PRE-GAME Round 20 - Broncos vs Cowboys

[rnabokov]

I feel like Patty does have some skill, but the team isn't really running very fluid for us to see it at the moment.

Against the bunnies in round 2 (I know it's a while ago, but it was also when we actually played some fluid football as a team) he was throwing a lot of very nice short passes to his fellow big men that came with him... I recall a set (or maybe back to back sets) inside their 20m where he put a nice short ball on that led to a quick ptb and then a couple tackles later he almost put Flegler or Haas over with a short pass but it took a miracle tackle to stop them. The difference between then and now is that we had guys hitting the advantage line together and coming up together... so Patty was going at the line with some support runners and able to put a little something on.

At the moment everything is static and Patty is just putting it under the wing and taking the tough carries.

I think he's very talented, but he's not surrounded by enough guys that know what's going on just yet. I'd say the mass injuries to our middles hasn't helped, but I think our inexperienced forwards are still scrambling to try and adapt to the new version of the game so they're not really aware of when and where to run and provide support. TPJ doesn't really run a decoy as first receiver... Flegler was looking a little confused (or maybe fatigued) perhaps to his virus. Lodge looked off the pace (I think due to his knee injuries and not being given enough time to get back to full fitness)... and Offa just looks lazy and doesn't really run very good decoys. Haas is a little along the lines of Flegler where he's not really running those decoys.

It's something you never see from Melbourne... the first middle is always running a decoy for the first pass from dummy half... it's not usually doing much, but it just holds up the middle defence and stalls the inside defenders from getting to the first receiver.

One thing I like about Bull is he's usually always supporting through the middle so it would be nice to see him get some minutes and see if he can provide that support play through the middle.

When I watch Kennedy I think of him as our version of Tom and George Burgess... he's big and he knows how to use his size, but he also has a little bit of footwork to get between defenders... it results in him being able to skittle defences at times and then also look for quick ptb, but I think his defence gets caught out a bit (it appears he was listening intently to Seibs and the tactical penalties and he likes to push the tolerances in the ruck).

I like him as a player and would like to see us re-sign him, but I'm not sure he has the stamina to put in big minutes at lock

Again, agree with you. Makes me wonder about the COVID break. What happened, the whole game plan changed.

 

[BroncsFan]

Again, agree with you. Makes me wonder about the COVID break. What happened, the whole game plan changed.

I have no idea... everything changed over the break and I would say it has to be fitness.

The interview with Riki and Carrigan after the eels game in round 3 was an indication that the whole preseason was fitness and you could see that in rounds 1 & 2 where we looked fluid throughout the game and scrambled well in defence.

I think during the break they clocked off, because they didn't have the accountability from the coaches or squad at them everyday and were instead left on their own (apart from zoom meetings, etc.) to sort it out. After Covid everyone looked gassed except basically Carrigan and Haas.

Lodge was brought back too early,
Flegler apparently had a virus,
Offa must've been lazy (he was suspended for rounds 1 & 2 and should've come back raring to go, but has been trash this whole year),
TPJ was suspended for 3 weeks post Covid,
Fifita was rehabbing for like 8 weeks post covid
Glenn was still injured early on and then injured again for 4 weeks in his first game back
Riki picked up an ankle injury for like 6 weeks (maybe a syndesmosis?)
Kennedy is largely inexperienced and probably not ready to take on the responsibilities that come with being a starting middle

That right there is a lot of missing or underdone players in the forwards, and the only one who doesn't have an excuse is Offa... we should've been able to rely on him but he's been completely MIA this whole year. Seriously disappointing from a guy that had an opportunity to really step up for the team.

 

[rnabokov]

I have no idea... everything changed over the break and I would say it has to be fitness.

The interview with Riki and Carrigan after the eels game in round 3 was an indication that the whole preseason was fitness and you could see that in rounds 1 & 2 where we looked fluid for throughout the game and scrambled well in defence.

After Covid everyone looked gassed except basically Carrigan and Haas.

Lodge was brought back too early,
Flegler apparently had a virus,
Offa must've been lazy (he was suspended for rounds 1 & 2 and should've come back raring to go, but has been trash this whole year),
TPJ was suspended for 3 weeks post Covid,
Fifita was rehabbing for like 8 weeks post covid
Glenn was still injured early on and then injured again for 4 weeks in his first game back
Riki picked up an ankle injury for like 6 weeks (maybe a syndesmosis?)
Kennedy is largely inexperienced and probably not ready to take on the responsibilities that come with being a starting middle

That right there is a lot of missing or underdone players in the forwards, and the only one who doesn't have an excuse is Offa... we should've been able to rely on him but he's been completely MIA this whole year. Seriously disappointing from a guy that had an opportunity to really step up for the team.

Fitness yes, but it doesn't explain the loss of fluidity of our attack as you aptly described it, getting the shapes right out wide more than less. I was actually optimistic despite the less than stellar opposition. After COVID the game plan became an obsession with the middle and has stayed that way all year. It really pisses me off, so negative, uninspiring and just plain ineffectively bad football, ignoring our assets out wide.

I appreciate the injuries affecting things, however, we just seemed to stop passing the ball no matter who played, although, at the risk of being flamed, we were much better in that department with Milford playing. He and Dearden have a real future, if Milford wakes up from his torpor and the coaching works on their combinations which have shown real promise.

And don't get me started on our kicking game.

 

[BroncsFan]

Fitness yes, but it doesn't explain the loss of fluidity of our attack as you aptly described it, getting the shapes right out wide more than less. I was actually optimistic despite the less than stellar opposition. After COVID the game plan became an obsession with the middle and has stayed that way all year. It really pisses me off, so negative, uninspiring and just plain ineffectively bad football, ignoring our assets out wide.

Yeah I think Milford clocked off a bit on the return as well.

There was a lot of raving about his revised game in the trials and enthusiasm early on... but to me it looked like he was just running more, but his involvement wasn't really leading to anything. After Covid his involvement was waaay down and he couldn't get anything going on that left edge, but the coaching seemed to gear for everything to the left.

I think the obsession with the middle after Covid was originally the fixation on running things through the left hand side, but Milf not actually organising anything out there so we would do setup after setup waiting for Milf to want it, but never calling it.

I feel like Croft was the middle man with his responsibility to get the team around the field, kick to the corners and get Milford the ball inside the 20m. But if he sees an opportunity on his blind side to take it.

I think Croft was easily outplaying Milford until about the tigers game (I did a reasonable deep dive into attributing the attack up until the warriors game (round 8) at the following link https://broncoshq.com/threads/milford-or-croft.41969/page-3#post-3141166). Maybe if the coaching had given Croft more ownership of the attack early on we may have been better off?

I think the confusion in the middle forwards also didn't help.. as I said earlier everything looks static with no decoys and therefore no decisions for the defence to make "oh they're just going to Milf / Croft... no decoys... just mark up and hit the man with the ball".. it's hard to do anything as a half when no one is putting the defence under pressure with good lines.

Maybe if we had Dearden and Croft together earlier in the year we may have looked better in attack. Instead the coach panicked and started the halves merry-go-round with Milf to fullback and eventually partnering Dearden with a severely out of form and low on confidence Croft who became next to useless as a half.

The problem now is that we now have no voices in the spine and we are just relying on Dearden to do everything... Isaac seems disjointed with the halves and will do things off on his own... and whilst Darius is involving himself well on the sweep and various different things I think we actually need him to be vocal and involving himself through the middle... we basically need a Gutherson, but that's not his game and never has been so we can't expect him to start doing it now. SOS seems a bit out of his depth in being able to assist Dearden with the attack... maybe SOS should've been the halfback in that partnership and got the team around the field allowing Dearden to be the 6 and attacking spark. Instead he was having to do both with SOS at 6

I think Dearden with Staggs could get us a win, but it'll be scrappy and reliant on some individual brilliance, but at least Staggs will take the pressure off Dearden and be a genuine attacking option at 6.

Looking at next year, hopefully without a disjointed season, I think a fully fit Milford basically playing for his future will provide suitable support for Dearden. Kevvie (hopefully) will look to revamp the attack and a full preseason to get everyone fit and in game shape for the six again rules should see us perform more fluidly and far better... Kevvie should also be able to bring the attitude required to compete every week (i.e. the final 10% attributed to mental attitude).

Fullback is a different story and is completely open... Hooker will hopefully be settled with a fit Turps... and if he gets injured at least Macca can fill in competently and when Macca's spot is under pressure he can usually come up with some nice play to make sure he stays relevant.

 

[Petch67]

I just like how our injury list isn't an excuse, but roosters lose Aubo off the bench for a couple games and all of a sudden "the injuries could really disrupt their season"

Thanks Ennis... agreed they're really going to miss Aubo's 15mins

I thought i heard ray warren saying something about broncs having 11 players out but was no excuse compared to the injury list of blah blah.....then probably went off on another tangent as he has done for over 40 years...whilst at the same time being sucked off by his co commentators

 

[Petch67]

Only one more week of darry b

Yeah I'll scapegoat him all I want, and I'll pick a new one next year. Fight me.

Pity its not also the last week for Oates....boyds the odds on pop ..i wont say led...but been in front all the way only to get run down on the line by the big horse.....guys got hooves for hands

 

[Petch67]

The commentators like to say that he's a GI clone... probably because he looks a bit like him... but to me he plays more like Folau.

Folau is not really all that agile, but he has big lanky strides and exaggerated steps that cover so much distance that he could pretty quickly get away from where the defender originally is and end up on the inside or outside shoulder (i.e. steps that don't look like much but are effective and make the defender look amateur)... I feel like I haven't really seen a lot of Coates, but I reckon his biggest weapon (outside of being an aerial threat) would be a big right foot step close to the line to get on the inside shoulder and just being too big for the opposition center to handle, which is basically what we did with Folau when he was here.

He's not like a GI that had speed, power and a mammoth fend to bust teams from anywhere, but he definitely has enough to be a very effective winger for us... with a move to the centers in a few more years.

Realistically we just haven't had enough attacking opportunities in probably the last 2-3 years to see what we can actually do with the ball getting to our attacking players... and we also don't spread it within our own end to get the attackers early ball... it's been a really fucked up period for a long time where we can't sustain pressure inside the twenty and then also look fluent in attack to really let the outside backs show us what they've got.

I feel like we've been asking for early ball to the centers since Jimmy came here in 2016!!

The only attack seems to be the one out hit ups for 5 then put in a nothing kick or get caught with ball on 6..... This was same shit in Bennett's last year...also gone from a fairly good defence to non existent past few years....
Someone commented o here the other day about who they'd have as assistant coaches and looked quite good except Cartwright...but i was judging him on his head coaching role not his success as an assistant!!! Whoever our defence coach is needs to be axed

 

[rnabokov]

Yeah I think Milford clocked off a bit on the return as well.

There was a lot of raving about his revised game in the trials and enthusiasm early on... but to me it looked like he was just running more, but his involvement wasn't really leading to anything. After Covid his involvement was waaay down and he couldn't get anything going on that left edge, but the coaching seemed to gear for everything to the left.

I think the obsession with the middle after Covid was originally the fixation on running things through the left hand side, but Milf not actually organising anything out there so we would do setup after setup waiting for Milf to want it, but never calling it.

I feel like Croft was the middle man with his responsibility to get the team around the field, kick to the corners and get Milford the ball inside the 20m. But if he sees an opportunity on his blind side to take it.

I think Croft was easily outplaying Milford until about the tigers game (I did a reasonable deep dive into attributing the attack up until the warriors game (round 8) at the following link https://broncoshq.com/threads/milford-or-croft.41969/page-3#post-3141166). Maybe if the coaching had given Croft more ownership of the attack early on we may have been better off?

I think the confusion in the middle forwards also didn't help.. as I said earlier everything looks static with no decoys and therefore no decisions for the defence to make "oh they're just going to Milf / Croft... no decoys... just mark up and hit the man with the ball".. it's hard to do anything as a half when no one is putting the defence under pressure with good lines.

Maybe if we had Dearden and Croft together earlier in the year we may have looked better in attack. Instead the coach panicked and started the halves merry-go-round with Milf to fullback and eventually partnering Dearden with a severely out of form and low on confidence Croft who became next to useless as a half.

The problem now is that we now have no voices in the spine and we are just relying on Dearden to do everything... Isaac seems disjointed with the halves and will do things off on his own... and whilst Darius is involving himself well on the sweep and various different things I think we actually need him to be vocal and involving himself through the middle... we basically need a Gutherson, but that's not his game and never has been so we can't expect him to start doing it now. SOS seems a bit out of his depth in being able to assist Dearden with the attack... maybe SOS should've been the halfback in that partnership and got the team around the field allowing Dearden to be the 6 and attacking spark. Instead he was having to do both with SOS at 6

I think Dearden with Staggs could get us a win, but it'll be scrappy and reliant on some individual brilliance, but at least Staggs will take the pressure off Dearden and be a genuine attacking option at 6.

Looking at next year, hopefully without a disjointed season, I think a fully fit Milford basically playing for his future will provide suitable support for Dearden. Kevvie (hopefully) will look to revamp the attack and a full preseason to get everyone fit and in game shape for the six again rules should see us perform more fluidly and far better... Kevvie should also be able to bring the attitude required to compete every week (i.e. the final 10% attributed to mental attitude).

Fullback is a different story and is completely open... Hooker will hopefully be settled with a fit Turps... and if he gets injured at least Macca can fill in competently and when Macca's spot is under pressure he can usually come up with some nice play to make sure he stays relevant.

I also did a similar deep dive as you and ended up with a headache from hitting the bottom of that shallow pond. Yes, Milford's drop in form was alarming and Croft did outplay him in the way you described. I enjoyed watching Lodge's runs - full of energy and he did run hard from the back fence. Didn't realise exactly how good he was, and how we miss a fully fit Lodge in that middle.

The obsession with the middle seemed like a default because nothing was happening out wide. There was no defence on which to build any consistent attack. The coaching was really starting to show it's alarming inadequacies. We just didn't compete although that has been improving a lot and I feel the signs for next season are good with a decent coach.

I liked what I saw of Staggs last night at 5/8. Clever kicking. He should be there next week. Croft's confidence is too low to have him back for this important game but I suspect he will be picked.

Your point about the loss of attacking options without a FB fully involved in the middle behind the ruck is also telling.

A season to forget except for the multiple lessons that have to be learned. Those big losses were truly embarrassing and disheartening.

 

[Sproj]

Given Staggs should be the 6 moving forward, if Milford stays (which he will because no one will pay him even 50% of what he is on) what do you do with him?

 

[jarro65]

Given Staggs should be the 6 moving forward, if Milford stays (which he will because no one will pay him even 50% of what he is on) what do you do with him?

If Milf stays, you tell him he has to perform better than Staggs if he wants to keep his spot.

No more rewards for mediocrity

 

[rnabokov]

Given Staggs should be the 6 moving forward, if Milford stays (which he will because no one will pay him even 50% of what he is on) what do you do with him?

Trial him at FB, otherwise centre. He's a weapon wherever he plays. Real potential as 5/8. His short kicking game is very clever. I hope he plays there next week

 

[jarro65]

Trial him at FB, otherwise centre. He's a weapon wherever he plays. Real potential as 5/8. His short kicking game is very clever. I hope he plays there next week

He strikes me as a similar type player as Bird, very physical with lots of skills on tap.

We really need him to get his hands on the ball more.

 

[WASSHHH]

Trial him at FB, otherwise centre. He's a weapon wherever he plays. Real potential as 5/8. His short kicking game is very clever. I hope he plays there next week

I hope you misunderstood the question, otherwise you’re suggesting Milford at centre?

God help us!

 

[rnabokov]

I hope you misunderstood the question, otherwise you’re suggesting Milford at centre?

God help us!

Lol. No, at another club .. if he fails

 

[Big Pete]

Fifita is out with syndesmosis, his Origin campaign is in serious jeopardy as well.

Glenn was charged with a Grade 1 Dangerous Contact charge but will be free to play if he takes the plea.

I'm going to presume...

1. Darius Boyd
2. Corey Oates
3. Kotoni Staggs
4. Herbie Farnworth
5. Richie Kennar
6. Brodie Croft
7. Tom Dearden
8. Payne Haas
9. Issac Luke
10. Rhys Kennedy
11. Alex Glenn (c)
12. Ben Te'o
13. Patrick Carrigan

14. Cory Paix
15. Joe Ofahengaue
16. Xavier Coates
17. Jordan Riki

18. Jake Turpin
19. Ethan Bullemor
20. Sean O'Sullivan
21. Jesse Arthars

 

[BroncsFan]

Glenn was charged with a Grade 1 Dangerous Contact charge but will be free to play if he takes the plea.

I barely recall Glenn playing yet the old MRC finds another bronco to charge.... seriously fucking over the NSWRL.

I wonder what the MRC will do as of Saturday next week after they've finished finding charges for the 17 broncos that take the field... probably give themselves a pat on the back and head to qld for a well earned holiday

 

[BroncsFan]

Fifita is out with syndesmosis, his Origin campaign is in serious jeopardy as well.

Glenn was charged with a Grade 1 Dangerous Contact charge but will be free to play if he takes the plea.

I'm going to presume...

1. Darius Boyd
2. Corey Oates
3. Kotoni Staggs
4. Herbie Farnworth
5. Richie Kennar
6. Brodie Croft
7. Tom Dearden
8. Payne Haas
9. Issac Luke
10. Rhys Kennedy
11. Alex Glenn (c)
12. Ben Te'o
13. Patrick Carrigan

14. Cory Paix
15. Joe Ofahengaue
16. Xavier Coates
17. Jordan Riki

18. Jake Turpin
19. Ethan Bullemor
20. Sean O'Sullivan
21. Jesse Arthars

If we pick that team we lose. I believe you are going with what you expect to see, but would be interested to know how you think we should line up with what's available??

Teo cant get through 80... but I know you're assuming that Riki subs on for the last 30mins or so. I think Riki deserves to start with Fifita out and to reward his play last time he was on the field.

Croft is miles out of form and just dont think he can come back and ignite something after weeks of not playing a game

Oates on the wing would be a huge mistake... just drop him to the bench as back up second row already.

Turpin in the 18 I'm guessing is a Tuesday teamlist naming with the assumption that if he's fit then he's playing

 

[Big Pete]

Yeah, it's not the team I'd pick, but just what I expect to see come Tuesday. Turpin could come in, but from my understanding his broken hand was a season ending injury and NRL have just stuck with their six week time-line as a reference guide.

I presume Croft will come in since he was slated to face the Eels before he went down at training. That was on Tuesday, so he should be right to go for Thursday's game. I wouldn't bet my life on it and Gentle seemed unsure which way he'd go at the press conference, he saw it as a cursed position.