NEWS Top Bronco sends SOS to Israel

[Huge]

The typical reply I've got from discussions with religious people is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Its a strange notion because it can be applied to almost anything.
I cannot disprove purple octopuses live on the dark side of the moon, ergo purple octopuses must live on the dark side of the moon.
The other one is "God works in mysterious ways" which is cop-out speak for " i cant answer that with anything other than nonsense".

The fear of death, and what comes after really drives people to desperately seek reassurance, the church monopolized on this very early on and have established themselves ever since.

Truthfully, the fear of death has always been the basis of religion. Human beings cannot imagine a universe without them in it yet for 13 or 14 billion years that has been the case and the place got along fine without us. What most people never understand is that the human stain will be wiped from the earth at some future date and the universe will continue without ever having known we were here. We are utterly unimportant and our passing unremarkable, such is the indifference of the universe .

We are arrogant beyond belief. We honestly believe we matter and for many that arrogance extends to believing a space fairy , a creator of all of it did it JUST FOR THEM!! That belief I find so absurd as to genuinely be both laughable and insane.

Okay, just realised I should have written this in a different thread. Stupid of me. Please move mods if you wish to.

 

[Kimlo]

Yawn.

 

[rnabokov]

Truthfully, the fear of death has always been the basis of religion. Human beings cannot imagine a universe without them in it yet for 13 or 14 billion years that has been the case and the place got along fine without us. What most people never understand is that the human stain will be wiped from the earth at some future date and the universe will continue without ever having known we were here. We are utterly unimportant and our passing unremarkable, such is the indifference of the universe .

We are arrogant beyond belief. We honestly believe we matter and for many that arrogance extends to believing a space fairy , a creator of all of it did it JUST FOR THEM!! That belief I find so absurd as to genuinely be both laughable and insane.

Okay, just realised I should have written this in a different thread. Stupid of me. Please move mods if you wish to.

Absolutely mate, and to punish us for our arrogance and indifference, God sent Seibold,

It all makes sense now.

 

[Morepudding]

The whole issue about the post was that it could be dangerous for the young minorities. The 10 year old kid that follows him on Instagram that thinks he/she is gay.

Everyone can have their views and opinions, but when you are in a position of power / are influential for young kids you need to be extra mindful.

At the end of the day, the real reason there is issue with it is because everyone is a snowflake these days. Can’t say anything that could offend someone somewhere. It’s ridiculous, but it’s where we are at and he should have just removed the post and it would have been fine.

 

[john1420]

I agree, however the point is, that Izzy has done nothing illegal, or anything that should bar him from employment.
Is there better ways to promote his faith? For sure, but he is also well within his rights, according to the law, to promote his religion however he see's fit.

Additionally, what he is posting is not wrong according to his faith. If you take Izzy out of the picture for a minute, both the Bible and the Quran both teach what Izzy was posting.
So long as it is legal for Izzy to preach to the public his beliefs, then he is free to preach it how he wants without restriction from people who don't agree with him, certainly not to the point of telling him he is free to preach so long as he does it how we want him to do it or he wont be allowed to play football.
That has moved to the illusion of free speech at that point.

The bottom line is, Israel is being barred from employment because he preaches his faith.
He has done nothing illegal and to deny him employment on these grounds is religious discrimination.

Yep, not in any way arguing with you mate.
I think allowing guys like Packer to play while not allowing Izzy to play is utterly indefensible.
Izzy should be allowed to play, but I'm OK with the NRL having it in his contract that he cannot publicly (ie social media) promote views that are inconsistent with his employer.

 

[Sproj]

Yep, not in any way arguing with you mate.
I think allowing guys like Packer to play while not allowing Izzy to play is utterly indefensible.
Izzy should be allowed to play, but I'm OK with the NRL having it in his contract that he cannot publicly (ie social media) promote views that are inconsistent with his employer.

That’s a bit of a slippery slope though. I sure don’t always have consistent views with my employer and sometimes that is good for change.

I get the point you are making but you’d have to be very careful and specific with the wording and I’m not convinced the NRL are professional or smart enough to do it.

 

[abashii]

I agree, however the point is, that Izzy has done nothing illegal, or anything that should bar him from employment.
Is there better ways to promote his faith? For sure, but he is also well within his rights, according to the law, to promote his religion however he see's fit.

Additionally, what he is posting is not wrong according to his faith. If you take Izzy out of the picture for a minute, both the Bible and the Quran both teach what Izzy was posting.
So long as it is legal for Izzy to preach to the public his beliefs, then he is free to preach it how he wants without restriction from people who don't agree with him, certainly not to the point of telling him he is free to preach so long as he does it how we want him to do it or he wont be allowed to play football.
That has moved to the illusion of free speech at that point.

The bottom line is, Israel is being barred from employment because he preaches his faith.
He has done nothing illegal and to deny him employment on these grounds is religious discrimination.

How's that a freedom of speech issue? Izzy isn't being restrained from saying anything and he's not being barred from employment any more than Todd Carney was. If a commercial entity like the NRL, dependent on public goodwill and marketability to sponsors for its income and ultimately its existence, doesn't want to employ known troublemakers and rabble-rousers who in its opinion are not worth the commercial risk then why is that a free speech issue?

 

[broncos4life]

How's that a freedom of speech issue? Izzy isn't being restrained from saying anything and he's not being barred from employment any more than Todd Carney was. If a commercial entity like the NRL, dependent on public goodwill and marketability to sponsors for its income and ultimately its existence, doesn't want to employ known troublemakers and rabble-rousers who in its opinion are not worth the commercial risk then why is that a free speech issue?

It's not, the only reason it is a freedom of speech issue is that most of the population, including many on here don't actually understand what that term means despite it being explained numerous times.

 

[Painin the Haas]

On Triple M this morning Dobbo said it’s a no on Folau (even though last week he tipped it happening). Apparently we were tempted but got a hard no from somewhere, most likely sponsors

 

[Midean]

How's that a freedom of speech issue? Izzy isn't being restrained from saying anything and he's not being barred from employment any more than Todd Carney was. If a commercial entity like the NRL, dependent on public goodwill and marketability to sponsors for its income and ultimately its existence, doesn't want to employ known troublemakers and rabble-rousers who in its opinion are not worth the commercial risk then why is that a free speech issue?

He is being refused employment based on his actions, that are dictated by his faith.
This is why i said earlier that the NRL are being delicate in regards to Izzy, because once he is employed, its far harder to regulate his actions, as the ARU found out.
I do not for one second blame the NRL for being tentative in regards to employing Izzy, and they have every right not to employ him for wahtever reason they decide to use.
After what happened with the ARU and his payout from them, i wouldn't hire him either because its a minefield of legal complications if you try to write up a contract barring him from sharing his religious beliefs which then fall under discrimination.

 

[abashii]

He is being refused employment based on his actions, that are dictated by his faith.

He's potentially being refused employment because his actions as a public figure are detrimental to the league's ability to attract sponsors and will result in damaging its public image. He's not an anonymous guy handling parts orders at Springwood Nissan being told he can't have the job because he goes to the wrong type of church, NRL players are by nature public figures and he's been shown to be unable to perform adequately in that role.

What you're talking about isn't freedom of speech, it's freedom from consequences.

 

[Sproj]

On Triple M this morning Dobbo said it’s a no on Folau (even though last week he tipped it happening). Apparently we were tempted but got a hard no from somewhere, most likely sponsors

Most likely from the Roosters. They are just waiting for everyone to be told no before going to the NRL and getting it approved for 50k and a possible trip to the UK.

 

[Midean]

He's potentially being refused employment because his actions as a public figure are detrimental to the league's ability to attract sponsors and will result in damaging its public image. He's not an anonymous guy handling parts orders at Springwood Nissan being told he can't have the job because he goes to the wrong type of church, NRL players are by nature public figures and he's been shown to be unable to perform adequately in that role.

What you're talking about isn't freedom of speech, it's freedom from consequences.

Yes and no. Ultimately, Israel is not a troublemaker, he doesn't beat his misses, he doesn't drink and drive and he doesn't get into fights. In fact Israel is a model footballer and outstanding role model, if you take his crazy religious antics out of the equation. So the only determining factor is his public proclamations in regards to his faith.
You also have to look at the image of the NRL on the other foot.
Inclusiveness doesn't look so great when you exclude a religious person on the grounds of preaching their faith.
The NRL are being very careful with this and rightfully so.

 

[Midean]

It's not, the only reason it is a freedom of speech issue is that most of the population, including many on here don't actually understand what that term means despite it being explained numerous times.

Thats why the ARU payed him out millions of dollars huh. /eyeroll

Its more a discrimination issue than freedom of speech, but they go hand in hand in this case, as he was fired from the ARU for practicing his freedom of speech.
That is discrimination on religious grounds.
Thats why they settled out of court.

 

[Foordy]

Thats why the ARU payed him out millions of dollars huh. /eyeroll

Its more a discrimination issue than freedom of speech, but they go hand in hand in this case, as he was fired from the ARU for practicing his freedom of speech.
That is discrimination on religious grounds.
Thats why they settled out of court.

the ARU paid him millions of dollars either because they forgot where they put their balls, they fucked up their contract with him; it would have cost them more to fight it or a combination of all 3.

BTW, this isn't the US, our constitution technically doesn't include the freedom of speech.

 

[Midean]

the ARU paid him millions of dollars either because they forgot where the put their balls, they fucked up their contract with him; it would have cost them more to fight it or a combination of all 3.

BTW, this isn't the US, our constitution technically doesn't include the freedom of speech.

Yea its weird, there are certain discrimination laws that cover religious practices, but no concrete laws against religious discrimination by itself.
Same with freedom of speech.
Makes you wonder just how bad the ARU fucked up.

 

[Foordy]

Yea its weird, their are certain discrimination laws that cover religious practices, but no concrete laws against religious discrimination by itself.
Same with freedom of speech.
Makes you wonder just how bad the ARU fucked up.

Freedom of Expression/Anti-discrimination legislation, doesn't necessarily help Folau in this case given you can't discriminate against people on the basis of their sexual orientation, which Folau arguably does with his repeated social media posts.

it would have been far more clear cut for Folau if we had the US constitutional amendments of freedom of religion/freedom of speech.

besides there is no law saying that the Dragons/Broncos or whoever need to offer him a contract; or that the NRL need to register said contract. you may not be able to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion, but even the NRL aren't stupid enough to make that the official reason of rejecting his contract.

 

[Dash]

Thats why the ARU payed him out millions of dollars huh. /eyeroll

Its more a discrimination issue than freedom of speech, but they go hand in hand in this case, as he was fired from the ARU for practicing his freedom of speech.
That is discrimination on religious grounds.
Thats why they settled out of court.

Where did this "millions of dollars" payout figure come from, Facebook?

For one, it was confidential so nobody knows what it was. Two, if it was going to cost that much to settle they would have fought it because "millions of dollars" was the absolute maximum they would have had to pay.