[Round 23, 2021] Broncos vs Warriors

McHunt said:
Well, I'm probably the pioneer Herbie basher, so I'll take this one.

I've been watching him closely all season, particularly after he won BHQ Player of the Round twice, waiting for him to do more than just look like something's about to happen. But it never does. He really doesn't look to hook up with other players. And he doesn't find the line. He just makes metres up the middle. That's not nothing, but it's a forward's role.

And it's not about the support. That's another issue. One that's endemic across the entire team. Actually a far bigger worry, but for another post. It's about him never trying to get in a position to link up, draw the defence and put his neighbour through a gap. It's about him not looking for support. Even when there is support, he doesn't even acknowledge it.

I've always considered Staggs a bit of a hog too. But he makes up for it by barging across the line, seemingly at will. And when he came back from injury - maybe because he's angling for a halves role - he was very clearly looking to link up and use his gaps and overlaps. Herbie NEVER creates an overlap. He runs sideways. He breaks the odd tackle. He hits it up. And then plays the ball.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not hating on Herbie. The kid has some skill. I'm just not seeing him perform the basics of what's required in a centre.

On the other hand, I'm seeing some progress in Niu. He's trying to do exactly what I want Herbie to do, albeit with varying success. I'm hoping his other issues - mostly effort related - might get ironed out with experience.
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One issue Herbie may have is that he is carrying it in his left hand.

That is the correct thing to do at left center or left wing, but he kicks with his right foot so possibly he's carrying it with his weaker hand and it becomes more difficult to offload from that point... just not as much confidence in the hand carrying it.

I'm not willing to throw Herbie out just yet, but he seems to lean towards making contact and offloading or trying to engage the defensive line, rather than just dumping it off to the winger.

I think a lot of the time Herbie and Oates are already pretty tight to the touchline to be able to put Oates away... that can definitely be due to Herbie trying to beat them on the outside, but I've seen him cut back through on the inside shoulder as well, being able to beat the opposite on either shoulder is a very handy skill to have. If he's a predominantly right handed/footed player then his natural step is the right foot step which takes him closer to the sideline, it may be beneficial for Oates to be dropping under Herbie a fair bit as the right foot step would draw the center and get Oates away from his winger, leaving a good line back at the half... definitely something they should be working on.

I'd say the effort just before halftime yesterday he should've given it to Oates as he looked to have a little bit of space, but when he did go I thought he was in a half gap and momentum would get him there only to be held up just short... but he's definitely finished those tries before.

When Herbie made the bust earlier in the half, Oates wasnt there or was covered anyway, so he couldn't pass it to him... and other times the winger isn't committing to Herbie (unlike Coates on literally every center), so giving it to Oates is a risk that he'll get bundled into touch.

I think Glenn on the inside doesnt help in taking the inside defensive pressure off him and potentially the timing of backline sweeps to the left isn't great either so he's not really got an overlap to work with.

The only other aspect I would flag is that under Vlando ball we have very little field position (often we're sub 40% in their half) so that potentially reduces his opportunities for tries, etc. I think we do look dangerous at times when we spread to his side early in a set deep in our territory.

I think there is something to work with in Herbie though... having this whole year, in what I'm imagining is his first serious stint at left center with a left arm carry, will help his development and at worst I think he'd be a seriously good left winger for us
 
Johnny92 said:
They honestly must practice it at training or the training paddock at red Hill is a little bit smaller. That's Issako, gamble and now cobbo no other team does it
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Breathe easy because as of next year Reynolds will kick off and he isnt a dumb **** so it wont happen anymore.
 
theshed said:
Not to rag on the kid too much because he tries hard and his defence has improved but I’ve never seen a winger turn their back on a bomb while literally covering their head and ducking for cover.

Our fullback and right wing are scared of the ball.
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Darius did this last year and I was digusted. Coates doing it is even more unforgivable. I'm glad he's going.
 
McHunt said:
Yep. That's why I said "two years ago." Maybe it was longer ago. I can't even remember what day it is.
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Your first sentence is literally about giving benefit of the doubt to the attacker. That's what my comment was in regards to.

True, if the ref called it no-try, but I suspect it would've been called a try because of the benefit of the doubt to the attacker.
 
Johnny92 said:
Reminded me abit like that guy with the helmet off the movie Benchwarmers.. next week he'll be chasing butterflies
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1629686892299
 
As frustrating as it is to see Milford finally turn in a good game now he's out the door, I don't think he has the passion, dedication and drive to perform at that level consistently anymore. Hard not to think 'what if' with Reynolds on the way, but he's had more than enough chances and I don't feel like we're going to be kicking ourselves at not sticking with him in a year's time.

Haas was immense again tonight, I feel like since Origin he has really stepped up and looks unstoppable. Probably Flegler's best game to date too.

Turpin kicking out of dummy half was nice and it would be good to see him continue with that to take pressure off our halves... even next year when Reynolds comes.

Niu doesn't look confident at the back, but he's very inexperienced... Hopefully he will develop, I think he needs to be taken aside and told to focus on support play and positioning rather than trying to fancy-step his way through the line everytime he gets the ball. We may see Cobbo there sooner rather than later by the looks of things.

I like Herbie but I agree with lots here saying he's a better centre than winger. Everytime he gets the ball he's only in one mind - run. He very rarely looks to take advantage of an overlap or promote the ball, he just wants the chance to have a crack at the line. I'd prefer to see him play as a floating winger... come in field, take some carries / dummy half runs and then shift back out. With our halves (hopefully) creating more space for outside backs next season, I think we're going to start seeing some missed opportunities if Herbie keeps his blinkers on.

I complain about the refereeing often (and for good reason) on here, and its just gone beyond the point of a farce. As fans of the game, we deserve for whoever was in the bunker to be put in front of the camera and forced to explain how on earth the 'clear evidence' that Coates grounded the ball first and NO TRY was the correct call was interpreted instead as 'clear evidence' that Aitken scored. Its like someone walking outside, seeing a dog and calling it a cat... it's clear as day to every single person watching / commentating except the one person making the decisions. Did he press the wrong button? Did he get players mixed up? I understand some calls can be poor due to a bad interpretation of rules or judgement call in a grey area, but this is as purely black and white as you can get and still the decision is wrong and as fans of the game we deserve both transparency and accountability. I've never seen a more dysfunctional, useless and pathetic organisation than the NRL in my life. Nearly every game is ruined or marred by some stuff-up and the (absolutely awful) referees have full power and immunity to officiate the game in any way they wish by simply making up, ignoring and creating rules and interpretations as they please. I'm sure half the time the refs have no idea what they're doing so they're just desperately trying to make up anything that makes sense in the particular circumstance, and what we end up with is a complete lucky-dip when it comes to results.

Makes me so mad.

Anyway, go the Broncs.
 
theshed said:
Nah it makes sense if you think about it. Should a try still be a try of one foot goes into touch before grounding, even though the ball isn’t out? Should you be able to bat the ball back in as long as one foot is inside the field?
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Your first example is what I mean, the player with the ball takes the ball out, not the person kicking it. The kicked ball is landing in the field of play, the player catching the ball is putting themselves out.

Anyways, the rules are the rules, I just don't like that one.
 
theshed said:
Not to rag on the kid too much because he tries hard and his defence has improved but I’ve never seen a winger turn their back on a bomb while literally covering their head and ducking for cover.

Our fullback and right wing are scared of the ball.
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Boyd taught them well in his final years.
 
BRC088 said:
Your first example is what I mean, the player with the ball takes the ball out, not the person kicking it. The kicked ball is landing in the field of play, the player catching the ball is putting themselves out.

Anyways, the rules are the rules, I just don't like that one.
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You’re actually right. My example wasn’t good 🤔

I’m on your side now. If a player can catch a ball that would’ve stayed in otherwise and put their foot over the line to make it “out”, why can’t a defender put a foot over the line and touch a player and make them out?
 
BroncsFan said:
Your first sentence is literally about giving benefit of the doubt to the attacker. That's what my comment was in regards to.

True, if the ref called it no-try, but I suspect it would've been called a try because of the benefit of the doubt to the attacker.
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I'm with you, but it was the previous post:

"had it been two years ago"

broncoshq.com

[Round 23, 2021] Broncos vs Warriors

I have to be honest, I feel a bit bad for the poor kid Walsh. He knows his kicking lost them the game tonight. I like what he brings, he's a real good'un and will have a long and successful career in the sport (pending injuries etc.) It was hard to see him like that tonight, but it's good for...
broncoshq.com broncoshq.com
 
BroncsFan said:
I think there is something to work with in Herbie though... having this whole year, in what I'm imagining is his first serious stint at left center with a left arm carry, will help his development and at worst I think he'd be a seriously good left winger for us
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Not even sure it's that complicated. I feel like it's a matter of telling him to play as a team rather than as an individual, and to do what he's doing but get the fucking ball away once in a while. And if there's no one following him, jump up and down about exactly that.

His goalkicking yesterday blew me away. The **** did that come from?
 
McHunt said:
Not even sure it's that complicated. I feel like it's a matter of telling him to play as a team rather than as an individual, and to do what he's doing but get the fucking ball away once in a while. And if there's no one following him, jump up and down about exactly that.

His goalkicking yesterday blew me away. The **** did that come from?
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Third most points in the ISC- 2019- 62 goals and 20 tries- 204 points behind Fogarty and Murphy.
 
tajhay said:
Yeah was a great game to watch tbh. Was always expecting a close tussle, as both teams want to finish the season on a high.

Sorry took a while. its now up. Might not show up as we use a CDN but i have refreshed the cache so any new users going there should see that, else they would need to delete their browser cache for nzwarriors.com. Press F5 a lot or open in a new incognito browser ideally.



View attachment 14790
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Warriors fans are all class.
 
1910 said:
In 25 ISC games, Herbie played centre once and wing 24 times. He's never shown a passing game which was why the wing was ideal and Smith had it sussed early.

He has become too rigid in the centre, his strength on the wing for Norths was his ability to adapt and change and pop up all over the place.

He played different sides and had great results. Against the Pride he came across to pass to the other centre then trots back over to his side like no big deal but it created extra men on that side, he had good vision. His second try he stays out when he has to and just waits for the Dargan pass to find him.

Against Ipswich slots in at centre on the left and shrugs off guys and scores. Goes back to the right wing.

He started 2019 on the left and then Smith moved him round 9 against Tweed back to the right. Then back to the left and got four tries against the Pride- finals back to the right. It was an even split by the end of the year with 10 tries on each side.

I made the Tate comparison in 2019, that is still what I think is his best role, on the wing move around and do more dummy half work because he is very strong and fast.

He looks like he is playing a straight jacket at the moment. Wing frees him up. He's just content to make his 10 hit ups and 150m. He's got more than that.
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Sounds like he could in fact become a fullback?
 
McHunt said:
Not even sure it's that complicated. I feel like it's a matter of telling him to play as a team rather than as an individual, and to do what he's doing but get the fucking ball away once in a while. And if there's no one following him, jump up and down about exactly that.

His goalkicking yesterday blew me away. The **** did that come from?
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Herbie has improved his attack of late but still has the odd defensive issues. Hopefully this gets better as he is relatively young.

In my view he needs a different player to Oates outside him. A genuine speedster off the mark would make a big difference. Mead outside Herbie works much better over Oates in my view. Admittedly, I am not a fan of Oates. Yes he gets good metres but he isn't the only winger in the comp to do this. And others like T'oo and Mansour leave him for dead with their handling and positioning.

As Iv'e said before I'd love Staines or Hamiso Fidow in the 1 . Both are looking for fullback opportunity next year. Not sure what their market value would be but couldn't be more than 300-400 each. I don't think Cobbo or Niu are ready for long term Number 1
 
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