Ben Hunt vs Ash Taylor

[Super Freak]

Can we stop talking about the Grand Final?

 

[Maroon4life]

Yeah but that's just your opinion, fortunately it isn't shared by there people that matter.

The people that matter have us sitting in a slump. Much like you they are not immune too making mistakes :)

 

[rnabokov]

That feeling that we owe Ben his spot is bad business. Don't get me wrong I'm not laying the clubs problems this year at ben's feet but I think we need to look to the future and we need someone with a different skill set. Another club would scoop him up anyway and to that I say salut because he has something to offer, just not to us.

I just can't come at this logic. I think Hunt has a lot to offer us: last year showed that beyond any doubt, and this year's stats point strongly to that. In my view, it is the club which is is failing Ben, not the other way around.

As much as I like Taylor, we don't need him.

For mine it is coaching that's a large part of our problem: and not just halves ... it's a lack of rehearsed moves, creative set plays, over structured rigid formulae. Compare the way we play to the organisation and discipline instilled in the Storm's way of doing things. The moves are set practised, and rehearsed until their in your bones and when the call comes everyone is there waiting for it. They can do it with their eyes closed... same for a few other of the top 4 sides.

There seems to be a set piece for every occasion in their repertoire lol.

Organising? Let Darius come up and do some, and even Macca. experiment, improvise ...

Whatever structures we have aren't working although I will say last week showed me a glimpse of hope, and a lot of that was having Glenn, Gillett and Thaiday (gulp) back in the back row and running ede plays which seems to be what Hunt and Milford really need.

And does anyone remember that Matthew Elliott piece on nrl.com on Milford and Hunt taking apart a defence? Well? Let's do it boys. You have shown you can. What's the problem?

 

[Maroon4life]

I just can't come at this logic. I think Hunt has a lot to offer us: last year showed that beyond any doubt, and this year's stats point strongly to that. In my view, it is the club which is is failing Ben, not the other way around.

As much as I like Taylor, we don't need him.

For mine it is coaching that's a large part of our problem: and not just halves ... it's a lack of rehearsed moves, creative set plays, over structured rigid formulae. Compare the way we play to the organisation and discipline instilled in the Storm's way of doing things. The moves are set practised, and rehearsed until their in your bones and when the call comes everyone is there waiting for it. They can do it with their eyes closed... same for a few other of the top 4 sides.

There seems to be a set piece for every occasion in their repertoire lol.

Organising? Let Darius come up and do some, and even Macca. experiment, improvise ...

Whatever structures we have aren't working although I will say last week showed me a glimpse of hope, and a lot of that was having Glenn, Gillett and Thaiday (gulp) back in the back row and running ede plays which seems to be what Hunt and Milford really need.

And does anyone remember that Matthew Elliott piece on nrl.com on Milford and Hunt taking apart a defence? Well? Let's do it boys. You have shown you can. What's the problem?

The analogy itself is unfair, storms pack is far better which inevitably allows for ally of what they do.

I understand the rest but you can't expect a storm or cowboy like game plan off this team, the pack is made of small props and 80 minute tacklers.

I'm only focusing on Hunt because I believe along with the forward pack it is an area that the Broncos need changes to create a different type of team that will yield consistent results over a long period. A pack of international back rowers and a halfback who lacks conventional halfback skills are my biggest gripe.

 

[Nashy]

If it makes you feel better to blame Hunt for the GF defeat ... go right ahead ... but there are several other key moments that contributed to the loss well before golden point started.

FTR, while he may have won the Clive Churchill medal ... his opposite number didn't have his greatest game either.

Now, If you are implying that we should replace Hunt with Taylor, then there is no way i can even remotely agree with that.

I make no secret of the fact that I am a big fan of young Taylor and think his ceiling is far higher than Hunts is, but right now in 2016 Hunt is the superior player ... probably will be for 2017 as well,

now lets have a look at how bad Hunt is really going this year:

Try Assists: 19... that puts him in 1st place (1 ahead of Thurston and 2 ahead of Cronk; while Taylor has 10 putting him in 24th place)
Line Breaks: 9 which puts hime miles ahead of Cronk who has 5 JT who has 4 and Taylor who has 4
Line Break Assists: 11 (which does put him a bit behind JT who has 18, and just behind Cronk who has 14, but ahead of Taylor who has 9
Tries 5 (half as many as Cronk, but equal with Taylor and ahead of JT who has 2)

and remember Thurston and Cronk are on double Hunt's salary, but he is more than matching it with them.

If our forward pack can regain some form and stop being dominated every week, then Hunt can once again lead us to the GF. but he can't do it behind a beaten pack.

How many tries has he setup off kicks, and how many repeat sets has he forced off the boot?

 

[Super Freak]

How many tries has he setup off kicks, and how many repeat sets has he forced off the boot?

9 by my count. It should be a lot more, but the problem is, most of the time the players don't contest the kicks.

He puts up quite a few good bombs on the line, but all our players do is just stand there and wait for the opposition to get it so they can tackle him.

He put up a good bomb against the Dragons which came close to leading to a try, but Maranta forgot he was supposed to come back in.

As for repeat sets, not as many as it should be. That's something he will need to work on. His short kicking game is better than what people say it is, it's not spectacular but it's not shit, but he has to learn to get it through the legs.

 

[Dash]

9 by my count. It should be a lot more, but the problem is, most of the time the players don't contest the kicks.

He puts up quite a few good bombs on the line, but all our players do is just stand there and wait for the opposition to get it so they can tackle him.

Our biggest problem here is that we have literally nobody who can catch an attacking bomb. The only one who goes close is Kahu, but it's hard to score tries from the grandstand.

Can we convince Wayne to take his christmas holidays in Fiji this year?

 

[Swazii]

Hunt is still the first choice halfback for Broncos.. his current playing form is average and occasionally poor compared to last season. this is something we are comparing with inform Taylor now.. if Hunt was playing as good as last season would you all say Taylor is better then he is right now? If he exploreds back to his best within the last few games remaining this season i just wonder how far we will go.... Hunt is still my first choice halfback.

 

[Nashy]

9 by my count. It should be a lot more, but the problem is, most of the time the players don't contest the kicks.

He puts up quite a few good bombs on the line, but all our players do is just stand there and wait for the opposition to get it so they can tackle him.

He put up a good bomb against the Dragons which came close to leading to a try, but Maranta forgot he was supposed to come back in.

As for repeat sets, not as many as it should be. That's something he will need to work on. His short kicking game is better than what people say it is, it's not spectacular but it's not shit, but he has to learn to get it through the legs.

I notice [MENTION=1769]Foordy[/MENTION] liked this without commenting. This proves that stats don't make a player, and that when people are blowing the wind up a players ass, they have this bad habbit of overlooking the really important stats where the player in question is lacking. And try assists? Come on guys, stop using that stat. It could be the most boring, mundane, no pressure pass that leads to him getting a mark against that stat. Like the times he has passed to Roberts, only for Roberts to do all the work in running around and fending players to get the try, Hunt still gets the stat.

It doesn't matter which way you sugar coat it, or who you try to deflect the blame on. Ben Hunt might put up a bomb or 50 a match, but lets not forget, it's pretty much the only kick he knows he won't **** up time after time. Tries off bombs are nice, but tries of a kick in goal are even nicer.

I also note "came close". When Hook was coach, being good enough, or showing effort was the most hated excuse in the book, because Hook used it all the time. Yet fast forward to now, a lot of people are more than happy with "good enough" "Nearly got this" etc.

Hunt is done. If the club isn't looking for a replacement, I'd be extremely surprised. I hope he proves me wrong, because I fuckin love the kid.

 

[Battler]

Hunt's better right now, but just imagine what we could be in two or three years time with milf, Taylor, Su'a, Pangai hitting their prime.

 

[mitch222]

Hunt's better right now, but just imagine what we could be in two or three years time with milf, Taylor, Su'a, Pangai hitting their prime.

So you want to wait three years for a premiership shot?

 

[winslow_wong]

Surely hunt can learn and be taught how to kick at an elite level... Cronk did it didn't he through just shear stubbornness and determination? Does hunt put in those extra hours to practice?

 

[broncos4life]

So you want to wait three years for a premiership shot?

Why would it be 3 years? We would get to 2018 and there would be another immortal in waiting that we will have to move someone out of the spine for... Can you guess what will happen in 2020?

 

[Maroon4life]

Surely hunt can learn and be taught how to kick at an elite level... Cronk did it didn't he through just shear stubbornness and determination? Does hunt put in those extra hours to practice?

This is why this topic is getting so much attention.

Some people think that he will get his kicking & game management up to an appropriate level to compliment his strong running / ad lib playstyle.

Others think that at his age and the amount of improvement he has shown in those areas since cementing his role as the incumbent #7 it's probably not going to eventuate.

There was a presser a few weeks back which Bennett broached the subject (presumably after Hunt had a bad night with kicking) and he didn't fill fans with a lot of confidence, said something along the lines that Ben Hunt was all we had in that department and he's working on it so there's not much else we can do.

Cooper Cronk analogy isn't right either, Cronk's game was established alot earlier in his career than Hunt's. A game sense like Smith/Lockyer/Thurston & Cronk takes an entire career to develop, were asking Hunt to do it when his career is already in it's chronological decline, hence the requests to get Taylor back, the kid has shown he has the fundamental baseline abilities that just need some development. We can't punnish ourselves because Ben Hunt was held back during Griffin's time at the helm.

 

[Renegade]

If Hunt can learn to kick properly, great, keep him. I have nothing against the guy personally, he just can't kick which is a core component of a halfback.

I am not saying Ash taylor is the solution, I'm saying "X who has a good kicking game" is. If X is Hunt, great, but time's running out for him to be X and they're gonna bin him before they bin Milford, so ... proof is in the pudding, and despite his stats this year, he hasn't played well and he doesn't look to be anything close to what he was last year.

 

[Stix]

I reckon Hunts not far off getting back to some good form.

 

[Foordy]

FTR, i believe Hunt has a decent kicking game ... we have seen him put in a good varied kicking display on occassion (sometimes it even lasts an entire match)

I believe his problem is more related to kick selection than ability.

 

[Nashy]

FTR, i believe Hunt has a decent kicking game ... we have seen him put in a good varied kicking display on occassion (sometimes it even lasts an entire match)

I believe his problem is more related to kick selection than ability.

So he has a good kicking game, but can't pick the right kick, meaning he doesn't actually have a good kicking game? I think he's capable of kicking, just not very well.