NEWS White: Seibold will win a premiership

[Super Freak]

He will deliver us a premiership.

It's just not going to be this year.

 

[Sproj]

Then good luck to Seibold making the 8, this year or the next. While at Redfern, cabinet space is being adjusted for another premiership trophy.

I have not been impressed by Siebs at all so far, I think he has displayed zero ingenuity or anything at all that justifies his hype and his bench use is among the worst I’ve ever seen. He looks like he is trying to copy and paste Bennett’s Broncos and that is where this side has been inherited from.

Wayne has put this club in this predicament. He let Taylor walk (maybe it will turn out to not be that big a loss but at the time I remember clearly thinking it was a Sherwin/JT style decision). He signed Boyd and Macca to long-term contracts and his GF tilt was built on the side Hook had assembled minus Blair and Boyd really.

Bennett also seems to have coached Milford into a spud. Bennett needed to go and while he did a lot of good, he also has a lot to answer for. There needed to be a coaching change and at the time, Siebs seemed the no brainer decision.

Right now, it looks a bad decision but let’s wait and see what happens if and hopefully when he actually starts to make the big, necessary decisions.

 

[007]

I have not been impressed by Siebs at all so far, I think he has displayed zero ingenuity or anything at all that justifies his hype and his bench use is among the worst I’ve ever seen. He looks like he is trying to copy and paste Bennett’s Broncos and that is where this side has been inherited from.

Wayne has put this club in this predicament. He let Taylor walk (maybe it will turn out to not be that big a loss but at the time I remember clearly thinking it was a Sherwin/JT style decision). He signed Boyd and Macca to long-term contracts and his GF tilt was built on the side Hook had assembled minus Blair and Boyd really.

Bennett also seems to have coached Milford into a spud. Bennett needed to go and while he did a lot of good, he also has a lot to answer for. There needed to be a coaching change and at the time, Siebs seemed the no brainer decision.

Right now, it looks a bad decision but let’s wait and see what happens if and hopefully when he actually starts to make the big, necessary decisions.

Some perspective to add, and for me the most frustrating.

The squad we have now is the result of WB choices. The squad we have in the future is also hampered heavily from WB previous choices. Leadership, halves and playing group attitude is a result of him and the walkout.

Those who complain we kicked WB out - get over it. It was the right thing to do, be it he was playing games or not. The results we have now are purely from how its been setup. Paying the prices and the long term contracts we did to certain players has shoe strung the roster, for examples WB's greatest hits includes:

Milford - 1.0M - 2021
Boyd - 750K - 2021
Bird - 700K - 2021?
TPJ - 600k? - Off contract (cannot find contract value for him)
Roberts - 500K - 2021
Haas - 500K - 2022
Total: 4.05M for 6 players average of 680K. 9.8m cap for 2020 leaves an average of 200K for the remaining 24 players, min contract being 110K.

The only player to be worth their money currently is Haas, who had a fantastic game today against Canberra and performed like a guy who's in his late 20's. We have just under half of our cap soaked up with guys in and out of form, discipline and injury.

The other three off contract holding descent numbers in our cap is Oates, Glenn and Lodge - we must keep Oates/Lodge and to some extent Glenn. I cannot figure out where Lodge sits dollar wise currently and if its been agreed etc. We cannot afford to pay TPJ 1.0m as this will reduce average salary down to 180K for the remaining 24 players.

Seibold doesn't have much to wiggle with - especially considering we don't have a red hot game organiser in the ranks nor is there any on the market any time soon. There is no immediate fix to the problem, and hence the reason the bench rotation is strange, but this is also to get young guys in and up to speed quicker probably in preparation for next seasons roster. He has no choice but to play the long game to correct the gamble that WB took. IMO the young guys are doing great! Considering the lack of experience they have held up well.

I think WB was hoping last year would be the season to have another tilt, or this year, under the budget half and hooker combo - which astounds me the way the current game is played. All his chips were put everywhere else in the squad.

 

[Thelmus]

Some perspective to add, and for me the most frustrating.

The squad we have now is the result of WB choices. The squad we have in the future is also hampered heavily from WB previous choices. Leadership, halves and playing group attitude is a result of him and the walkout.

Those who complain we kicked WB out - get over it. It was the right thing to do, be it he was playing games or not. The results we have now are purely from how its been setup. Paying the prices and the long term contracts we did to certain players has shoe strung the roster, for examples WB's greatest hits includes:

Milford - 1.0M - 2021
Boyd - 750K - 2021
Bird - 700K - 2021?
TPJ - 600k? - Off contract (cannot find contract value for him)
Roberts - 500K - 2021
Haas - 500K - 2022
Total: 4.05M for 6 players average of 680K. 9.8m cap for 2020 leaves an average of 200K for the remaining 24 players, min contract being 110K.

The only player to be worth their money currently is Haas, who had a fantastic game today against Canberra and performed like a guy who's in his late 20's. We have just under half of our cap soaked up with guys in and out of form, discipline and injury.

The other three off contract holding descent numbers in our cap is Oates, Glenn and Lodge - we must keep Oates/Lodge and to some extent Glenn. I cannot figure out where Lodge sits dollar wise currently and if its been agreed etc. We cannot afford to pay TPJ 1.0m as this will reduce average salary down to 180K for the remaining 24 players.

Seibold doesn't have much to wiggle with - especially considering we don't have a red hot game organiser in the ranks nor is there any on the market any time soon. There is no immediate fix to the problem, and hence the reason the bench rotation is strange, but this is also to get young guys in and up to speed quicker probably in preparation for next seasons roster. He has no choice but to play the long game to correct the gamble that WB took. IMO the young guys are doing great! Considering the lack of experience they have held up well.

I think WB was hoping last year would be the season to have another tilt, or this year, under the budget half and hooker combo - which astounds me the way the current game is played. All his chips were put everywhere else in the squad.

Every team that under performs looks like it has overpayed players but it is cop out to suggest the same players that got us to the 8 last year and made origin and tests have suddenly lost all their ability.
The truth is they are not playing close to their potential, either as individual players, or as a team. Whatever systems siebold had put in best be fast tracked or abandoned if the year is to be anything more than a glorified training run for 2020.
The problem is, the team isn't improving despite what some have said. We can score all the beautiful tries we like and they will mean nothing if our opponents score more.
We've looked better since the roosters but how much is due to us simply playing lesser teams ?
This team needs leadership and direction and if they constantly fail to find it, we best bring in someone who can.

 

[Super Freak]

The other three off contract holding descent numbers in our cap is Oates, Glenn and Lodge - we must keep Oates/Lodge and to some extent Glenn. I cannot figure out where Lodge sits dollar wise currently and if its been agreed etc. We cannot afford to pay TPJ 1.0m as this will reduce average salary down to 180K for the remaining 24 players.

Lodge isn't off-contract.

 

[The Strapper]

He will deliver us a premiership.

It's just not going to be this year.

Good to see someone has some confidence amidst all this doom and gloom
Now I just need to know which year do you think it will be?

 

[winslow_wong]

Good to see someone has some confidence amidst all this doom and gloom
Now I just need to know which year do you think it will be?

Wayne did the smart thing when he returned in 2015 and quickly gave himself a disclaimer. He said the broncos would need 3 years to get there. Now that never eventuated but everyone at least waited 3 years. So I’m willing to give seibold 2 years firstly to see changes in tactics and improvements.

 

[tommy]

I'm still backing him. It was always going to take time. We were living in fantasyland in pre-season, thinking the same squad was suddenly going to be amazing just by changing the coach.

 

[Unbreakable]

2015 - 15.79 points conceded per game (2nd)

2016 - 18.08 points conceded per game (5th-6th)

2017 - 18.04 points conceded per game (3rd-4th)

2018 - 20.83 points conceded per game (7th-8th)

2019 - 23.50 points conceded per game (14th)

I'm not great at spotting trends, can anyone see one?

 

[broncsgoat]

Wayne did the smart thing when he returned in 2015 and quickly gave himself a disclaimer. He said the broncos would need 3 years to get there. Now that never eventuated but everyone at least waited 3 years. So I’m willing to give seibold 2 years firstly to see changes in tactics and improvements.

Wayne didn’t expect us to be so successful so soon, then the grand final happened and the team were mentally cooked for the following years.

 

[winslow_wong]

Wayne didn’t expect us to be so successful so soon, then the grand final happened and the team were mentally cooked for the following years.

That’s what I’m calling the Wayne Bennett factor. As soon as he arrives anywhere in the first year, players are empowered and play out of their skin. Happened at the dragons, knights and even New Zealand national team. Seeing it at the rabbits too.

 

[Gaz]

We can’t have rebuilding years

Yes rebuilding is a dirty word that no CEO or club wants to identify with.
It no doubt sends a message to the fans, sponsors and in our case shareholders that our team is currently not good enough.

But I think it goes further then that in so much it indicates the club has not been reinventing itself as it should. Put simply it hasn't kept up.

By reinventing itself I’m talking about adjusting the roster if and when an opportunity presents itself. The Roosters moved on Pearce to make way for Cronk, Ferguson for Hall - both at the time NSW origin representatives. As such they have an up to date side that Robinson just needs to tweak week to week to be ultra competitive. Not saying we should go to those extremes but that we should be doing our due diligence.

I agree therefore with White - we can’t have rebuilding years - so we are doing that on the run and it’s not ideal. Proof is running on two 19yr old props in a must win game like yesterday. Understand we had injury and bans but we also had Tagers and Mogs floating around. Our younger members are not yet ready for what lays ahead. Clearly Siebold is trying to get them to that point ASAP.

Among other things it’s now become obvious why Bellamy refused to compromise his legacy by taking up our offer to challenge himself with the roster we would provide.

Not withstanding and with all due respect to Seibolds knockers I am one that is more then pleased he agreed to coach our club. WB was taking us nowhere and change was eventually inevitable. What is also inevitable is that change is going to take time, he'll get what he wants and so will we.

Patience.

 

[The Strapper]

Wayne did the smart thing when he returned in 2015 and quickly gave himself a disclaimer. He said the broncos would need 3 years to get there. Now that never eventuated but everyone at least waited 3 years. So I’m willing to give seibold 2 years firstly to see changes in tactics and improvements.

Sounds like you are thinking 2021 could be the year. I hope you're right.
I also make the following observations/comments generally (not directed at anyone in particular).
In no particular order they are:
1. We have had a poor start this year so obviously Seibold is under the pump. But it will now take more than just 1 win to turn things around.
2. I think Whites comments that 'Seibold will deliver us a premiership' are not helpful in the current climate. Seibold was obviously brought here to do that there is no need to re-state it now. It almost sounds like the old "he has the full support of the board" statement and we all know what that means.
3. I am sure somewhere in the interview process a question along the lines of 'where can you take this club in your first season' would have been asked. No idea what Seibolds response was but I am sure it would not have been 'well we won't make the top 8'
I am also pretty sure we will never know.
4. People were more patient with Bennett when he came back because we were in the top 4 nearly all season and came within a whisker of winning the comp. If Seibold gets us anywhere near that effort this year a lot of his critics will quieten down.
5. At some stage this season the Broncos will string a few wins together. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on everything.

 

[Big Pete]

That’s what I’m calling the Wayne Bennett factor. As soon as he arrives anywhere in the first year, players are empowered and play out of their skin. Happened at the dragons, knights and even New Zealand national team. Seeing it at the rabbits too.

That was certainly true of Bennett's last stint at the Broncos, but I wouldn't say the same for St. George or Newcastle. The Dragons played well under Bennett up until he announced his departure, then they went off the rails and the media began accusing Bennett of leaving the club in disarray.

At Newcastle, the Knights started 2012 4-9 and Wayne was up against it from that point on.

 

[winslow_wong]

That was certainly true of Bennett's last stint at the Broncos, but I wouldn't say the same for St. George or Newcastle. The Dragons played well under Bennett up until he announced his departure, then they went off the rails and the media began accusing Bennett of leaving the club in disarray.

At Newcastle, the Knights started 2012 4-9 and Wayne was up against it from that point on.

I wasn’t really saying he necessarily takes them to grand finals but more players give that little bit extra when Bennett arrives. But once that inspiration wanes the players need tactics and coaching to continue with success and that’s where I feel Bennett struggled

 

[Big Pete]

I wasn’t really saying he necessarily takes them to grand finals but more players give that little bit extra when Bennett arrives. But once that inspiration wanes the players need tactics and coaching to continue with success and that’s where I feel Bennett struggled

There was never that honeymoon period at Newcastle and the Dragons played well for Bennett for 2 1/2 years. It was only around the Origin period that the wheels started to fall off for St. George.

 

[pagey]

2015 - 15.79 points conceded per game (2nd)

2016 - 18.08 points conceded per game (5th-6th)

2017 - 18.04 points conceded per game (3rd-4th)

2018 - 20.83 points conceded per game (7th-8th)

2019 - 23.50 points conceded per game (14th)

I'm not great at spotting trends, can anyone see one?

What's the average of points conceded per game in the NRL for those same years? Hasn't it been said that the NRL wanted more tries and open play , would be an interesting comparison.

 

[hench2020]

So out of the 4 applicants for the job, Maguire has won a NRL premiership. Walters has won an origin series. Demetriou has won 2 ISC premierships. Siebold has won what? Maybe a meat tray at the local RSL?

Seibold probably talked about his Harvard course in "team building" or whatever new age nonsense he talks about. We are still in the "forming" phase apparently.