POST GAME Round 15 - Broncos vs Dragons

[Organix]

Green would be an upgrade on Seibold but he definitely wouldn't be my choice either. I honestly can't see an better option than Kevvie, which I fear means we will get someone else...

Perhaps at first, an upgrade, but I am not sure Seibold has really had a fair opportunity to use his style and staff to full advantage. I don't know about Green, honestly.

As an aside, isn't it strange that we spell Kevvie with 2 Vs? It seems redundant but also necessary to me.

 

[Organix]

Except a major complaint of this team was them having a sense of entitlement despite achieving exactly jack shit.

League is 90% mental and their mentality was "we're top shit... if we just turn up we'll win... where the pokies at"

These losses will make them realise this isn't U16's anymore so they can't just catch it and run over the smaller guy in front of them. They actually have to turn up with the right attitude and focus on their execution.

The losses could steel them and make them realise every game in the NRL requires 100% commitment to win.

Excellent point. This is the complacency that I spoke about. They needed those big knocks to break them down - smelt them, if you will - to flush out the slag, and now they can be re-forged.

I'm sorry, I just can't help myself.

 

[ZTop]

Dearden was awesome last night, can't believe no one has mentioned that yet ;).

Gave our strike weapons early ball and took ownership of the team. However one of the things that impressed me the most was he ran for 127 metres..good to see our halves run

 

[Galah]

It’s worth getting paid less to play with him so you don’t have to try and tackle him two games a year

Dragons did a good job of it last night.

 

[broncsgoat]

Dragons did a good job of it last night.

Sure. Still wouldn’t have been fun.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

I believe you don't understand how valuable a very heavily marked player is. I have absolutely no doubt Holbrook knows exactly how to use it to his advantage and I'd bet next years wages that he doesn't expect a single player to deliver a premiership (or even finals football)

I honestly dont get this high regard everyone holds Holbrook in. He got some great results in England, but the team he had is going the exact same without him in the UK.h he's had half a season in the NRL with 1 more win then what we have in our worst season ever and I believe the same or thereabouts of what the titans had at the same stage last year, and even if they are playing great football (which they are not) and everyone of their players is in leak form (which they are not) don't we have a coach that had a debut season 10 x better then what Holbrook is having? How's tthatworked out....
And you are saying he doesn't understand what a heavily marked player does? What happens? Does it turn into 8 vs 13? Taumolo is THE BEST EVER at drawing i n 4-5 defenders EVERY SINGLE TACKLE, are the cowboys making 20 line breaks a game off of him? Teams do video, they assess players. They earn how to manage them. Especially when they are getting paid over a million dollars a year, the commentators froth over them, and there is not much strike around them. He will make breaks, not more them he did for us last year when teams were also having to watch Haas and staggs and they were still learning what fifita can do, but he will never be worth 1 million dollars. Anyone who has watched kikau play the last year can see he is the best second rower in the game but I wouldn't pay him 850,000. Why did fifita get that much? Bitterness and desperation. He will be a loss, but overall I have no doubt it will put us in a FAR better position (e.g. what we need player/salary cap wise)

 

[Midean]

I honestly dont get this high regard everyone holds Holbrook in. He got some great results in England, but the team he had is going the exact same without him in the UK.h he's had half a season in the NRL with 1 more win then what we have in our worst season ever and I believe the same or thereabouts of what the titans had at the same stage last year, and even if they are playing great football (which they are not) and everyone of their players is in leak form (which they are not) don't we have a coach that had a debut season 10 x better then what Holbrook is having? How's tthatworked out....
And you are saying he doesn't understand what a heavily marked player does? What happens? Does it turn into 8 vs 13? Taumolo is THE BEST EVER at drawing i n 4-5 defenders EVERY SINGLE TACKLE, are the cowboys making 20 line breaks a game off of him? Teams do video, they assess players. They earn how to manage them. Especially when they are getting paid over a million dollars a year, the commentators froth over them, and there is not much strike around them. He will make breaks, not more them he did for us last year when teams were also having to watch Haas and staggs and they were still learning what fifita can do, but he will never be worth 1 million dollars. Anyone who has watched kikau play the last year can see he is the best second rower in the game but I wouldn't pay him 850,000. Why did fifita get that much? Bitterness and desperation. He will be a loss, but overall I have no doubt it will put us in a FAR better position (e.g. what we need player/salary cap wise)

Well said in all aspects.

 

[Wolfie]

Staggs is a backrower imo. I've said it since i first watched him play. He could easily be as effective as Fifita imo if we get the structure right. He just runs so hard and if we hit him properly he is going to be unstoppable. Recruit a couple of solid centers ( i'd be looking at Opacic and trying hard for a Morris or even 2 if they are still unsigned, Oliver Gildart from Wigan ), a hooker and a serviceable fullback and we can build and have a decent 2021 imo.

 

[rnabokov]

I like the idea of Staggs to the back row... he could be very dangerous out there.

His profile has him as 92kg so probably undersized, but our second row stocks are sooo short, and in the future Coates will be looking for a spot in the centers.

I think center next year with Coates right wing again and see how he fills out... he's still only 21.

He's also an absolute weapon in the centers and gives the opposition center nightmares... we don't want to blunt that if he's having to make tackles and compete with +100kg backrowers.

Next year I've got Glenn and Oates in the backrow with Piakura getting minutes off the bench and playing ISC.

Bullemor, Riki?

With our injuries, I am looking forward to seeing more game time from them, see what they can do, how they develop. I am not so sure our back row stocks are low. As for Staggs, as you rightly say, he is an absolute weapon in the centres provided good coaching improves his defensive reads. His ability to shred an edge defence means our attack out there is a gold mine, especially with Dearden always looking for opportunities. For mine, he is perfect in the centres and exactly what we need, and we should resist weakening one position to possibly strengthen another when we already have a heap of talent for the back row. The only alternative position I'd like to see Staggs try is FB if Bird fails to recover or moves elsewhere.

My same argument extends to Coates. Why not develop him as an absolute top flight winger and just keep him there, especially outside Staggs. I like the potential of an edge comprising Bullemor, Staggs and Coates, with Dearden working with them.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Well said in all aspects.

Thanks. My prediciton is fifita will come shooting out of the blocks and the titans will use him a tiny bit differently, this will lead to about 10-15 games where it was the biggest mistake in our history to lose him, then......
Teams will do video, teams will assess, teams target. He will then feel the pressure mounting...That's when we will find out if he is any different to the (literally) 10000's of others that have had mega deals thrown at them at a young age and failed in world sport. There's a reason it happens. He will still break tackles, he will still be talked about non-stop by commentators like he was last night when it was obvious staggs needed the ball, not him, he will still be a danger man when not marked properly (by poor teams in nothing games mainly), but his career will not be what it could have been had the titans and their fragile egos did not come along and HEAP all this pressure on a young player still learning his craft at the top. But, but, but "fifita is different, once in a generation"... Yep, and so were the 10000's of other young sport stars who got deals like this and didn't follow through. His Bali incident, his dragging out of the deal, his lying about his manager issue, the pokies, and the Everton park hotel don't scream put to me that he already has the right attitude to push through the pressure that will come with that contract and do the 1%s thaf turn the thurstons, c.smiths, Lockyers and cronks into what they become (none of them had the biggest deals in the game, at any stage of their careers I believe, never mind when they were 20). Maybe I'll be wrong, time will tell, but history and smarter rugby league analysts then me are favouring my opinion....

 

[rnabokov]

I honestly dont get this high regard everyone holds Holbrook in. He got some great results in England, but the team he had is going the exact same without him in the UK.h he's had half a season in the NRL with 1 more win then what we have in our worst season ever and I believe the same or thereabouts of what the titans had at the same stage last year, and even if they are playing great football (which they are not) and everyone of their players is in leak form (which they are not) don't we have a coach that had a debut season 10 x better then what Holbrook is having? How's tthatworked out....
And you are saying he doesn't understand what a heavily marked player does? What happens? Does it turn into 8 vs 13? Taumolo is THE BEST EVER at drawing i n 4-5 defenders EVERY SINGLE TACKLE, are the cowboys making 20 line breaks a game off of him? Teams do video, they assess players. They earn how to manage them. Especially when they are getting paid over a million dollars a year, the commentators froth over them, and there is not much strike around them. He will make breaks, not more them he did for us last year when teams were also having to watch Haas and staggs and they were still learning what fifita can do, but he will never be worth 1 million dollars. Anyone who has watched kikau play the last year can see he is the best second rower in the game but I wouldn't pay him 850,000. Why did fifita get that much? Bitterness and desperation. He will be a loss, but overall I have no doubt it will put us in a FAR better position (e.g. what we need player/salary cap wise)

Great post. Can you maybe try to space it better with some paragraphs? Sorry it's the sub-editor in me, where reading your good prose is like trying to edit James Joyce with magnifiers and panadol.

 

[BroncsFan]

Bullemor, Riki?

With our injuries, I am looking forward to seeing more game time from them, see what they can do, how they develop. I am not so sure our back row stocks are low. As for Staggs, as you rightly say, he is an absolute weapon in the centres provided good coaching improves his defensive reads. His ability to shred an edge defence means our attack out there is a gold mine, especially with Dearden always looking for opportunities. For mine, he is perfect in the centres and exactly what we need, and we should resist weakening one position to possibly strengthen another when we already have a heap of talent for the back row. The only alternative position I'd like to see Staggs try is FB if Bird fails to recover or moves elsewhere.

My same argument extends to Coates. Why not develop him as an absolute top flight winger and just keep him there, especially outside Staggs. I like the potential of an edge comprising Bullemor, Staggs and Coates, with Dearden working with them.

There's potential with Riki and Bullemor; however it is definitely not proven at this stage. I believe they have mainly been middle forwards coming through as well.

If TPJ moves on then we have a spot opening up in the middle of the field ... I think Bullemor probably takes that spot, and we also have cap space to re-sign Flegler (letting Offa move on). Riki is also a rangy, lanky forward, which is the mold needed in the current NRL.

I believe 1910 thinks Riki is more of an edge forward, but he looked a little lost at times when playing on the left side last night... not saying he can't be but if he's come through as a middle then he needs time to learn his craft on the edge and that's what reserve grade is for.

Given we have so much inexperience in the side as it is, I don't think we need to be shoehorning guys in that may be more manufactured as edge forwards, when Oates is sitting there available.

To me Oates is a very solid backrower; he runs good lines for his halves, runs decoys when needed and I haven't seen him completely exposed in defence. We also know that he can get through a mountain of work if needed. Oates is signed for the next two years and I don't ever want to see him back on the wing so give him the entire preseason to get himself right for the backrow and if it comes off then we're set.

Let Riki, Bull and Piakura ply their trade in ISC next year with Glenn's edge spot opening up in 2022.

 

[Aldo]

Thanks. My prediciton is fifita will come shooting out of the blocks and the titans will use him a tiny bit differently, this will lead to about 10-15 games where it was the biggest mistake in our history to lose him, then......
Teams will do video, teams will assess, teams target. He will then feel the pressure mounting...That's when we will find out if he is any different to the (literally) 10000's of others that have had mega deals thrown at them at a young age and failed in world sport. There's a reason it happens. He will still break tackles, he will still be talked about non-stop by commentators like he was last night when it was obvious staggs needed the ball, not him, he will still be a danger man when not marked properly (by poor teams in nothing games mainly), but his career will not be what it could have been had the titans and their fragile egos did not come along and HEAP all this pressure on a young player still learning his craft at the top. But, but, but "fifita is different, once in a generation"... Yep, and so were the 10000's of other young sport stars who got deals like this and didn't follow through. His Bali incident, his dragging out of the deal, his lying about his manager issue, the pokies, and the Everton park hotel don't scream put to me that he already has the right attitude to push through the pressure that will come with that contract and do the 1%s thaf turn the thurstons, c.smiths, Lockyers and cronks into what they become (none of them had the biggest deals in the game, at any stage of their careers I believe, never mind when they were 20). Maybe I'll be wrong, time will tell, but history and smarter rugby league analysts then me are favouring my opinion....

The Dragons handled him pretty easily last night. He'll have to evolve his game but I think he's good enough to, otherwise he'll end up just as you've described.

 

[Scorchie]

Perhaps at first, an upgrade, but I am not sure Seibold has really had a fair opportunity to use his style and staff to full advantage. I don't know about Green, honestly.

As an aside, isn't it strange that we spell Kevvie with 2 Vs? It seems redundant but also necessary to me.

Kevvie
Ronnie
Tommie
Stevey...oh

 

[Eli Suave]

That's the type of performance Carrigan was dishing out week after week in the 2017 NYC season. Similarly it was right after Haas went down and Carrigan went above and beyond to carry the team. I said at the start of the year, I'd pick him at 13 for the season and wouldn't look back and he's repaid the faith ten fold.

Dearden just keeps getting better. What I like about his game is that he constantly challenges the defence and doesn't get deterred by the scoreboard. He has all the skills and I'm excited to track his progress.

I'd like to see Paix find his voice more. I thought he had a golden opportunity towards the end of the game to try something but he didn't put himself in the right position and Darius found himself in a spot where he just had to kick it. Still, he has some good qualities and I think he can develop into a class player if he's afforded time to develop at his own pace.

It was also nice to see Bullemor spend some quality time in the middle. I thought that was his best performance of the season and he showed he can make a positive contribution. Also did tremendously well to keep pace with Staggs, I reckon it's only a matter of time before we see him rewarded for his support play.

I found the game frustrating. The opening 10 minutes really soured me on the entire contest and every time the Broncos put themselves in a position to win the contest they'd invariably hand it straight over.

There's some good energy coming out of this performance, hopefully the boys use it wisely going forward.

Carrigan is the result of merging Matt Gillette and Jai Arrow.

 

[Alec]

Teams will mark Fifita purely because he's such a dangerous player. I think it'll force him to expand his game. He's been trying to throw offloads recently with varying levels of success (shit one to Staggs last night, a good one to Staggs a week ago), it'll probably get better with more experience. He'll probably develop a better hole running game and maybe even a passing game as the defensive lines will force him to adapt.

He doesn't suddenly go from a likely future great to a lost cause just because he left the Broncos for an insane amount of cash. Titans paid too much, but it wasn't his fault. If they paid his actual value, he wouldn't have come.

 

[rnabokov]

There's potential with Riki and Bullemor; however it is definitely not proven at this stage. I believe they have mainly been middle forwards coming through as well.

If TPJ moves on then we have a spot opening up in the middle of the field ... I think Bullemor probably takes that spot, and we also have cap space to re-sign Flegler (letting Offa move on). Riki is also a rangy, lanky forward, which is the mold needed in the current NRL.

I believe 1910 thinks Riki is more of an edge forward, but he looked a little lost at times when playing on the left side last night... not saying he can't be but if he's come through as a middle then he needs time to learn his craft on the edge and that's what reserve grade is for.

Given we have so much inexperience in the side as it is, I don't think we need to be shoehorning guys in that may be more manufactured as edge forwards, when Oates is sitting there available.

To me Oates is a very solid backrower; he runs good lines for his halves, runs decoys when needed and I haven't seen him completely exposed in defence. We also know that he can get through a mountain of work if needed. Oates is signed for the next two years and I don't ever want to see him back on the wing so give him the entire preseason to get himself right for the backrow and if it comes off then we're set.

Let Riki, Bull and Piakura ply their trade in ISC next year with Glenn's edge spot opening up in 2022.

Agree of course. Oates is a solid backrower for the reasons you say. The good thing is we have a wealth of options. What I like about Bullemor is his sheer pace. For mine, if ever there is an argument for an edge forward it is him, ultimately, an ideal replacement for Fifita. As I said elsewhere, the positives in the negatives of our injuries is that players like Bullemor, Piakura and Riki will get more game time to develop. I don't think it is so much as "shoehorning" players but rather seeing exactly where they play their best.

 

[rnabokov]

Carrigan is the result of merging Matt Gillette and Jai Arrow.

... and the attitude of Webcke