POST GAME Round 5 - Broncos vs Tigers

[Alec]

Did we do that? I mean we could, but personally centre is the last place I'd put a small defender. Far too many 1 on 1 match-ups with guys that are 95+ kilos and fast.

Berrigan's defence in the cetres in late 2006 was as good as his attack, only not mentioned anywhere near as much.
He completely shut down SBW and Inglis.

 

[mrslong]

Did we do that? I mean we could, but personally centre is the last place I'd put a small defender. Far too many 1 on 1 match-ups with guys that are 95+ kilos and fast.

True, I didn’t think of that, Kodi would be a nightmare at centre.
Berro did the defence at centre while attacking hooker. He got the cc medal for shutting Inglis down pretty much. Good times, good times.

 

[Thelmus]

What I don't get is these extremely complex set plays being thrown around our own half when we are flat out doing the simple things.
In anything, you have to build on what you have and not try to balance the risks in your favour. A player running deep in a hit up, taking it to advantage line, or backline move with bodies in motion, and players running the angles are all simple things that can make a huge difference but you have to have everyone on the same page of the plan doing it.
A drop ball is inevitable in a game, but week after week we have had someone with multiple drop balls, usually in short succession.
Whatever happens from here on in, we need someone to direct this team around. A true playmaker. I've resisted the idea of promoting a young half because more often than not they struggle to make the step up, but if we keep losing like that something has to give.
Right now I would go with Darius at 5/8th much to my own reluctance as they need direction and he as captain and leader should be able to give it.
I'd wear the poor kicking, the slow footwork, if it means the team follows a plan. Right now that outweighs every problem.
On the plus side, he is a strong runner and good defender (better than either Milford or knik at least).
Throw him in the middle to drive the team and let him sink or swim doing so. Nothing else will fix our problem until a young half shows he's ready.
The only other thing we can do is completely simplify our expansive attack to around the middle, so as to take advantage of our forwards running game, pushing our halves to back up the forwards for offloads and giving a pivot for runs.
Its something Kodi would be good at.
The only thing that put a smile on my face was carrigan's cameo late in the second half. I think I watched him make 5 tackles in a row and then do 3 hit ups the following set. I see why people are head over heels for him. He would be playing next week for mine, with a lot more minutes.

 

[Alec]

The sad thing is that Nikorima, Milford and Boyd are all pretty much modern fullbacks and we are trying to fit them all into the spine, the same way we are trying to fit 4 or 5 second rowers into the top 17.

No one is an organiser, but with the split halves approach, you kinda even need 2 of them, one for each side.

I have no idea what made Milford work in 2015, but I do know he certainly wasn't playing as a modern half. I think he was more like an extra fullback in attack even back then, being more of a support player. He just clearly doesn't have the attributes to be the main man of the side.

At this stage, and it might sound controversial, but I don't think I'd be looking to retain him if he asks for anything near his current salary. I don't think McCullough is any good, but Milford's problems go beyond him. He might be a 5/8th, but only a 5/8th before the split halves system came into place (which is more like a fullback these days).

 

[Eta Carinae]

The most notable thing for me watching last nights game was the final 10-15min. We just went one out in the forwards and rolled up-field pretty well and then put up a semi-attacking bomb which they defused relatively easily. On the other hand, they were throwing the ball around and trying to create something. Just seems they are really down on confidence. Dropping too many passes that shouldn't be dropped. Maybe too many young guys and too much pressure on them.

 

[mitch222]

What annoys me about this game, is apart from Offa and McCullough - everyone else probably had a 5-6 / 10 performance.

It wasn’t that bad, it just wasn’t good. It was just average. Haas was best and IMO Carrigan was second best. The whole side lifted when he came on for his 7 minute stint, and they scored all of their second half points in those seven mins.

Carrigan was on for 15 minutes. Haas and Bird were our best players

 

[Matheos]

Last year, Bennett gave a lot more responsibility to our forwards. They were always first recievers and we played off the back of their short passes and offloads.

The difference this year is that Seibold has given Milf and KNik first touch off the ruck and we are seeing how truly disorganised and messy our attach is. It is clear as day that the achilles heel in this side is a playermaker.

If we had Luke Brooks last night on our side we win by 20+
Aside from the butchered tries... our last tackle options consistently put the Tigers on the front foot and the final stats don't show how good our forwards actually were because of it.
They had momentum most of their set starts whereas both Isaako or Boyd were constantly turned around and made to work for any ground - except when Darius was too happy to hit the deck each time off every bomb (even with no one fucking around him!)

SOS or Dearden next week is a must. If it fails then so be it...but I will not cop not even trying something.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

except when Darius was too happy to hit the deck each time off every bomb (even with no one fucking around him!)

Would you rather he dropped them? Firstly, they were all difficult kicks to catch and secondly, I'm fairly sure there was a Tiger there to claim him for every high ball he took.

Can we limit our criticism of Boyd to things that actually happened?

 

[Maroon4life]

The sad thing is that Nikorima, Milford and Boyd are all pretty much modern fullbacks and we are trying to fit them all into the spine, the same way we are trying to fit 4 or 5 second rowers into the top 17.

No one is an organiser, but with the split halves approach, you kinda even need 2 of them, one for each side.

I have no idea what made Milford work in 2015, but I do know he certainly wasn't playing as a modern half. I think he was more like an extra fullback in attack even back then, being more of a support player. He just clearly doesn't have the attributes to be the main man of the side.

At this stage, and it might sound controversial, but I don't think I'd be looking to retain him if he asks for anything near his current salary. I don't think McCullough is any good, but Milford's problems go beyond him. He might be a 5/8th, but only a 5/8th before the split halves system came into place (which is more like a fullback these days).

Thinking to the future I hope Milford doesn’t get re-signed or another club lures him from us. Hindsight being 20/20 we should have capitalised on him as a running half the whole time he was here.

Hopefully by the time his contract is up we are staring down at an entirely new spine and putting the last decade well behind us.

 

[tommy]

Another thing I noticed is that Milf had been kicking fairly well all night then on possibly(?) our last set we gave the ball to niko who dribbled the ball half as far as milf had been kicking all night. Gave them excellent field position at the death.

 

[Sproj]

This will be controversial, enjoy:

1. Boyd - His best game this year...well best 20 minutes anyway...and tells you everything. He was good at the start and just got progressively quieter as the game went on. He needs to be replaced at fullback as soon as possible and preferably by KNik. He even got in his trademark hands in the air thinking Brooks was going to go for a field guy despite having Boyd right in front of him. What ever happened to the idea of actually tackling a halfback? I mean, tackling him is going to rush him at worst and stop him kicking or passing at best. Then, he 'slips over' to an admittedly decent step. He wasn't the worst but a captain he is not. Past it, he is - 5
2. Oates - He looked dangerous all night and looked a guy who was hell bent on making up for a woeful display last week. He should have been given a try for that pathetic obstruction call. His last pass to Bird was perfect, unfortunately Bird bombed a try AGAIN. He pops his head through the line every single run. He got extremely close to going over late in the game as well off a bomb and got far closer than he had any right to get. Great understated game - 8
3. Staggs - He is a good 'un this kid. He got found out a few times in defense but this is definitely an area he is improving in rapidly. If Roberts leaves as speculated, this kid definitely softens the blow somewhat. He is a future star but the question is, in what position? Can he play 9? He has to be in the side somewhere, even if Roberts comes back. I'd happily move Bird somewhere else in the side to accommodate both Staggs and Roberts but one big let down is his inability to help shut down that final pathetic try against a second-rower filling in at centre - 6
4. Bird - This is one of the controversial ones I'm sure. I thought he wasn't very good overall. Don't get me wrong, he had his moments and has been quite good to start the season. He bombed a try for the third or fourth week in a row and that is simply unacceptable for a player of his status and pay grade. I mean that pass from Oates was perfect. He missed a LOT of tackles once again and has been doing so every game so far. He is absolutely putting in effort and will come good but I think for the team's sake, he might need to either go to 1, 6 or 9, I'm not sure where - 5
5. Isaako - What a Jekyl and Hide performance from him. There was no doubt he was better overall but that wasn't hard because he has been so rubbish thus far. His kicking was far better (except the drop out) and he helped set up that first try well. Some of his attempts at bomb defusal were absolutely horrid and screamed of a player lacking confidence sadly. Not sure what to do with him but his goal-kicking is such a plus. Unfortunately, that is the only thing keeping him in the side right now. Some very minor positive sins though - 4
6. Milford - I am going to join the chorus of getting him or KNik into the 1. Milf is the million dollar player, he is the go to man and when the go to plays are on , he goes to somewhere where he can't be found. This kid is good, we all know it, and he is coming back from injury but he and Kodi don't work well in the halves. Unfortunately, Kodi is outperforming him so far this year and KNik is copping criticism that should be directed at Milf. I would put Milf at 7 and Kodi at 1 and let them play to their strengths. Milf is the million dollar half, give him ownership of the team and if he continues to suck as he has been this season, well time to make the tough decision and move him on in order to bring in a million dollar half who actually does stand up when the game is on the line. Milf has been over-coached and would easily go to another side that lets him play as a free spirited 1 or 6 and would kill it again - 5
7. KNik - What a game! Yes, this will be extremely controversial. Yes, his defense wasn't great but he did his job as best he could. In attack though, his short kicking game was very good, his short passing and running games are as good as almost anyone and he looked threatening every time he had the ball in hand. He played a brilliant fullback's game and that is where he should be playing. He could be amazing as a 1. He has all the attributes other than height. He is quick, he is elusive and he knows how to sniff around the ruck. Put him at 1 and this side instantly becomes better and his defense certainly wouldn't be any worse than the current pretend captain - 8
8. Lodge - He had an absolute shocker. You know what, it is what it is and his score will reflect how poor he was but I am not going to be too critical. Before last night, he was one of the best for the last season and a bit. His first two drops were shockers but his third was all on Macca, what the heck was that rubbish to a prop in no man's land on the fifth? Lodge will hit back and hit back hard next week - 3
9. Macca - I can't really add anything that hasn't rightly been said already. He is out of his depth and seems to already be regressing sadly from a not very high ceiling to begin with. He can't pass to save himself. Every single pass is loopy, slow, off target and more often than not to the wrong player when in the attacking 20. He has no game awareness at all and has a history of cracking when the pressure is on. As someone mentioned, when was the last time he created a try? Even his tackling is falling away. He gets himself in the way but VERY often gets bumped off, run over or has to make a second effort. He needs to be replaced but no one is ready, so the next best option is to slowly phase him out of the side by identifying who the next best in line is and give them an opportunity to play in the 14 jersey - 3
10. Joffa - He was good. I was watching him closely and yes, he made a terrible attempt at the back of the game to tackle MCK but other than that, he was hitting better in defense and was really making some energetic hit ups. It was definitely a tep in the right direction without being a breakout game for him this year. Definitely did enough to keep his spot moving forward. He has a tendency to get better in his second stint than his first which is interesting - 6
11. Glenn - I thought he was his usual solid self. There was moment last night I really liked and it showed some leadership this side has been missing. There was a right side attacking play forming and Glenn read it beautifully, just held back and held back and then boom, sacked the dangerous runner. This side needs far more of that from the whole side. He looked a bit more dangerous than previous weeks. I still think he offers a LOT more from the bench with his pace, up temp running and agility - 6
12. Gillett - He didn't come back from the HIA did he? That seemed to be very noticable to me because I don't think MCK would have even had the chance to get that close had Gillett been on the field on that right edge at the time. He was missed when he left the field and that actually pleases me no end. It means he is getting back to his best and that is what we all went. A fit and firing Gillett is exactly what this side needs and he could well be a captaincy candidate moving further. He wasn't on for long I don't think but I LOVED what I saw from him in that time - 7
18. Haas - Was this really this kid's fourth game of FG? That was phenomenal. We all know he is a potential superstore but I did not think he would come back that strongly. He will be an 80 minute player who will become an absolute beacon for this side. I wonder if he has or can develop an offload because goodness me this side needs someone/s who can offload and create something that can resemble second phase play. Excellent start - 9

13. Fifita - That kick and chase was exciting. Yes, it didn't come off but it shows the confidence and skill level of this kid. He is going to be a superstar and I think would be a phenomenon at centre but also as good in the second-row. He is still raw and he sin't there yet but he has all the tools and dedication to get there. He does need to work on his defense as most kids do but far out, that acceleration he has and fearlessness is something else. Love this kid and he with Haas are two forwards you can build a side around - 7
15. Su'A - He only got 21 minutes apparently. I really don't think Sieb's has any idea how to use his bench. I actually thought that Su'A was a lot better in his game time this week. He still needs to go back QCup to regain fitness and play in the second row. Get him ready to replace Glenn when Su'A is actually ready. You don't need this many second-rowers in the 17 unless you give Fifita a run at centre. He needed more game time last night though - 5
16. Flegler - I thought he was good once again. He is though, already starting to show some signs of a first month in FG. He runs hard and tackles hard which is great and he will be a mainstay of this side and the Qld origin team for years to come but right now, he is still very young, still learning and still developing the fitness required for this level. Give him a month back in QCup to keep building that motor now Haas and soon TPJ are back. I love what this kid offers but lets not break him too early - 6
17. Carrigan - He was on debut and he was good, very good in fact but in too short a time. He was in everything and in many ways, reminded me of Haas on Haas's debut. Short stints but both very good. Carrigan should have got more minutes but I would give him Flegler's spot moving ahead by way of a rotation. Keep these kids fresh and hungry. I like what little I saw...a lot.

 

[Big Pete]

What annoys me most about the performance is that the Broncos somehow found a way to get worse.

They hadn't played well for 70 odd minutes and it was only the quality of their opposition that was keeping them in it. Then with the last play they produced one of the worst defensive efforts in club history to lose it.

It's embarrassing and I feel for anyone who paid hundreds and gave up their time and energy to watch that. I couldn't imagine what the bus ride/train home was like.

 

[cento]

Time for Lockyer put boots back on for the last ten minutes every game or try get Cronk for next season

 

[Porthoz]

This will be controversial, enjoy:

1. Boyd - His best game this year...well best 20 minutes anyway...and tells you everything. He was good at the start and just got progressively quieter as the game went on. He needs to be replaced at fullback as soon as possible and preferably by KNik. He even got in his trademark hands in the air thinking Brooks was going to go for a field guy despite having Boyd right in front of him. What ever happened to the idea of actually tackling a halfback? I mean, tackling him is going to rush him at worst and stop him kicking or passing at best. Then, he 'slips over' to an admittedly decent step. He wasn't the worst but a captain he is not. Past it, he is - 5
2. Oates - He looked dangerous all night and looked a guy who was hell bent on making up for a woeful display last week. He should have been given a try for that pathetic obstruction call. His last pass to Bird was perfect, unfortunately Bird bombed a try AGAIN. He pops his head through the line every single run. He got extremely close to going over late in the game as well off a bomb and got far closer than he had any right to get. Great understated game - 8
3. Staggs - He is a good 'un this kid. He got found out a few times in defense but this is definitely an area he is improving in rapidly. If Roberts leaves as speculated, this kid definitely softens the blow somewhat. He is a future star but the question is, in what position? Can he play 9? He has to be in the side somewhere, even if Roberts comes back. I'd happily move Bird somewhere else in the side to accommodate both Staggs and Roberts but one big let down is his inability to help shut down that final pathetic try against a second-rower filling in at centre - 6
4. Bird - This is one of the controversial ones I'm sure. I thought he wasn't very good overall. Don't get me wrong, he had his moments and has been quite good to start the season. He bombed a try for the third or fourth week in a row and that is simply unacceptable for a player of his status and pay grade. I mean that pass from Oates was perfect. He missed a LOT of tackles once again and has been doing so every game so far. He is absolutely putting in effort and will come good but I think for the team's sake, he might need to either go to 1, 6 or 9, I'm not sure where - 5
5. Isaako - What a Jekyl and Hide performance from him. There was no doubt he was better overall but that wasn't hard because he has been so rubbish thus far. His kicking was far better (except the drop out) and he helped set up that first try well. Some of his attempts at bomb defusal were absolutely horrid and screamed of a player lacking confidence sadly. Not sure what to do with him but his goal-kicking is such a plus. Unfortunately, that is the only thing keeping him in the side right now. Some very minor positive sins though - 4
6. Milford - I am going to join the chorus of getting him or KNik into the 1. Milf is the million dollar player, he is the go to man and when the go to plays are on , he goes to somewhere where he can't be found. This kid is good, we all know it, and he is coming back from injury but he and Kodi don't work well in the halves. Unfortunately, Kodi is outperforming him so far this year and KNik is copping criticism that should be directed at Milf. I would put Milf at 7 and Kodi at 1 and let them play to their strengths. Milf is the million dollar half, give him ownership of the team and if he continues to suck as he has been this season, well time to make the tough decision and move him on in order to bring in a million dollar half who actually does stand up when the game is on the line. Milf has been over-coached and would easily go to another side that lets him play as a free spirited 1 or 6 and would kill it again - 5
7. KNik - What a game! Yes, this will be extremely controversial. Yes, his defense wasn't great but he did his job as best he could. In attack though, his short kicking game was very good, his short passing and running games are as good as almost anyone and he looked threatening every time he had the ball in hand. He played a brilliant fullback's game and that is where he should be playing. He could be amazing as a 1. He has all the attributes other than height. He is quick, he is elusive and he knows how to sniff around the ruck. Put him at 1 and this side instantly becomes better and his defense certainly wouldn't be any worse than the current pretend captain - 8
8. Lodge - He had an absolute shocker. You know what, it is what it is and his score will reflect how poor he was but I am not going to be too critical. Before last night, he was one of the best for the last season and a bit. His first two drops were shockers but his third was all on Macca, what the heck was that rubbish to a prop in no man's land on the fifth? Lodge will hit back and hit back hard next week - 3
9. Macca - I can't really add anything that hasn't rightly been said already. He is out of his depth and seems to already be regressing sadly from a not very high ceiling to begin with. He can't pass to save himself. Every single pass is loopy, slow, off target and more often than not to the wrong player when in the attacking 20. He has no game awareness at all and has a history of cracking when the pressure is on. As someone mentioned, when was the last time he created a try? Even his tackling is falling away. He gets himself in the way but VERY often gets bumped off, run over or has to make a second effort. He needs to be replaced but no one is ready, so the next best option is to slowly phase him out of the side by identifying who the next best in line is and give them an opportunity to play in the 14 jersey - 3
10. Joffa - He was good. I was watching him closely and yes, he made a terrible attempt at the back of the game to tackle MCK but other than that, he was hitting better in defense and was really making some energetic hit ups. It was definitely a tep in the right direction without being a breakout game for him this year. Definitely did enough to keep his spot moving forward. He has a tendency to get better in his second stint than his first which is interesting - 6
11. Glenn - I thought he was his usual solid self. There was moment last night I really liked and it showed some leadership this side has been missing. There was a right side attacking play forming and Glenn read it beautifully, just held back and held back and then boom, sacked the dangerous runner. This side needs far more of that from the whole side. He looked a bit more dangerous than previous weeks. I still think he offers a LOT more from the bench with his pace, up temp running and agility - 6
12. Gillett - He didn't come back from the HIA did he? That seemed to be very noticable to me because I don't think MCK would have even had the chance to get that close had Gillett been on the field on that right edge at the time. He was missed when he left the field and that actually pleases me no end. It means he is getting back to his best and that is what we all went. A fit and firing Gillett is exactly what this side needs and he could well be a captaincy candidate moving further. He wasn't on for long I don't think but I LOVED what I saw from him in that time - 7
18. Haas - Was this really this kid's fourth game of FG? That was phenomenal. We all know he is a potential superstore but I did not think he would come back that strongly. He will be an 80 minute player who will become an absolute beacon for this side. I wonder if he has or can develop an offload because goodness me this side needs someone/s who can offload and create something that can resemble second phase play. Excellent start - 9

13. Fifita - That kick and chase was exciting. Yes, it didn't come off but it shows the confidence and skill level of this kid. He is going to be a superstar and I think would be a phenomenon at centre but also as good in the second-row. He is still raw and he sin't there yet but he has all the tools and dedication to get there. He does need to work on his defense as most kids do but far out, that acceleration he has and fearlessness is something else. Love this kid and he with Haas are two forwards you can build a side around - 7
15. Su'A - He only got 21 minutes apparently. I really don't think Sieb's has any idea how to use his bench. I actually thought that Su'A was a lot better in his game time this week. He still needs to go back QCup to regain fitness and play in the second row. Get him ready to replace Glenn when Su'A is actually ready. You don't need this many second-rowers in the 17 unless you give Fifita a run at centre. He needed more game time last night though - 5
16. Flegler - I thought he was good once again. He is though, already starting to show some signs of a first month in FG. He runs hard and tackles hard which is great and he will be a mainstay of this side and the Qld origin team for years to come but right now, he is still very young, still learning and still developing the fitness required for this level. Give him a month back in QCup to keep building that motor now Haas and soon TPJ are back. I love what this kid offers but lets not break him too early - 6
17. Carrigan - He was on debut and he was good, very good in fact but in too short a time. He was in everything and in many ways, reminded me of Haas on Haas's debut. Short stints but both very good. Carrigan should have got more minutes but I would give him Flegler's spot moving ahead by way of a rotation. Keep these kids fresh and hungry. I like what little I saw...a lot.

I don't disagree with this, although I can't agree with Kodi's score. Not because you're wrong about the player and what he could be, but because he can't be scored on how good he could be as fullback, but on how he performed as halfback.

Also, why does the amount being paid to Milford somehow make it his responsibility to be the controlling half?
Was he recruited and paid that much because of his ability to organise and control a team?

Without a doubt, both players are paying the price of decisions made in regards to this spine, and the effort put into pushing square pegs into round holes.

 

[Sproj]

I don't disagree with this, although I can't agree with Kodi's score. Not because you're wrong about the player and what he could be, but because he can't be scored on how good he could be as fullback, but on how he performed as halfback.

Also, why does the amount being paid to Milford somehow make it his responsibility to be the controlling half?
Was he recruited and paid that much because of his ability to organise and control a team?

Without a doubt, both players are paying the price of decisions made in regards to this spine, and the effort put into pushing square pegs into round holes.

I actually did think Kodi was good last night. His long kicking game is horrific though and as a result, I don't think he can ever be a controlling half. I actually think Kodi does Milf's role better than Milf at the moment. I agree Milf shouldn't be the controlling half but he IS paid the big dollars to be a JT, Cronk, DCE level controller. Perhaps more to the point, Milf is being paid to either be a game breaker or a controller and at present, he isn't doing either. At least KNik IS doing the game breaker role, so it falls to Milf to do the controlling by default.

All that said, nothing matters for either of them while their hooker continues to dish up the rubbish he is currently (and has been for the last decade) serving.

 

[mrslong]

Just checking in. Yep, still angry.

 

[mitch222]

Just checking in. Yep, still angry.

Anger like this I feel wont be subdued until at least next week.

 

[broncos4life]

What annoys me most about the performance is that the Broncos somehow found a way to get worse.

They hadn't played well for 70 odd minutes and it was only the quality of their opposition that was keeping them in it. Then with the last play they produced one of the worst defensive efforts in club history to lose it.

It's embarrassing and I feel for anyone who paid hundreds and gave up their time and energy to watch that. I couldn't imagine what the bus ride/train home was like.

Worst train ride home I have ever had. I think the fact that I was surrounded by tigers supporters that instead of giving it to me said nothing really summed it up.