Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

[GCBRONCO]

You're right GCB, but I must say I find it hard to accept that people will only have negative things to say and use and abuse topics to push their agenda and relentlessly bag someone.

In Griffin's case, there are no doubts he needs to improve a lot of aspects, but he's certainly on the right path as well as management:
- Good recruiting, even if we're still lacking a good option for the halves until next season.
- Got the best conditioning trainer in the business with Corvo.
- Corrected the error of making Sammy captain, although I can understand why it was done in the first place, but hindsight is a beautiful thing...
- Got one of the better youth scouts with Edwards.
- Created an Academy in one of the more fertile Rugby League nurseries, right in our backyard.

Obviously, we still need to see what all of the above will bring, and he definitely still has plenty to do tactically and technically:
- Game management, interchanges, etc... (he is one of the worst I have ever seen at this)
- Defense! We cannot aspire to anything when we're averaging 30+ missed tackles per game, making us one of the worst in the NRL.
- Better game plan, more set plays and more diversity, without losing too much of the good things of Griffin ball, like the low mistake rate while in possession, as well as pretty good discipline in general.

I cannot imagine that if a wannabe coach (read couch potato) like me, can come up with the above, an organisation like the Broncos doesn't have a whole plan worked out!

Let's not forget that we had the biggest injury toll in the backline ever last year. It certainly doesn't explain everything, but it had a big influence in the way our season went...

Definitely all I was saying was his entitled to his opinion, you don't have to agree with it by any means, balance is very important in the scheme of things and for all the negative decisions the club has made over the years, there's plenty of positives to have come out of the end of 2013 that can go a long way to getting the club back on track.

 

[Morkel]

It's a combination of both time frames, on the one hand the club was looking to the future through McCullough, Hunt and Norman with Wallace to carry the duties, they stunted Hunt's development by persisting on playing him in a replacement hooker role off the bench when his future lies in the 7 or 6 jersey, he really should have spent time in the Queensland Cup early on and introduced into the NRL when he was ready. They persisted with Wallace at 7 for far too long, he should have been moved to 5/8th which a lot of people argue is his natural position anyway and then bring Hunt into 7, then ditched if he failed to deliver.

There's been a chorus of us wanting Hunt & just about all the young talent getting experience in the Q-Cup. The defence is not NRL standard but it's above the NYC and it's against grown men. In Hook's defence, the last couple of years he's worked to rectify this, with the more promising players going to an affiliate cup team when they were still eligible for U20's.

 

[GCBRONCO]

There's been a chorus of us wanting Hunt & just about all the young talent getting experience in the Q-Cup. The defence is not NRL standard but it's above the NYC and it's against grown men. In Hook's defence, the last couple of years he's worked to rectify this, with the more promising players going to an affiliate cup team when they were still eligible for U20's.

Definitely, the Under 20's really hasn't improved the development of the young generation of players coming through, its hindered them particularly from a defensive perspective, in the reserve grade system they at least came up against players who had real first grade experience even if it was at the back end of their career.

 

[Morkel]

Definitely, the Under 20's really hasn't improved the development of the young generation of players coming through, its hindered them particularly from a defensive perspective, in the reserve grade system they at least came up against players who had real first grade experience even if it was at the back end of their career.

Absolutely. It's telling that there are very few playmakers coming through that are even close to ready for first grade. Even players like Milford rely mostly on their speed & running game. It is difficult to develop a proper halves game that combines the passing & kicking game with holding up a defensive line & keeping them guessing, especially when the difference in defensive skill is so vast between NYC and NRL.

 

[Russell Coight]

Lol Cammac, you're the poster child for having an agenda.

I don't see how. I speak about things how i see it. I have no agenda at all.

 

[GCBRONCO]

That's why I would have liked to see Kevin Walters recruited into our coaching staff, I heard him on a radio about his decision to join the Knights and during the interview he was asked about what he thought of the modern day half, he said he can see the benefit's of being more athletic from a perspective of what it allows them to physically do on the field, but their development through the system also has them relying too much on that individual brilliance/physical ability, instead of using their head. That may work for the top level of players coming through, but there is a wider gap growing where it's obvious they are well and truly behind the curve and that may work in the under 20's or the QLD/NSW cup, but find themselves behind when they make the step up.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I don't think resorting to childish remarks on either side really helps the situation, either we get back on to subject or perhaps the thread should be locked?

 

[Russell Coight]

I don't think resorting to childish remarks on either side really helps the situation, either we get back on to subject or perhaps the thread should be locked?

you're right. my bad

 

[Alec]

Broncos on the rise and Griffin is kind of like

"We have the best movie script, the best director, the biggest budget, and our main character will be played by Jake Lloyd."

Even if the other things are great, we should still want a better leading man.

 

[Russell Coight]

Broncos on the rise and Griffin is kind of like

"We have the best movie script, the best director, the biggest budget, and our main character will be played by Jake Lloyd."

Even if the other things are great, we should still want a better leading man.

I have to agree with you on that.

 

[Foordy]

Broncos on the rise and Griffin is kind of like

"We have the best movie script, the best director, the biggest budget, and our main character will be played by Jake Lloyd."

Even if the other things are great, we should still want a better leading man.

why do people think that just because we are the richest league club we can sign any player we want ... we still have to abide by a salary cap. we can't pay more for our players than the poorest club can...

In the case of Thurston and Cronk, they both reportedly turned down massive offers to stay at their clubs. Thurston reportedly turned down around 1.3 million and Cronk around 800k (before the cap raised significantly). What makes anyone think we were a chance unless we offered more than that and that would have stuffed us anyway.

FTR, comments above not entirely aimed at you, i hear it from many NRL fans.

Also, i can see why Griffin has reportedly been given 10-odd games to save his job, with Maguire off contract for 2015, i see us chasing him hard (and we can use our financial muscle for that) if things haven't turned around by origin.

 

[Big Pete]

Couple of good points being raised in this thread, this is how I see it.

Ben Hunt's development - I agree that he should have been developed as a half playing Queensland Cup in 2011 but he was more or less a victim of the current set up where the Broncos don't have as much control as they would like and there would be some negatives there too.

A couple of players (eg. Norman, Gagai, Baptiste, Copley) should have been promoted in 2011 as they basically became complacent in the NYC but given how slap-dash Hook's appointment as head coach was, I can forgive him on that and think he's been pretty good with player promotion since then.

Signing JT - The question would be, what impact would that signature have on the squad and would we get value for money and receive our premiership? I don't think JT alone has been a great player for the Cows for awhile now, he's brilliant in the representative scene where he has Smith, Cronk, Slater, Hodges & Slater to play off of but without them, is he good enough to perform to his standard at club level for 24 games a year? I don't think the entire Cowboys fanbase would have an unequivocal response to that.

In the end, we signed Milford who has legitimate potential to be a superstar who we can build around. Only problem is that it leaves us in quite the predicament for 2014.

Use Of Bench - I agree to an extent with this but as per usual feel like fans overexagerate with this. It'd be something if this was Origin and he had a Papalii or somebody of that ilk to draw on but the likes of Hala especially weren't where they needed to be aerobically and couldn't handle the longer stints, meaning our starters had to play long minutes. Not ideal and I believe everybody suffered but that's why Hook brought in players like Kennedy to take the burden off of them.

 

[Alec]

why do people think that just because we are the richest league club we can sign any player we want ... we still have to abide by a salary cap. we can't pay more for our players than the poorest club can...

In the case of Thurston and Cronk, they both reportedly turned down massive offers to stay at their clubs. Thurston reportedly turned down around 1.3 million and Cronk around 800k (before the cap raised significantly). What makes anyone think we were a chance unless we offered more than that and that would have stuffed us anyway.

FTR, comments above not entirely aimed at you, i hear it from many NRL fans.

Also, i can see why Griffin has reportedly been given 10-odd games to save his job, with Maguire off contract for 2015, i see us chasing him hard (and we can use our financial muscle for that) if things haven't turned around by origin.

We don't really have a script either, I'm just using movies as an example.

 

[Allo]

Couple of good points being raised in this thread, this is how I see it.

Ben Hunt's development - I agree that he should have been developed as a half playing Queensland Cup in 2011 but he was more or less a victim of the current set up where the Broncos don't have as much control as they would like and there would be some negatives there too.

A couple of players (eg. Norman, Gagai, Baptiste, Copley) should have been promoted in 2011 as they basically became complacent in the NYC but given how slap-dash Hook's appointment as head coach was, I can forgive him on that and think he's been pretty good with player promotion since then.

Signing JT - The question would be, what impact would that signature have on the squad and would we get value for money and receive our premiership? I don't think JT alone has been a great player for the Cows for awhile now, he's brilliant in the representative scene where he has Smith, Cronk, Slater, Hodges & Slater to play off of but without them, is he good enough to perform to his standard at club level for 24 games a year? I don't think the entire Cowboys fanbase would have an unequivocal response to that.

In the end, we signed Milford who has legitimate potential to be a superstar who we can build around. Only problem is that it leaves us in quite the predicament for 2014.

Use Of Bench - I agree to an extent with this but as per usual feel like fans overexagerate with this. It'd be something if this was Origin and he had a Papalii or somebody of that ilk to draw on but the likes of Hala especially weren't where they needed to be aerobically and couldn't handle the longer stints, meaning our starters had to play long minutes. Not ideal and I believe everybody suffered but that's why Hook brought in players like Kennedy to take the burden off of them.

Just on the bench thing, I don't get how are players like Hala, J Wallace and (at the time) Tasi, are supposed to gain the match fitness if they only play 8-10 minutes, most of it in defence, and not (that I recall) play QCup on the weekend either ? Doesn't make sense. Obviously you don't want any weak links but half the time it was with 10 to go and the game was finished. Why bother putting them in? Just keep them benched and let them play QCup so they don't have to do recovery for 8 minutes of game time. Or you know, give them 20 minutes at least and not waste everyone's time

 

[Russell Coight]

Just on the bench thing, I don't get how are players like Hala, J Wallace and (at the time) Tasi, are supposed to gain the match fitness if they only play 8-10 minutes, most of it in defence, and not (that I recall) play QCup on the weekend either ? Doesn't make sense. Obviously you don't want any weak links but half the time it was with 10 to go and the game was finished. Why bother putting them in? Just keep them benched and let them play QCup so they don't have to do recovery for 8 minutes of game time. Or you know, give them 20 minutes at least and not waste everyone's time

Totally, i think as a lot of people have agreed on is Hook has NFI how to use the bench.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

May I ask where all this talk of Bennett back to Broncos in 2015 has come from? I'm seeing it everywhere. Is this the long rumored director of coaching role or is he looking to take back his old seat?

A lot of people are saying Bennett is washed up now considering he hasn't put Newcastle on the right track, but I have always put that down to the sometimes outright lazy and weak hearted squad then Bennett's coaching.

 

[Russell Coight]

May I ask where all this talk of Bennett back to Broncos in 2015 has come from? I'm seeing it everywhere. Is this the long rumored director of coaching role or is he looking to take back his old seat?

A lot of people are saying Bennett is washed up now considering he hasn't put Newcastle on the right track, but I have always put that down to the sometimes outright lazy and weak hearted squad then Bennett's coaching.

The rumour is benny will retire from coaching at the end of this year and be the director of the broncos with kevin walters as coach.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

The rumour is benny will retire from coaching at the end of this year and be the director of the broncos with kevin walters as coach.

Is Walters deal with Newcastle only for one year?

Either way, it's a much better setup then what we've got currently. Keep the fitness coach from the Storm, offload all the rest including Hook and let Benny bring in his own people.