PRE-GAME Round 5 - Rabbitohs vs Broncos

McHunt said:
Keep an eye out for this guy. Full credit for leadership goes to:
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This was my favourite moment of leadership and inspiration from Captain Glenn this season. Strolling along and looking at the referee while Fergo makes a break down the sideline. We're in all sorts of trouble with this guy at the helm, especially if leading by example is what he considers his greatest strength as a captain.

leadership.png
 
Jason Simmons said:
Have you forgotten the Josh Hoffman “experiment”? It was a terrible idea putting a winger with no ball playing skills and horrible defence at fullback and it was an even worse idea putting him at 5/8... Even Hook ‘I’ve never changed a thing in my life’ Griffin could see that and eventually moved him...

So by all means, let’s do it again with the closest player we have in our team to Hoggman today, Isaako...

I agree we should be looking at other fullbacks, because Isaako’s role is wing or QCup and the sooner Kev realises that, the better off we will be.
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Okay, I can be nice or blunt and nice doesn't seem to work with you. So, blunt it is. Is this seriously your argument? I mean the idiotic notion that you cannot move a player because....wait for it, years ago another player was shifted and it , horror of horrors didn't work out!!!!

You must be joking. In the spirit of stupidity we seem to have adopted here I'll counter with, a coach once moved a world class fullback to 5/8th and it worked.

Mind you I'm not stupid not stubborn enough to believe it's got any bearing on the success or failure of such a move here. You set up Hoggman as if it's the same scenario but it's only similar in much the same way as Lockyers's move is.

Besides, you still haven't explained why it's so insane when we are not getting any value out of the current arrangements. Are you saying it would be somehow worse than Milford?
 
Huge said:
Okay, I can be nice or blunt and nice doesn't seem to work with you. So, blunt it is. Is this seriously your argument? I mean the idiotic notion that you cannot move a player because....wait for it, years ago another player was shifted and it , horror of horrors didn't work out!!!!

You must be joking. In the spirit of stupidity we seem to have adopted here I'll counter with, a coach once moved a world class fullback to 5/8th and it worked.

Mind you I'm not stupid not stubborn enough to believe it's got any bearing on the success or failure of such a move here. You set up Hoggman as if it's the same scenario but it's only similar in much the same way as Lockyers's move is.

Besides, you still haven't explained why it's so insane when we are not getting any value out of the current arrangements. Are you saying it would be somehow worse than Milford?
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Tantrum alert.

Do you honestly believe Isaako is even remotely close to Lockyer in terms of skillset?
 
Huge said:
Okay, I can be nice or blunt and nice doesn't seem to work with you. So, blunt it is. Is this seriously your argument? I mean the idiotic notion that you cannot move a player because....wait for it, years ago another player was shifted and it , horror of horrors didn't work out!!!!

You must be joking. In the spirit of stupidity we seem to have adopted here I'll counter with, a coach once moved a world class fullback to 5/8th and it worked.

Mind you I'm not stupid not stubborn enough to believe it's got any bearing on the success or failure of such a move here. You set up Hoggman as if it's the same scenario but it's only similar in much the same way as Lockyers's move is.

Besides, you still haven't explained why it's so insane when we are not getting any value out of the current arrangements. Are you saying it would be somehow worse than Milford?
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I can be blunt too. Moving Isaako to 5/8 is a fucking stupid idea, because he is a very ordinary one dimensional player. His strengths are his running game and goal kicking. The only thing he is ever shown in NRL is that he is a passable winger, except when isn’t switched on, during which times he has been dropped from the team entirely in consecutive seasons...

His defence is generally rubbish. His ball handling traditionally terrible, he has shown an uncanny ability to kick the ball dead for a 7 tackle set on the few occasions he has kicked in general play and he has demonstrated zero play making skills.

Are these enough reasons to demonstrate to you why I think it’s a shithouse idea? They should be, as clearly not even Siebold thought this was a good idea and he DID move Milford out of 5/8...
 
Morkel said:
Tantrum alert.

Do you honestly believe Isaako is even remotely close to Lockyer in terms of skillset?
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Naturally that's where you'd go. The path of least resistance. Why do you do that? A comparison of their skillset? Why go past my question?

Again: what's the harm? Milford is an abject failure and the halves are not producing so what's the downside? Croft can do an effective if simple job and that's enough from him, Isaako can run or pass and hoist bombs just as well as Milford HAS BEEN DOING LATELY.

This is not a comparison thing between Isaako and Milford as both can achieve the CURRENT standard but Isaako will at least tackle.

Finally, I was only highlighting the folly of referring to a failed fb to 5/8 by pointing out a successful fb to 5/8. Only an idiot would think I was equating Isaako with Lockyer.
 
Jason Simmons said:
I can be blunt too. Moving Isaako to 5/8 is a fucking stupid idea, because he is a very ordinary one dimensional player. His strengths are his running game and goal kicking. The only thing he is ever shown in NRL is that he is a passable winger, except when isn’t switched on, during which times he has been dropped from the team entirely in consecutive seasons...

His defence is generally rubbish. His ball handling traditionally terrible, he has shown an uncanny ability to kick the ball dead for a 7 tackle set on the few occasions he has kicked in general play and he has demonstrated zero play making skills.

Are these enough reasons to demonstrate to you why I think it’s a shithouse idea? They should be, as clearly not even Siebold thought this was a good idea and he DID move Milford out of 5/8...
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So a strong running game and a good kicking game are not enough? You still refuse to answer such a simple question? What is the harm? Is Milford supplying something invaluable that would be lost??

Answer the damn question honestly.

I've presented a scenario and so far you haven't produced a single downside to a shift. Again, what would we lose?

Wtf is your problem with a 7 tackle set? We regularly have 8/9/10/11/12/13 tackle sets which teams defend WITHOUT the benefit of a set defense on the first!!! So, what's your beef?
 
Huge said:
Answer the damn question honestly.

I've presented a scenario and so far you haven't produced a single downside to a shift. Again, what would we lose?
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I'll have a go at answering as i think i get where you are coming from in terms of the just give it a shot, cant be any worse angle.

Isaako hasn't screamed give me more responsibility. For every good moment he has had at fullback he has had a bad moment. I think Kevvie is flat out hoping he can have a good 80 minute game at fullback vs. trying him in another position.

Another reason for not moving Isaako is that Kevvie has to find another fullback. I'm not sure if he can even pick Walsh but if he does he would be crucified by both fans and media for picking a player who is leaving. Sure he could try Herbie as some on here has suggested but then we need to find another centre and Herbie is no guarantee to work out anyway.

3rd reason would be that Kevvie is already a whipping boy for rotating between Dearden, Milf and Croft in the halves, if he adds in Isaako to the mix then people will be calling for the straight jacket.

I get where you are coming from and if this was lower grades or a computer game i think the idea of trying something out of the box has some merit but Isaako at five eighth is a real hail mary play which doesn't have enough merit to try yet in the early stages of Kevvie's coaching career.
 
Huge said:
Naturally that's where you'd go. The path of least resistance. Why do you do that? A comparison of their skillset? Why go past my question?

Again: what's the harm? Milford is an abject failure and the halves are not producing so what's the downside? Croft can do an effective if simple job and that's enough from him, Isaako can run or pass and hoist bombs just as well as Milford HAS BEEN DOING LATELY.

This is not a comparison thing between Isaako and Milford as both can achieve the CURRENT standard but Isaako will at least tackle.

Finally, I was only highlighting the folly of referring to a failed fb to 5/8 by pointing out a successful fb to 5/8. Only an idiot would think I was equating Isaako with Lockyer.
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Hang on, you weren't referring to Lockyer? You were referring to Milford as the "world class fullback that moved to 5/8 and worked"? That's even worse. He was never a "world class fullback", and on that note, he was hardly even a fullback at all, he came through as a half that hit first grade as a fullback because of his running game.

Regardless, Lockyer or Milford, neither are comparable to skillset to Isaako, who, rightly so, would be better compared to someone like Hoffman who has quite likely never played in the halves (except for random occasions in lower grades purely because of raw talent), who is a ball-runner, has little-to-no passing game, and even less ability nor experience in acting as a proper first or second receiver that is able to manipulate the opposition defensive line to create opportunities.

Your reasoning on why Isaako could work as a 6 (ie, it has worked for select other players) is flawed, and for you to once again resort to having tantrums and insulting other members simply because they exposed your poor reasoning is beyond what people should have to tolerate here.
 
Huge said:
So a strong running game and a good kicking game are not enough? You still refuse to answer such a simple question? What is the harm? Is Milford supplying something invaluable that would be lost??

Answer the damn question honestly.

I've presented a scenario and so far you haven't produced a single downside to a shift. Again, what would we lose?

Wtf is your problem with a 7 tackle set? We regularly have 8/9/10/11/12/13 tackle sets which teams defend WITHOUT the benefit of a set defense on the first!!! So, what's your beef?
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He doesn’t have a ‘strong kicking game’ if by that phrase you mean a tactically useful kicking game that actually leads to points in the run of play. If you want to compare in game kicking, Milford has demonstrated FAR more ability in this area.

I didn’t refuse to answer anything. If you didn’t read where I wrote that he has a poor defensive game, poor ball handling, poor in game kicking and zero playmaking skills, that is on you. Because I have been crystal clear in my statements.

I agree we need to find more from our halves. But Isaako ain’t it. Neither is Croft. They are in the 30 man squad, but they are NOT the answer to our halves issues.

The fact even you recommend moving Isaako on from fullback should give you pause on what his attributes are as a fullback let alone a half...
 
Soooo, the question! You plainly forgot what it was because you sure as shit didn't answer it. It was, what are we currently getting and by extension may lose, if the hypothetical swap were done?

I wasn't asking what you hated about Isaako.
 
Huge said:
Soooo, the question! You plainly forgot what it was because you sure as shit didn't answer it. It was, what are we currently getting and by extension may lose, if the hypothetical swap were done?

I wasn't asking what you hated about Isaako.
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I have, repeatedly. Your proposal isn’t that we replace Milford with ‘anyone’, it’s that we replace him specifically with Isaako. You could have proposed we replace him with Staggs when available, which if you believe the media reporting is actually a likely scenario, or anyone else at all you wanted to name. Lodge for instance... However you never asked that. You proposed replacing Milford with Isaako ONLY... Hence I and everyone else answered about Isaako ONLY...

If you were to do nothing and leave Milford where he is, you may get more of the same. Or less, if he completely gives up, given the media talk about him not getting a contract renewal. Or more if he actually finds some professional pride and ticker within himself to actually fight for his position within the team / NRL more broadly...

I have answered extensively what I think will happen if Kevin were to replace Milford with Isaako. We’d have a Hoffman Mk.2 scenario at 5/8 AND we’d have to find a (hopefully) competent fullback to replace him. Which to me isn’t such a big issue, as I believe we are already in that situation anyway...

Yet another of the seemingly impossible things (for us) our club is confronted with...
 
Jason Simmons said:
I have, repeatedly. Your proposal isn’t that we replace Milford with ‘anyone’, it’s that we replace him specifically with Isaako. You could have proposed we replace him with Staggs when available, which if you believe the media reporting is actually a likely scenario, or anyone else at all you wanted to name. Lodge for instance... However you never asked that. You proposed replacing Milford with Isaako ONLY... Hence I and everyone else answered about Isaako ONLY...

If you were to do nothing and leave Milford where he is, you may get more of the same. Or less, if he completely gives up, given the media talk about him not getting a contract renewal. Or more if he actually finds some professional pride and ticker within himself to actually fight for his position within the team / NRL more broadly...

I have answered extensively what I think will happen if Kevin were to replace Milford with Isaako. We’d have a Hoffman Mk.2 scenario at 5/8 AND we’d have to find a (hopefully) competent fullback to replace him. Which to me isn’t such a big issue, as I believe we are already in that situation anyway...

Yet another of the seemingly impossible things (for us) our club is confronted with...
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You're nearly there! You got halfway but backed off when you realised where you were going.

You put up half the equation, 'if you do nothing with Milford you'll likely end up with more of the same, or less, or more ( if a miracle happens)'

You then DIDN'T even attempt to describe what you may get with Isaako. Just the same put downs as before.

If you were genuinely trying to see things from another angle you might have put forward a case for Isaako ( just to show you'd thought it through)

Anyway, it doesn't matter really. You think he's shit and will be shit wherever he plays and I don't agree. I think he'd have fun at 5/8 and I reckon he could kick whatever I asked of him, from a punt damn near the length of the field to a hacky sack turn with a football. He's strong, fast and elusive and a better defender when closer in and not when be has two or more running at him in open field.

Here's to disagreement 🏆
 
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