt to move Wayne on for Seibold, we did it for Bellamy, which no one could argue was not a good idea at the time.

The failure to land our target and the catastrophic handling of the fallout from that is absolutely on the board and is ultimately responsible for the current train wreck we’re in. For that I think they need to be accountable and at this stage that looks like it should be enough to cost them their jobs.

I do somewhat feel for Seibold as he walked into a very toxic environment and was ultimately too naive and perhaps even arrogant to recognise that, which again probably boils down to lack of experience at the top.

It’s time to part ways, cut him loose and bring in probably the only person in the game who can do something with this side in Kevin Walters. Surround Kevvie with good assistants and then aim to overhaul the administration as soon as possible, then the playing roster over the next 18 months.

In that time we can assess Walters as a Coach as well as actively keeping abreast of other candidates coming onto the market. Walters can use the 18 months to effectively live audition for the role on a longer term basis which is obviously challenging for him but given his level of composure as a player and in the Origin coaching arena I’m sure he will be more than capable of absorbing that pressure and perhaps even thriving in it.

I’m also fine with him retaining the Maroons Coaching position in the short term, but if he is signed to a longer deal after the first 18 months or so, then I think he needs to hand that over to someone who can do the job full time.

It did all start with the Bellamy approach, which Wayne was apparently fine with that the Broncos were chasing him. IIRC, Wayne just wanted to be kept informed about how the negotiations were going ( totally fine request imo ) and the board chose not to do it. I think thats where the breakdown started.

 

[Broncos Maestro]

I'm just curious at what point will you concede the coach is the problem?

Personally I would say definitely the coach 1000000%.
Why have our released players (Kodi, Macca etc) have either gone back to a respectable level of effort or even thrived at their new clubs speaks volumes of the level of discord within the walls of the Red Hill.

 

[rnabokov]

This is so regularly overlooked on here. Wayne was at best letting us stagnate, and more realistically he was taking us slowly backwards. We were getting absolutely flogged in the finals long before Seibold was around.

In truth, I think Wayne as he always does, made an average squad look just a little better than they really were and now he’s gone we’re free falling backwards, so I guess if the question is whether we should have kept Wayne instead of Seibold it’s probably still a yes, but we didn’t attempt to move Wayne on for Seibold, we did it for Bellamy, which no one could argue was not a good idea at the time.

The failure to land our target and the catastrophic handling of the fallout from that is absolutely on the board and is ultimately responsible for the current train wreck we’re in. For that I think they need to be accountable and at this stage that looks like it should be enough to cost them their jobs.

I do somewhat feel for Seibold as he walked into a very toxic environment and was ultimately too naive and perhaps even arrogant to recognise that, which again probably boils down to lack of experience at the top.

It’s time to part ways, cut him loose and bring in probably the only person in the game who can do something with this side in Kevin Walters. Surround Kevvie with good assistants and then aim to overhaul the administration as soon as possible, then the playing roster over the next 18 months.

In that time we can assess Walters as a Coach as well as actively keeping abreast of other candidates coming onto the market. Walters can use the 18 months to effectively live audition for the role on a longer term basis which is obviously challenging for him but given his level of composure as a player and in the Origin coaching arena I’m sure he will be more than capable of absorbing that pressure and perhaps even thriving in it.

I’m also fine with him retaining the Maroons Coaching position in the short term, but if he is signed to a longer deal after the first 18 months or so, then I think he needs to hand that over to someone who can do the job full time.

I wonder if Walters would want to come here. Apart from which , sacking Seibold and bringing him in will shift the blame from the real source of the problem, deflecting true responsibility and giving the Board an excuse to continue on in its merry way

 

[JungleBoogie]

Hass is just a massive Milford, NO HEART and just sticks a hand out many times in defence. He is now just a stat stuffer supreme and that tends to cover up what a big coward he is.

Agree - Haas is so lazy at doing the little things. Never wrestles players, never makes strong contact in defence, never runs on to the ball, is always slow at the ruck, always gets put on his back, misses tackles.

I would rather he play 40 minutes and do all these little things then 80 minutes of useless stats. He is athletic enough that he can make a difference.

 

[rnabokov]

Agree - Haas is so lazy at doing the little things. Never wrestles players, never makes strong contact in defence, never runs on to the ball, is always slow at the ruck, always gets put on his back, misses tackles.

I would rather he play 40 minutes and do all these little things then 80 minutes of useless stats. He is athletic enough that he can make a difference.

If only Haas had the aggression of TPJ

 

[Renegade]

I don't absolve Haas of responsibility but I do think it's likely he's probably just mentally burnt out. He pumps out 200m on the reg and in a team that's losing on average by what, 30 a week? At what point does he go **** this

 

[rnabokov]

As Madge said in his presser: it's about enthusiasm, and that comes from the players.

You do your best because you love playing, aside from the fact it's your job, and the right thing is to do your job the best you can, even in the face of adversity.

I would like to think that each and every player would at least try their best if no other reason than out of self respect, the respect of and for each other, and out of respect for the loyal fans who support them, and the club.

One can blame Seibold or the Board all you like, and deservedly so, however for mine, nothing will change unless and until each and every player puts up their hand and says let's go, let's do this. Change has to start with and from the players. Whatever other shit is going down, you don't just give up. This is fundamental to turning this mess around. focusing elsewhere is a cop out.

Personally, I wouldn't like to be a laughing stock or the butt of jokes. Making excuses never turns things around, never brings about change. If anything, this mess shows just how much we lack true leadership out there, on the park.

 

[McHunt]

Badel really has it in for Brodie

Badel says:

"It was Seibold who wanted to sign Brodie Croft. His purchase as Brisbane’s halfback has failed. The Storm don’t release players without good reason. Melbourne believed Croft couldn’t fire under pressure and the Broncos No.7 and halves partner Anthony Milford simply haven’t jelled. Croft’s limp-armed failure to stop Luciano Leilua’s 24th-minute try was pea-hearted. Milford’s confidence is shot. It is the coach’s job to harness, extract and cultivate individual talent for a collective benefit."

McHunt

 

[rnabokov]

Badel really has it in for Brodie

View attachment 8825

Badel says:

"It was Seibold who wanted to sign Brodie Croft. His purchase as Brisbane’s halfback has failed. The Storm don’t release players without good reason. Melbourne believed Croft couldn’t fire under pressure and the Broncos No.7 and halves partner Anthony Milford simply haven’t jelled. Croft’s limp-armed failure to stop Luciano Leilua’s 24th-minute try was pea-hearted. Milford’s confidence is shot. It is the coach’s job to harness, extract and cultivate individual talent for a collective benefit."

McHunt

What a load of shit. This sort of destructive, caustic, urine journalism is exactly what the morons of the world, feed on. There's nothing like destroying a player publicly is there Badel, you arsehole. Enjoy your pea hearted excuse for journalism

 

[john1420]

The only thing I won't accept is no change. There must be change.
To be fair, this is not on just the coach or just the players, there is blame across the board.
Sacking the coach won't immediately fix the issues, but neither will dropping players, yet something has to happen and you have to start the long climb back somewhere.
If Siebs drops a few players, at least a message is being sent that performance and pride count for something.
If the Board sacks Siebs, at least we have hope for a new way forward.
Let's be honest, we all know that getting in a new coach often helps even if the coach isn't the real or total problem.
But if Siebs is still coach next week, and he trots out the same 17, we have no choice but to assume that the Board and Coach think the results are acceptable, and that will do me, I think I'll need to take a break (and I've been following them since 92)