Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

[Porthoz]

Fact is Hunt never put his hand up when he had a chance to. He failed miserably to impress anyone for 3 years in a row when he had a chance to snare a spot in the halves.

Should he have honed his skills in Qcup? Possibly. But the experience he gained playing first grade is also invaluable...

I sincerely hope he goes on with it and becomes our seven for many years to come, because I believe he has the vision to be a great half. But he is far from convincing me, as he has shown very poor execution in most of the games he played as our leading half.

As to the "bulk, bulk, bulk" talk. I very much doubt that Griffin encouraged anyone to have a main diet of junk food.
It may have been as simple as him asking Guilfoyle to build the players up, and trusting a guy who was with the Broncos for so many years, to do a proper job... When he realised he didn't, he got someone who would.

There are enough things to blame Griffin for, like his atrocious use of the bench and lack of spark in attack, but I'm not so sure about the above two.

 

[Harry Sack]

Fact is Hunt never put his hand up when he had a chance to. He failed miserably to impress anyone for 3 years in a row when he had a chance to snare a spot in the halves.

After being groomed to play a different role, I find that unsurprising. I will concede that it wouldn't matter to a more natural half though.

Should he have honed his skills in Qcup? Possibly.

Definitely

But the experience he gained playing first grade is also invaluable...

True, but it wasn't in the position he was intended for.

I've gone on repeatedly about how we've fucked Hunts development as a half. He should have spent the majority of the years leading up to Lockyers retirement in Qcup, learning to steer around a team. This has, to a point, been coached out of him. I hope he can get it back.

 

[Russell Coight]

Clause out in fight for Wayne Bennett: Super coach free to exit Knights if Nathan Tinkler loses ownership

Nathan Tinkler's ownership of the Newcastle Knights is in serious doubt after the Hunter Sports Group missed a deadline for a bank guarantee to secure him.

Knights coach Wayne Bennett at Hunter Stadium. Source: Getty Images
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  [*=left]Nathan Tinkler's Knights ownership in je...
  [*=left]Knights coach Wayne Bennett at Hunter St...

NATHAN Tinkler’s capacity to maintain control of Newcastle will dictate whether Wayne Bennett stays beyond this season, amid speculation an impending Brisbane Broncos takeover bid could entice the super coach home a year early.
With Bennett confiding to friends that his future is clouded because of uncertainty surrounding Newcastle’s ownership, The Daily Telegraph can reveal his four-year deal was done directly with Tinkler’s Hunter Sports Group (HSG) — not the Knights football club.

Mining magnate Nathan Tinkler. Source: Supplied


That means Bennett will become a free agent should HSG relinquish ownership of the Knights — a possibility that remains after Tink¬ler and the members club yesterday negotiated HSG’s $10.5 million bank guarantee to be placed into a joint account.
The Knights were yesterday unable to guarantee that HSG would retain control of the club into the foreseeable future, with the current model only guaranteed to persist throughout discussions with the members and the NRL.
Putting HSG out of the picture will trigger a get-out clause for Bennett, who has spent six years away from his family in Brisbane.
Although his salary and superannuation have been paid on time, the seven-time premiership winner is not ignoring the speculation that surrounds Tinkler’s stewardship.
Sources close to Bennett have confirmed he has expressed private concern over the ownership imbroglio, telling close friends — including a captain from a rival club — that his future beyond this year cannot be guaranteed.

Wayne Bennett, Coach of Newcastle. Source: News Corp Australia


Bennett returns to Brisbane as often as possible to visit his wife and children, and a fairytale finish at the Broncos has been widely mooted.
Rival powerbrokers believe Brisbane are ready to appoint the 64-year-old as a director of football operations, similar to the roles Phil Gould and Daniel Anderson perform at Penrith and Parramatta, respectively.
But there are two primary hurdles blocking Bennett’s path back to the club he helped establish in 1988: One financial, one personal.
With head coach Anthony Griffin still on the books next year, it’s unlikely Brisbane will be able to match the $1 million-plus salary Bennett receives at Newcastle.
Then there’s the question of whether Bennett can bring himself to return, given the fall-out with major shareholder News Corp (publisher of The Daily Telegraph) before he left in 2008.
News Corp controls around 60 per cent of the Broncos, although Queensland property developer Phil Murphy has upped his stake to 25 per cent in the past year after buying out minor shareholders Tony Scanlon and John Geaney.

Newcastle Knights coach Wayne Bennett. Source: News Limited


Should Murphy decide to tackle News Corp for the major shareholding, Bennett’s conflict of conscience could be removed. Murphy is also close to two of Bennett’s favourite sons from his 20-year tenure at the Broncos — Andrew Gee and Shane Webcke.
What appears certain is Bennett will not coach a Sydney-based club. According to Dragons players, he promised that much upon leaving St George Illawarra in 2011.
South Sydney might have been an option — as they were when Bennett signed with Newcastle — because of the club’s rich history and 43-year premiership drought. But the Rabbitohs’ decision to re-sign Michael Maguire ended any chance of Bennett heading to Redfern.
Regardless of the ownership tussle, sources close to Bennett maintain he will stay in Newcastle so long as his bank account is satisfied in accordance with the current contract.
While several players and other staff have complained about skipped superannuation contributions and delayed wage payments since Tinkler took over, Bennett’s accounts have been carefully attended.

Newcastle Knights training — Darius Boyd. Source: News Limited


Tinkler might be struggling to maintain his empire, but he didn’t create one by being neglectful of his top assets.
What remains to be seen is the desire of members to keep Bennett, should Tinkler fall. The $10.5 million injection would no doubt help pay his contract, but it would also be needed to satisfy creditors.
One is Newcastle Wests Leagues Club, which is owed money for use of training facilities. Then there’s the murky situation surrounding star players being out of pocket for third-party deals, such as Darius Boyd, who is owed $200,000.
It is understood third-party deals have been struck with companies and figures close to Tinkler, who are refusing to pay on principle because they are owed money from other dealings.
The Knights cannot guarantee the shortfall on Boyd’s deal unless it’s included in the salary cap.

 

[ivanhungryjak]

NATHAN Tinkler’s capacity to maintain control of Newcastle will dictate whether Wayne Bennett stays beyond this season, amid speculation an impending Brisbane Broncos takeover bid could entice the super coach home a year early.With Bennett confiding to friends that his future is clouded because of uncertainty surrounding Newcastle’s ownership, The Daily Telegraph can reveal his four-year deal was done directly with Tinkler’s Hunter Sports Group (HSG) — not the Knights football club.


That means Bennett will become a free agent should HSG relinquish ownership of the Knights — a possibility that remains after Tink¬ler and the members club yesterday negotiated HSG’s $10.5 million bank guarantee to be placed into a joint account.
The Knights were yesterday unable to guarantee that HSG would retain control of the club into the foreseeable future, with the current model only guaranteed to persist throughout discussions with the members and the NRL.
Putting HSG out of the picture will trigger a get-out clause for Bennett, who has spent six years away from his family in Brisbane.
Although his salary and superannuation have been paid on time, the seven-time premiership winner is not ignoring the speculation that surrounds Tinkler’s stewardship.
Sources close to Bennett have confirmed he has expressed private concern over the ownership imbroglio, telling close friends — including a captain from a rival club — that his future beyond this year cannot be guaranteed.




Bennett returns to Brisbane as often as possible to visit his wife and children, and a fairytale finish at the Broncos has been widely mooted.
Rival powerbrokers believe Brisbane are ready to appoint the 64-year-old as a director of football operations, similar to the roles Phil Gould and Daniel Anderson perform at Penrith and Parramatta, respectively.
But there are two primary hurdles blocking Bennett’s path back to the club he helped establish in 1988: One financial, one personal.
With head coach Anthony Griffin still on the books next year, it’s unlikely Brisbane will be able to match the $1 million-plus salary Bennett receives at Newcastle.
Then there’s the question of whether Bennett can bring himself to return, given the fall-out with major shareholder News Corp (publisher of The Daily Telegraph) before he left in 2008.
News Corp controls around 60 per cent of the Broncos, although Queensland property developer Phil Murphy has upped his stake to 25 per cent in the past year after buying out minor shareholders Tony Scanlon and John Geaney.


Should Murphy decide to tackle News Corp for the major shareholding, Bennett’s conflict of conscience could be removed. Murphy is also close to two of Bennett’s favourite sons from his 20-year tenure at the Broncos — Andrew Gee and Shane Webcke.
What appears certain is Bennett will not coach a Sydney-based club. According to Dragons players, he promised that much upon leaving St George Illawarra in 2011.
South Sydney might have been an option — as they were when Bennett signed with Newcastle — because of the club’s rich history and 43-year premiership drought. But the Rabbitohs’ decision to re-sign Michael Maguire ended any chance of Bennett heading to Redfern.
Regardless of the ownership tussle, sources close to Bennett maintain he will stay in Newcastle so long as his bank account is satisfied in accordance with the current contract.
While several players and other staff have complained about skipped superannuation contributions and delayed wage payments since Tinkler took over, Bennett’s accounts have been carefully attended.


Tinkler might be struggling to maintain his empire, but he didn’t create one by being neglectful of his top assets.
What remains to be seen is the desire of members to keep Bennett, should Tinkler fall. The $10.5 million injection would no doubt help pay his contract, but it would also be needed to satisfy creditors.
One is Newcastle Wests Leagues Club, which is owed money for use of training facilities. Then there’s the murky situation surrounding star players being out of pocket for third-party deals, such as Darius Boyd, who is owed $200,000.
It is understood third-party deals have been struck with companies and figures close to Tinkler, who are refusing to pay on principle because they are owed money from other dealings.

Clause out in fight for Wayne Bennett: Super coach free to exit Knights if Nathan Tinkler loses ownership | News.com.au

 

[Ari Gold]

Fact is Hunt never put his hand up when he had a chance to. He failed miserably to impress anyone for 3 years in a row when he had a chance to snare a spot in the halves.

Should he have honed his skills in Qcup? Possibly. But the experience he gained playing first grade is also invaluable...

I sincerely hope he goes on with it and becomes our seven for many years to come, because I believe he has the vision to be a great half. But he is far from convincing me, as he has shown very poor execution in most of the games he played as our leading half.

As to the "bulk, bulk, bulk" talk. I very much doubt that Griffin encouraged anyone to have a main diet of junk food.
It may have been as simple as him asking Guilfoyle to build the players up, and trusting a guy who was with the Broncos for so many years, to do a proper job... When he realised he didn't, he got someone who would.

There are enough things to blame Griffin for, like his atrocious use of the bench and lack of spark in attack, but I'm not so sure about the above two.

It's kind of hard to impress when thrown into the halves when you spend the entire year playing hooker. You may be right that he gained valuable first grade experience playing hooker, but you know what, the value stops at some point and becomes detrimental. Cooper Cronk was a bench utility for a while and I'm sure it helped him, but after 1 year he started as a half and hasn't looked back. And even when he was coming off the bench, he was not being used primarily as a hooker.

Put it another way -- do you think Ashley Taylor would be well served if he spends the next 3 years of his career playing exclusively as a bench dummy half, rather than plying his trade as a half in QLD Cup? I don't think you'll find anyone else on the forums who think Griffin has done a reasonable job with Hunt's development, and for me it is the most serious of his blemishes as a coach with our club.

My point is not that Ben Hunt is a great half. My point in fact has nothing to do with his level of talent, but rather the way Griffin has so poorly gone about trying to nurture it. Which is why I'm not at all sold on him -- we'll have more promising young players come through and I want to believe we have a coach who is capable of helping them be the best they can. I don't think Griffin has shown much in 2012/2013 to prove he's the man to do that.

Can he turn that around in 2014? It would be great if he could, but until he does, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. For me he used that up the past 2 seasons. But if he wants to have a stellar year of coaching, and Hunt and McCullough show massive improvement, then I'll happily eat my words.

 

[rnabokov]

Fact is Hunt never put his hand up when he had a chance to. He failed miserably to impress anyone for 3 years in a row when he had a chance to snare a spot in the halves.

Should he have honed his skills in Qcup? Possibly. But the experience he gained playing first grade is also invaluable...

I sincerely hope he goes on with it and becomes our seven for many years to come, because I believe he has the vision to be a great half. But he is far from convincing me, as he has shown very poor execution in most of the games he played as our leading half.

As to the "bulk, bulk, bulk" talk. I very much doubt that Griffin encouraged anyone to have a main diet of junk food.
It may have been as simple as him asking Guilfoyle to build the players up, and trusting a guy who was with the Broncos for so many years, to do a proper job... When he realised he didn't, he got someone who would.

There are enough things to blame Griffin for, like his atrocious use of the bench and lack of spark in attack, but I'm not so sure about the above two.

I must be missing something. Enlighten me. Wasn't Hunt the former NYC Dally M Player of the Year, a former under-20s player of the year?

So I wonder why he didn't put up his hand? And, btw, for what? Sounds to me like he ought to have been developed and mentored and coached to his strengths, given his undoubted potential.

As for his 1st grade experience, as HS posted, it sounds to me like he went sideways, even backwards, coached a a second string dummy half.

Sorry, to me that is a serious stuff up for which we paid dearly for what ... 3 seasons?

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I see Hunt evolving rapidly with each game he plays, and will turn into a very very good halfback. The way he scored his last try last Friday showed me a player who is smart, reads the play well, is evasive and quicker than people give him credit, mentally and in terms of speed.

 

[Ari Gold]

I sincerely hope he goes on with it and becomes our seven for many years to come, because I believe he has the vision to be a great half. But he is far from convincing me, as he has shown very poor execution in most of the games he played as our leading half.

I actually find this to be contradictive. Good execution comes from repeated practice - Cooper Cronk exemplifies this more than anyone. That Hunt has executed so poorly in the past (and I agree he has) can surely be explained by the fact he's been training over and over to be a hooker, not a half.

And the fact he displays such good vision is surely a reason to want to develop him as a half. I don't see how you can cite poor execution as a half for a reason why he shouldn't have been honing his skills as one.

 

[Big Pete]

So you think in 2012-2013 were not griffins fault? its a results driven business how he still has a job is beyond me.

Glad the Broncos didn't take that piece of advice, Bennett would have been sacked well before 1992.

In fact, he should have been flicked by the Knights in 2012.

I don't think Hook did a lot wrong in 2012, he just wasn't dealt the best hand. Still landed the club a finals appearance which most teams would take.

2013 was a definite black mark but in fairness, the club has identified the issues and done everything to fix them.

Hook still has a lot to prove in 2014, I'm still undecided about his future but I'm fine with being given this season as I feel there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Russell Coight]

Glad the Broncos didn't take that piece of advice, Bennett would have been sacked well before 1992.

In fact, he should have been flicked by the Knights in 2012.

I don't think Hook did a lot wrong in 2012, he just wasn't dealt the best hand. Still landed the club a finals appearance which most teams would take.

2013 was a definite black mark but in fairness, the club has identified the issues and done everything to fix them.

Hook still has a lot to prove in 2014, I'm still undecided about his future but I'm fine with being given this season as I feel there is plenty of blame to go around.

So in all seriousness do you see Hook being a longterm coach?

 

[Porthoz]

I actually find this to be contradictive. Good execution comes from repeated practice - Cooper Cronk exemplifies this more than anyone. That Hunt has executed so poorly in the past (and I agree he has) can surely be explained by the fact he's been training over and over to be a hooker, not a half.

And the fact he displays such good vision is surely a reason to want to develop him as a half. I don't see how you can cite poor execution as a half for a reason why he shouldn't have been honing his skills as one.

It's not a contradiction. Even as a bench hooker, he should still be able to execute his passing and kicking flawlessly.
Those are skills well practised by hookers, and I really only need to name Farah, Smith or even our own Macca to illustrate that.
I very much doubt that training with the Broncos FG squad has somehow limited or even diminished his execution ability. If anything, his passing and kicking should have only improved. Besides, this also allowed him to learn from Rugby League's God... Darren Lockyer!

The only thing he missed on by not plying his trade in Qcup as a halfback, is the experience that comes with leading a team around, and perhaps also how or when to time your moments, although he seems to be pretty apt at this, and he more often than not will make the right choice... but this is where the poor execution comes into play.

We'll see if he has it in him to be a consistent capable half.
I think someone already said something like that, but I'll be a happy man if Ben Hunt is able to perform at 80% of what he did against the Roosters on a weekly basis average. He certainly wasn't responsible for the team's loss, and thoroughly deserved the MOTM award in a losing team!

 

[Big Pete]

So in all seriousness do you see Hook being a longterm coach?

Jury is out until the end of this season.

He does have the most important aspect covered, he's got the players playing for him and themselves.

 

[Russell Coight]

NRL Premiership | The Lurker - NRL Rumour File - Friday Bennett kev rumours are back. Pray they are true. Will finally get my enthusiasm back

 

[jarro65]

NRL Premiership | The Lurker - NRL Rumour File - Friday Bennett kev rumours are back. Pray they are true. Will finally get my enthusiasm back

So where exactly does Griffin fit into that equation ?

I'd like to think that if Bennett/Walters came next year that Griffin could still have a position with us somewhere.

He still has lots to offer ...... doesn't he ??

 

[Russell Coight]

Hopefully is involvement is no involvement at all

 

[BroncosFan_Corey]

So where exactly does Griffin fit into that equation ?

I'd like to think that if Bennett/Walters came next year that Griffin could still have a position with us somewhere.

He still has lots to offer ...... doesn't he ??

He could wash the jerseys?

 

[Super Freak]

Walters can **** off. He is no better than Griffin.

 

[jarro65]

Walters can **** off. He is no better than Griffin.

How do we know though ?

He hasn't coached an NRL side yet.

 

[Super Freak]

How do we know though ?

He hasn't coached an NRL side yet.

No, but he has been a head coach and he sucked at it.

That was in a weaker comp, what do you think would happen in the NRL?