Broncos Junior Development

[Huge]

Here's the dilemma. Every single year we have a junior team coming through, each team will have at least 4 players who will become nrl standard. They will be there by 20 ...these are just generalisations for the sake of discussion. The problem is once a position is filled in the first grade team there is no need to keep looking for anymore than one or two juniors to replace them. If for example we give someone a 3 year deal then a lot of possible backups will be surplus. You must choose who to keep without knowing what the future holds so you take a punt on one or another.

 

[Allo]

Yes but what has Arrow ever done in his A grade stints? He has played 18 first grade games for us and I would be hard pressed to name something he has done. Did anyone doubt McGuire would be a star at 18 games or Parker for that matter?

He just hasn't impressed like those blokes and neither really have many of our 'junior stars' in recent years. They may be solid, but everyone expects Broncos jersey wearers to be stars, when most of the current ones never will be.

Hard to impress enough to supplant a starter in 10-15 off the bench once every few weeks and one or two starts over Origin when we get beaten by Warriors/Storm etc.

I feel lately there's a hesitance to cop the short-term pain. Wayne knows he's under pressure for a title, especially after '15, so he'll buy first before blooding a rookie that'll need a season or two to get used to playing regular NRL

On a separate but I feel related note, I still think having an actual Broncos reserve grade side (along with the rest of the comp) would help keep the young guys feeling like they're part of the first team. They'll play in the Broncos jersey and everyone (Wayne included, so he can watch every game) will all be in the same place for games.

Maybe I'm a bit naive to think something that simple or superficial would have an effect on whether players stayed or not, but if it were me, I'd like to be known as a Brisbane Bronco, not a Wynnum-Manly, Redcliffe or Souths Logan player.

 

[Jason Simmons]

Hard to impress enough to supplant a starter in 10-15 off the bench once every few weeks and one or two starts over Origin when we get beaten by Warriors/Storm etc.

I feel lately there's a hesitance to cop the short-term pain. Wayne knows he's under pressure for a title, especially after '15, so he'll buy first before blooding a rookie that'll need a season or two to get used to playing regular NRL

On a separate but I feel related note, I still think having an actual Broncos reserve grade side (along with the rest of the comp) would help keep the young guys feeling like they're part of the first team. They'll play in the Broncos jersey and everyone (Wayne included, so he can watch every game) will all be in the same place for games.

Maybe I'm a bit naive to think something that simple or superficial would have an effect on whether players stayed or not, but if it were me, I'd like to be known as a Brisbane Bronco, not a Wynnum-Manly, Redcliffe or Souths Logan player.

It is hard to impress I agree, but that is the nature of A grade. We have gone on for years about the quality of our backrow options and now everyone is butthurt that we are losing a few of them., for lack of opportunity? Well what do we expect when we have that quality, and quality like Oates waiting literally 'in the wings'.

We have a starting pack that has internationals in every almost position apart from McCullough and on a weekly basis the opportunities are through injuries and 3 of the 4 bench spots, that is the nature of trying to play at a top club.

Losing Arrow is unfortunate but we are gaining good forwards at the same time, let's not look past that.

 

[Harry Sack]

Hard to impress enough to supplant a starter in 10-15 off the bench once every few weeks and one or two starts over Origin when we get beaten by Warriors/Storm etc.

I feel lately there's a hesitance to cop the short-term pain. Wayne knows he's under pressure for a title, especially after '15, so he'll buy first before blooding a rookie that'll need a season or two to get used to playing regular NRL

On a separate but I feel related note, I still think having an actual Broncos reserve grade side (along with the rest of the comp) would help keep the young guys feeling like they're part of the first team. They'll play in the Broncos jersey and everyone (Wayne included, so he can watch every game) will all be in the same place for games.

Maybe I'm a bit naive to think something that simple or superficial would have an effect on whether players stayed or not, but if it were me, I'd like to be known as a Brisbane Bronco, not a Wynnum-Manly, Redcliffe or Souths Logan player.

Been saying that for years. I wish they'd bring it back although I think money is a factor? Plus it would take away from the QRL sides etc.

 

[BroncsFan]

Yes but what has Arrow ever done in his A grade stints? He has played 18 first grade games for us and I would be hard pressed to name something he has done. Did anyone doubt McGuire would be a star at 18 games or Parker for that matter?

He just hasn't impressed like those blokes and neither really have many of our 'junior stars' in recent years. They may be solid, but everyone expects Broncos jersey wearers to be stars, when most of the current ones never will be.

You must have a serious eye for talent to write off a guy who's played 18 games at about 15-20 mins a game.

FWIW Parker and McGuire both played their early years at prop, likely getting 40 mins a game. I'd consider Parker to be serviceable at prop in his early years as well before moving to second row and getting 80 mins a game

 

[Allo]

Been saying that for years. I wish they'd bring it back although I think money is a factor? Plus it would take away from the QRL sides etc.

Yeah I know that's half the reason they killed the 20's - too expensive to fly the kids everywhere. But also I think their draw could be very different at times. Ideally the draws would be identical so you just have the extra team + specialist coaching staff hotel-ing and flying. I know some clubs struggle to afford things as is, but the NRL has many many dollars. Even if they did one or two seasons to see how viable it is with subsidising etc. Also surely Fox needs some actual football to put on their fancy channel. I think they'd be amazed how many people would watch the reserves if they showed them. More fans identify with Parra than Wenty etc. so more fans would watch overall I'd assume because it's their club still.

Also yes the impact on the ISC clubs would be pretty big, and it'd probably kill off the comp to a degree - perhaps a promotion/relegation system tied into the BRL for the SEQ clubs? I dunno how/if that could work but I still think reserve grade should come back properly.

 

[Jason Simmons]

You must have a serious eye for talent to write off a guy who's played 18 games at about 15-20 mins a game.

FWIW Parker and McGuire both played their early years at prop, likely getting 40 mins a game. I'd consider Parker to be serviceable at prop in his early years as well before moving to second row and getting 80 mins a game

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is we only have a squad of 25 now, perhaps 30 in years to come and only so many spots we can provide to players to help them progress their careers. Do I think Arrow is the biggest loss we've ever had? Not by a long shot.

So who would you lose in order to keep Arrow? Because that is the choice that often has to be made. Regardless of many opinions to the contrary, we do actually have a salary cap...

 

[Splinter]

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is we only have a squad of 25 now, perhaps 30 in years to come and only so many spots we can provide to players to help them progress their careers. Do I think Arrow is the biggest loss we've ever had? Not by a long shot.

So who would you lose in order to keep Arrow? Because that is the choice that often has to be made. Regardless of many opinions to the contrary, we do actually have a salary cap...

That's too easy. Sims, he wont be half the player Arrow will be. But we could be letting Arrow go to bring through Carrigan

 

[Alec]

Yeah, I'm not rating Sims too highly myself either. He can't seem to play more than 10 or so minutes of good footy, it's like he burns out afterwards.

 

[winslow_wong]

Yeah, I'm not rating Sims too highly myself either. He can't seem to play more than 10 or so minutes of good footy, it's like he burns out afterwards.

He should be full time bench player.

 

[BroncsFan]

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is we only have a squad of 25 now, perhaps 30 in years to come and only so many spots we can provide to players to help them progress their careers. Do I think Arrow is the biggest loss we've ever had? Not by a long shot.

So who would you lose in order to keep Arrow? Because that is the choice that often has to be made. Regardless of many opinions to the contrary, we do actually have a salary cap...

If you will remember I was using Arrow as an example of the current state of our recruitment i.e. a junior brought through the ranks but has been shafted because we've bought outside our system and he doesn't have a pathway.

What I want to know is what is our actual recruitment plan?? We seem to be a scatter gun approach in the market. Spending large money on Bird, but no one knows where he fits into the squad.

Not signing any halfbacks at all, not just top line players but juniors from other clubs as well. We have a hole there.

Letting juniors go and signing depth guys from other squads rather than bringing ours through.

Is it because our junior recruitment and retention is shithouse and they can't identify a talent?? We've been screaming for outside backs for years but for some reason none of our juniors make the grade whilst clubs have 20's wingers coming in every year. I'm not counting Oates who is a second rower and was put on the wing due to an absolute wasteland of wingers at the club.

FWIW I don't want Lodge coming. He will be straight out the door the second a Sydney team comes knocking... and I would prefer we focus on bringing Joffa and Fai through instead

 

[Jason Simmons]

If you will remember I was using Arrow as an example of the current state of our recruitment i.e. a junior brought through the ranks but has been shafted because we've bought outside our system and he doesn't have a pathway.

What I want to know is what is our actual recruitment plan?? We seem to be a scatter gun approach in the market. Spending large money on Bird, but no one knows where he fits into the squad.

Not signing any halfbacks at all, not just top line players but juniors from other clubs as well. We have a hole there.

Letting juniors go and signing depth guys from other squads rather than bringing ours through.

Is it because our junior recruitment and retention is shithouse and they can't identify a talent?? We've been screaming for outside backs for years but for some reason none of our juniors make the grade whilst clubs have 20's wingers coming in every year. I'm not counting Oates who is a second rower and was put on the wing due to an absolute wasteland of wingers at the club.

FWIW I don't want Lodge coming. He will be straight out the door the second a Sydney team comes knocking... and I would prefer we focus on bringing Joffa and Fai through instead

He hasn't been shafted. He didn't impress enough during the pre-season to dislodge McGuire if you recall and the reason McGuire was placed there was to allow Ese'Ese to start in the front row.

On one hand the whinge is our pack is too small, so we add size into the front row and use McGuire at lock and on the other we are 'shafting' developing players?

Sorry that doesn't wash with me. How many seasons are we supposed to allow to go to waste while we develop these players? Because that is exactly what will happen under such a plan.

The only way that Arrow gets a sustained period in the starting team is if we don't start Ese'Ese at prop, leaving McGuire there. So in effect you are putting one development player ahead of the other. If that means he wants to leave the club, rather than stay and fight for a position that WILL be coming up in years to come with both Thaiday, Blair and possibly Glenn likely gone within a couple of seasons? Well is that the sort we want at the club?

As for your other comments, we put plenty of faith into developmental players, Ben Hunt springs to mind... Unfortunately he has chosen to leave the club anyway and definitely leaving us in a bit of hole halfback-wise. Why haven't we bought one? Well, who exactly? Who is available to buy and who is good enough to satisfy us all? It seems there is a fair degree of unrealistic expectations on this forum and apparently the next JT can be brought into our squad, perform brilliantly immediately and only cost us $80k a year. Sounds great, so who is he, where is he, why hasn't some other club snapped him up already and why is he available so cheaply?

FWIW, I see infinitely greater upside in Lodge (and obviously - downsides too) than either Fai or Offa. I firmly believe Lodge will be an Origin player and if he remains on the straight and narrow quite possibly an Australian player too. Can't say the same for the other guys no matter how much development they might get and I'm starting to get the feeling Wayne might be feeling the same way...

As for Bird I'm starting to get a fairly strong sense of deja vu here, seeing many similarities to when Bennett announced he was bringing Blair, Boyd and Marshall here...

Perhaps, just perhaps he knows what he is doing and knows exactly how he is going to use Bird?

 

[Kyall]

I never seen a spot in the side for Arrow except Lock and I agree with Bennett about moving McGuire to lock. In the modern day and future it's about size up front and McGuire is too small for prop.

 

[Morkel]

I never seen a spot in the side for Arrow except Lock and I agree with Bennett about moving McGuire to lock. In the modern day and future it's about size up front and McGuire is too small for prop.

Why does this fallacy keep popping up???

 

[BroncsFan]

He hasn't been shafted. He didn't impress enough during the pre-season to dislodge McGuire if you recall and the reason McGuire was placed there was to allow Ese'Ese to start in the front row.

On one hand the whinge is our pack is too small, so we add size into the front row and use McGuire at lock and on the other we are 'shafting' developing players?

Sorry that doesn't wash with me. How many seasons are we supposed to allow to go to waste while we develop these players? Because that is exactly what will happen under such a plan.

The only way that Arrow gets a sustained period in the starting team is if we don't start Ese'Ese at prop, leaving McGuire there. So in effect you are putting one development player ahead of the other. If that means he wants to leave the club, rather than stay and fight for a position that WILL be coming up in years to come with both Thaiday, Blair and possibly Glenn likely gone within a couple of seasons? Well is that the sort we want at the club?

As for your other comments, we put plenty of faith into developmental players, Ben Hunt springs to mind... Unfortunately he has chosen to leave the club anyway and definitely leaving us in a bit of hole halfback-wise. Why haven't we bought one? Well, who exactly? Who is available to buy and who is good enough to satisfy us all? It seems there is a fair degree of unrealistic expectations on this forum and apparently the next JT can be brought into our squad, perform brilliantly immediately and only cost us $80k a year. Sounds great, so who is he, where is he, why hasn't some other club snapped him up already and why is he available so cheaply?

FWIW, I see infinitely greater upside in Lodge (and obviously - downsides too) than either Fai or Offa. I firmly believe Lodge will be an Origin player and if he remains on the straight and narrow quite possibly an Australian player too. Can't say the same for the other guys no matter how much development they might get and I'm starting to get the feeling Wayne might be feeling the same way...

As for Bird I'm starting to get a fairly strong sense of deja vu here, seeing many similarities to when Bennett announced he was bringing Blair, Boyd and Marshall here...

Perhaps, just perhaps he knows what he is doing and knows exactly how he is going to use Bird?

You're delving too deeply into the specifics that I'm raising when my original point is about broncos seemingly having to depend on market availability rather than development of our own juniors.

Looking at the 2006 premiership team every one of those players debuted with the broncos. Looking at today's team I can see a far greater portion of bought players and in my opinion bought players are much harder to retain (Moga, Ese and Roberts from this year alone) compared to a junior in Sam who has turned down larger offers to stay.

Is our apparent dependence on the market due to Wayne having no faith in the juniors, our junior recruitment guys bringing in a horrible bunch or broncos changing their overall strategy to buy over develop?

As a member I love seeing a broncos team full of juniors and one club players over a group of ring ins and significant turnover of the roster

 

[Foordy]

I never seen a spot in the side for Arrow except Lock and I agree with Bennett about moving McGuire to lock. In the modern day and future it's about size up front and McGuire is too small for prop.

McGuire plays exactly the same at Lock than he did at prop

 

[Taylor1921]

Arrow is leaving because Bird has been told he'll be the long term lock.

 

[Renegade]

Looking at the 2006 premiership team every one of those players debuted with the broncos. Looking at today's team I can see a far greater portion of bought players and in my opinion bought players are much harder to retain (Moga, Ese and Roberts from this year alone) compared to a junior in Sam who has turned down larger offers to stay.

Is our apparent dependence on the market due to Wayne having no faith in the juniors, our junior recruitment guys bringing in a horrible bunch or broncos changing their overall strategy to buy over develop?

As a member I love seeing a broncos team full of juniors and one club players over a group of ring ins and significant turnover of the roster

What about the 2015 broncos squad? Out of that team, only Milford and Blair had been purchased, and one was a castaway. Not exactly a bad return either.