Storm for Wooden Spoon - Betting Suspended

[Nashy]

and nashy, how do you know that our salary cap breach in 2006 was less than Melbourns? please provide the figures of both teams' breaches, with links. for all we know, the unapproved third party payment couldve been for 300k, whereas all things point toward melbourne being maybe $100k at the very very most over in 2006. remember, for the years of 06/07/08 they were only over $600k. 2006 was their first successful year, so they wouldnt have all been on the big money. 2007 was their first premiership, so 2008 wouldve been where most of that $600k was.

Broncos

2006

Unapproved TPA

31/05/07



$30,000


http://www.nrl.com/news/news/newsarticl ... fault.aspx

Ok, you can go away now.

Hang on. That's wrong.

Ok Nashy, you can go away now

Difference between myself and your brother. I just admitted I was wrong.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

So lets just jump on them immediately and say they knew then, saying that any player signing 2 contracts is stupid? There is no logic behind the players knowing, the less ppl that knew, the better for them to get away with it.

Obviously there is a chance some of the higher profile players knew, but from all evidence so far, no-one coaching staff or players knew, and until proven otherwise i think u guys can stick to hating the storm for the real reasons, not making up new ones. Uve got enough ammo as it is!

You're an idiot or extremely naive or both.

These players had official, legitimate contracts registered with the NRL. The only way these contracts get registered is with the players signatures. These contracts would have had their yearly, 'official' salary on them. Players knew what they are meant to be earning.

Whether they agreed to or just didn't ask questions about the extra money that made it into their possesion isn't the point. The fact is the players WOULD have been well aware of what was happening when the balance of their bank account exceeds the number printed on the OFFICIAL NRL CONTRACT that THEY signed.

oh im sorry, do u sign nrl contracts every day?

How do u know what a 3rd party contract looks like?

How do we know that players dont sign the contract with the 3rd party, and get told by the admin that a copy will be forwarded to the NRL?

Pot calling the kettle black

 

[Charmamba]

it was still nothing compared to the Storms.

 

[BroncoMatt]

Thats exactly right though. Why would they question it? They would assume the club was being honest. If they got a 3rd party deal, they would assume it was being reported. I highly doubt any of the players knew

Surely it must be more of an elaborate scheme than that? It had to involve secret bank accounts, brown paper bags, payments to the wives credit cards etc? Otherwise Schubert would of caught on before now. Surely [icon_shru

It probably was more elaborate, but the fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to suggest players knew, and as i said earlier, surely the less ppl knew the better, so while it was probably a very elaborate scheme, id be very surprised if the players were part of it.

But aren't the NRL auditors allowed access to the players bank accounts and group certificates? How couldnt the players known they were getting more??

 

[Nashy]

It really doesn't matter what they are signing. For all we know, player managers are in on it too. Who knows?

Not to mention, the sort of money some of these players could be earning legally? They probably send it straight to an accountant, or a financial planner, who then does what they will.

Most of them own houses and business'. There is no way someone playing with the amount of money, and business income and outgoings is going to be able to tell that they have earnt an extra $15,000 over the past few months.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Thats exactly right though. Why would they question it? They would assume the club was being honest. If they got a 3rd party deal, they would assume it was being reported. I highly doubt any of the players knew

Surely it must be more of an elaborate scheme than that? It had to involve secret bank accounts, brown paper bags, payments to the wives credit cards etc? Otherwise Schubert would of caught on before now. Surely [icon_shru

It probably was more elaborate, but the fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to suggest players knew, and as i said earlier, surely the less ppl knew the better, so while it was probably a very elaborate scheme, id be very surprised if the players were part of it.

But aren't the NRL auditors allowed access to the players bank accounts and group certificates? How couldnt the players known they were getting more??

More than what?!!! Lets take Cam smith for example.

They mightve sat him and down and said "ok cam, u get 500 K a season, plus fox news will pay u 50 K to talk on their show once a week." So he goes away thinking hes getting $550k.

He gets that money deposited into his bank account, everything is fine.

Little does he know the 3rd party contract isnt registered with the NRL.

Where in that could Smith have known somethign was going on?

Obviously i dont know the workings of these contracts, but neither do any of us, so why are we all assuming the players knew?

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

It really doesn't matter what they are signing. For all we know, player managers are in on it too. Who knows?

Not to mention, the sort of money some of these players could be earning legally? They probably send it straight to an accountant, or a financial planner, who then does what they will.

Most of them own houses and business'. There is no way someone playing with the amount of money, and business income and outgoings is going to be able to tell that they have earnt an extra $15,000 over the past few months.

We can agree on that

 

[Jeba]

If AP is stupid enough to compare minor salary cap breaches to Melbourne's, well geez I dunno, 2 + 2 is 4!!!!!!!!!

 

[Charmamba]

Can not believe how active the forum is at 12:30

 

[m1c]

Thats exactly right though. Why would they question it? They would assume the club was being honest. If they got a 3rd party deal, they would assume it was being reported. I highly doubt any of the players knew

Surely it must be more of an elaborate scheme than that? It had to involve secret bank accounts, brown paper bags, payments to the wives credit cards etc? Otherwise Schubert would of caught on before now. Surely [icon_shru

It probably was more elaborate, but the fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to suggest players knew, and as i said earlier, surely the less ppl knew the better, so while it was probably a very elaborate scheme, id be very surprised if the players were part of it.

But aren't the NRL auditors allowed access to the players bank accounts and group certificates? How couldnt the players known they were getting more??

More than what?!!! Lets take Cam smith for example.

They mightve sat him and down and said "ok cam, u get 500 K a season, plus fox news will pay u 50 K to talk on their show once a week." So he goes away thinking hes getting $550k.

He gets that money deposited into his bank account, everything is fine.

Little does he know the 3rd party contract isnt registered with the NRL.

Where in that could Smith have known somethign was going on?

Obviously i dont know the workings of these contracts, but neither do any of us, so why are we all assuming the players knew?

Fairly certain when the NRL check his income against the contract he signed and notice he has 50k more than he should.. That doesn't take 5 years to find out. There is no way the scenario you described could have played out. This is easily detected.

It would have to be a highly elaborate scheme that the players would have no doubts been aware of. Surely you know not everything is above board when your wife gets 50k put on her credit card or youre paid in cash this month..

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

[quote="QUEENSLANDER":96joted6]Thats exactly right though. Why would they question it? They would assume the club was being honest. If they got a 3rd party deal, they would assume it was being reported. I highly doubt any of the players knew

Surely it must be more of an elaborate scheme than that? It had to involve secret bank accounts, brown paper bags, payments to the wives credit cards etc? Otherwise Schubert would of caught on before now. Surely [icon_shru

It probably was more elaborate, but the fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to suggest players knew, and as i said earlier, surely the less ppl knew the better, so while it was probably a very elaborate scheme, id be very surprised if the players were part of it.

But aren't the NRL auditors allowed access to the players bank accounts and group certificates? How couldnt the players known they were getting more??

More than what?!!! Lets take Cam smith for example.

They mightve sat him and down and said "ok cam, u get 500 K a season, plus fox news will pay u 50 K to talk on their show once a week." So he goes away thinking hes getting $550k.

He gets that money deposited into his bank account, everything is fine.

Little does he know the 3rd party contract isnt registered with the NRL.

Where in that could Smith have known somethign was going on?

Obviously i dont know the workings of these contracts, but neither do any of us, so why are we all assuming the players knew?

Fairly certain when the NRL check his income against the contract he signed and notice he has 50k more than he should.. That doesn't take 5 years to find out. There is no way the scenario you described could have played out. This is easily detected.

It would have to be a highly elaborate scheme that the players would have no doubts been aware of. Surely you know not everything is above board when your wife gets 50k put on her credit card or youre paid in cash this month..[/quote:96joted6]

Again with the creation of information. We have no idea how or where the money was deposited. But ur probably right, every single storm player knew, including his wife, and yet no-one let it slip to anyone in 5 years. Brilliant

 

[BroncoMatt]

Thats exactly right though. Why would they question it? They would assume the club was being honest. If they got a 3rd party deal, they would assume it was being reported. I highly doubt any of the players knew

Surely it must be more of an elaborate scheme than that? It had to involve secret bank accounts, brown paper bags, payments to the wives credit cards etc? Otherwise Schubert would of caught on before now. Surely [icon_shru

It probably was more elaborate, but the fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to suggest players knew, and as i said earlier, surely the less ppl knew the better, so while it was probably a very elaborate scheme, id be very surprised if the players were part of it.

But aren't the NRL auditors allowed access to the players bank accounts and group certificates? How couldnt the players known they were getting more??

More than what?!!! Lets take Cam smith for example.

They mightve sat him and down and said "ok cam, u get 500 K a season, plus fox news will pay u 50 K to talk on their show once a week." So he goes away thinking hes getting $550k.

He gets that money deposited into his bank account, everything is fine.

Little does he know the 3rd party contract isnt registered with the NRL.

Where in that could Smith have known somethign was going on?

Obviously i dont know the workings of these contracts, but neither do any of us, so why are we all assuming the players knew?

Unless Ive missed something, this is not a case of Melbourne covering up 3rd party payments. Waldron was running 2 sets of books, which implicates 2 sets of payments, one of which would have been declared in a NRL contract, the balance not.

The Storm saying they are paying (Player X) $500k - The NRL Auditors cross reference this information with financial records provided by (Player X) & or the Storm. The first thing they look for is any discrepancy particularly coming from a 3rd party.
My point is this money must of been paid on the sly - to a different account etc . Surely players or at least the player managers knew this?

 

[Charmamba]

Matt's point does make the most sense. I think everyone is forgetting the whole 2 books thing.

 

[Anonymous person]

If AP is stupid enough to compare minor salary cap breaches to Melbourne's, well geez I dunno, 2 + 2 is 4!!!!!!!!!

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok to only cheat a little bit every year, as long as it's not too much?

Cheating is cheating. Last time I checked, a 'minor' salary cap breach was still a salary cap breach, and an attempt to avoid the salary cap is cheating. Answer me this question Jeb - did the Broncos cheat in 2006?

 

[ningnangnong]

Going by your logic, every time someone commits a foul in a game and is penalised, they are cheats.

Even though they were penalised for committing that foul, they are still cheats and forever will be.

Broncos were punished according to the offences they committed, just as the Storm have been.

 

[Anonymous person]

Huh? That's not at all what I said lol.

The broncos cheated the salary cap in 2006. This cannot be denied - the NRL even fined them for cheating. Melbourne do the same and they lose 5 years of work, when the broncos didn't even lose a weeks worth, let alone a premiership?

It's also harder on the storm because they are getting charged for 5 years of breaches all in one go. The broncos cheated in 01, 02, 03 but weren't charged in 03 for all 3 years at once, so why are Melbourne?

 

[Professor47]

I actually think it is a harsh call about the titles - really tough for the players.
I highly doubt the players knew about it (we'll see) - certainly not to that extent IMO... I dead set don't think the player group as a whole would knowingly go through a dodgy evil master plan like that.
I reckon its a harsh penalty for the players - to strip them of their achievements is a tough pill to swallow... I don't think the players themselves deserve that.
I acknowledge and understand that they should never have been in that position in the first place because they were cheating.
In saying that I suppose it's for the better - I mean you can't have them as premiers because they cheated too and it would just be unprofessional to have an Astrix or certain condition imprinted in the record books to their titles...
I admit I can't really think of a better solution.

Either way I think this puts a dark mark on RL as a sport and organisation and it just proves that RL SERIOUSLY needs to get its act together... the game NEEDS a friggin overhaul. Out with the old and in with the new IMO. Time for a change in the whole system.

I would also like to add I think the Storm's administration and the people behind it are absolute dickheads and cheats who have basically made RL look like a farce now. It is embarrassing to the sport. Honestly. Shame on them. Don't deserve to be RL fans.

A sad day for RL indeed.

 

[Professor47]

AP - agree the stripping of title is harsh but I really don't see an alternative... your argument with minor breaches vs Major breaches is weak IMO - it is just not logical. However as you and Coxy said - the players shed blood and tears on this... their achievements should not be null and void is a solid point. However:

I fully support the stripping of premierships. They are no longer valid as they were won through a system of cheating and disloyalty.

The players are an unfortunate by-product of this punishment (assuming, for arguments sake, that they had no idea), but that's life.

An entire team is punished when one player gets suspended, just as an entire club is punished when members of the management stuff up. Such is the nature of professional sport.

Best post of this thread. It's harsh but seriously... that's just the way it is.